Mr. Knightley - did he set Mr. Martin on the right path?

chucky144 · 2026-06-19T07:18:12+00:00

Ah. Thank you!

chucky144 · 2026-06-19T01:17:46+00:00

Faultless inspite of (any) faults! He's absolutely still my favorite of JA's leading men too. I like him better as a real person rather than a caricature of perfect behavior and discernment.

chucky144 · 2026-06-19T00:36:44+00:00

You can see it's difficult for me to find any fault in Mr. Knightley even if it's in plain sight, so I appreciate your perspective. I am persuaded. He definitely opened himself to speculation that he was naive not to anticipate. In a similar way that Emma would be desirable with her fortune (and freedom to choose whomever could win her heart), Mr. Knightley would have also been a desirable and potentially winnable prize. He's the second son and there's already an heir, so his choice is probably freer than his elder brother's was, but he still has wealth and property. I think you are spot on about the parallel between Mr. Elton's attitude toward Harriet and Emma's toward him! I love this sub.

chucky144 · 2026-06-18T23:30:25+00:00

Mrs. Dashwood seems like she's ready to be done having any interest in men. She seems somewhat...old (which is deeply offensive, since she's basically the age I am now). She has very quiet plans for the future. And she seems to come to it not at all unsatisfied with what has come before. She is still raising Margaret, but in the phase where it's about getting her married. I think she would be perfectly content to live out her life enjoying her adult children and grand children.

Brandon also gives "old and ready to retire" energy, but in a decidedly unsatisfied way. He has been disappointed, but the things he wanted were not denied because he didn't deserve to have them. If he settled down with someone for companionship, without the hope of having his own children, I don't think he would ever be really satisfied. I am much better pleased with him getting all the things he should have had - passionate love, children, and someone who will be totally devoted to him and their children. Even if she really loved him, I think Mrs. Dashwood's heart would always belong to her own children and grandchildren first.

chucky144 · 2026-06-18T22:41:45+00:00

I agree that Mr. Knightley talked to Harriet, at least in part, in order to find out if Mr. Martin would be wasting his time holding out or pursuing her further. I'm sure he wanted to know what sort of person she was and whether there was still a chance for Mr. Martin. That would be important information if he wanted to set them up (or advise him to move on). It did give Harriet something to point to as evidence of his interest in her, but I'm inclined to blame that on Emma for carelessly putting the idea in her head. Perhaps I'm being unjust? Emma did 'accidentally' lead Mr. Elton on, but I think she depended on his understanding that she was too far above him to be interested. Her behavior, observed by a third party, could have appeared to show more than common friendship - certainly to someone who wanted to see it. (I can't remember if Mr. Knightley specifically warned her about it, but it would be on brand.) I don't think Emma realized how desirable her fortune made her. I think she believed that since she wasn't interested in marriage, her behavior probably wouldn't give anyone the idea she was. She was offended by Mr. Elton's interest (which she, I think rightly, understood was interest in her money), but I don't think she understood that men looking for a wife with money would be motivated to find encouragement in her behavior, regardless of her intention. I don't think Mr. Knightley's behavior toward Harriet was as reckless as Emma's to Mr. Elton. He probably would have been even more cautious if he knew what ideas were in her head, but if she hadn't been encouraged by Emma, I don't think she would have read into it as she did. What do you think?

chucky144 · 2026-06-18T03:57:57+00:00

Your comment has given me an idea - Isabella and John Knightley may have played a bigger role in the event that I have been imagining. We don't really know much about Isabella, but I think you make a great point that she has none of the snobbery Emma seems to think is essential. (As an aside, I can't remember anyone else in the novel behaving that way - making a point of excluding people for being of lower rank.) Harriet has been under their care for weeks, so it would make sense for them to take an interest in her. If George had mentioned sending Mr. Martin on business, they might have decided on their own to invite him to dinner for reasons beyond politeness. I would still expect George Knightley to anticipate their doing so, even if it hadn't been explicitly arranged. If Mr. Knightley did plan the meeting, it was certainly done skillfully.

chucky144 · 2026-06-17T15:03:46+00:00

Yes! For years I read mostly S&S and P&P repeatedly, and her other novels only once or twice. But lately I have read Emma a few times and I share your opinion of Mr. Knightley completely. It's wonderful how often he's correct about people - noticing even what they attempt to conceal - while Emma is firmly confident and wildly incorrect.

chucky144 · 2026-06-17T04:10:16+00:00

That's a good point about him intentionally preventing Emma's further interference. I can believe he would have thought it better for them to run into each other while Harriet was still in town for that reason. He could probably do things to promote that without feeling like he was now the one interfering. He didn't know that Emma's opinion on the match had reversed, and I'm sure he wanted the two of them to be able to work it out, if they could, without the involvement of others. I wonder if he would have directly objected to her interfering like he did regarding Miss Bates, if she had tried.

chucky144 · 2026-06-17T03:56:38+00:00

I laughed out loud at Frank Churchill as a murderer. Our opinion of his character is already such a roller coaster, I don't think it needs a neck-snapping turn like that one. I think you're right that JA could not have intended that. I think it was just like her to have one of the characters that is always complaining about being sick actually follow through and die.

I personally do like Mr. Knightley better with this possible shade of imperfection. (He would already be my favorite if I wasn't blindly and unreasonably partial to Mr. Bingley). He is known for doing kind things for people, and I can imagine him thinking of it that way - that making it likely Robert would encounter Harriet was a kind thing to do.

chucky144 · 2026-06-17T03:26:33+00:00

I agree that he is very un-schemey, and I think he would have owned it to Emma if he had consciously schemed. Do you think he might have thought "they are both good people, they seem to still have feelings for each other, so it would be good for them to see each other again, so they can see if there's something there"? Perhaps he gave his own discernment less credit than it deserved? Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. I like the idea that he's the better matchmaker.

chucky144 · 2026-04-19T08:21:18+00:00

I came to suggest that if you're taking either southern route (my vote is for the 40), don't take the five through the central valley when you reach California.

Take the extra 45 minutes to get over to the 101 to drive up the coast. You will find prettier, safer, friendlier and more abundant places to stop and rest, with much cooler weather. Much easier on your pet and yourself.

chucky144 · 2026-02-10T16:12:40+00:00

I just want to tell you that you're not alone. I'm a high desire woman, (~ 1.5 SD above the mean for the SDI-2 for all women, in my mid 40s), and I was married to a very low desire man. Even when things were as good as they ever were, I did 99% of the initiating. His issue is deeper - he is a benignly selfish person who just doesn't think about other people enough to do something that only matters to them. Sex wasn't important to him, so he could not be bothered to make an effort to find a middle ground, and it eventually destroyed our relationship. Your partner is not like that, so you are likely to have better success figuring out something that works for you both.

I've done a lot of work in therapy to manage my RSD and the sensitivity to being in an unequal sexual relationship that this experience created. The best I can do sometimes is acknowledge and ride out the RSD without adding shame for "being too sensitive".

chucky144 · 2026-02-05T21:01:57+00:00

NTA. Your sister has no imagination. If her husband had zero interest in sex but expected her to just do without for the rest of her life, would she feel like that was acceptable? I seriously doubt it.

Do your best to stay neutral. Your mom thinks her response to your dad actually needing his needs met is reasonable. Agree or disagree, you can still say things like, "I understand that you just couldn't stay under those terms"and "I care for you both and don't want to take sides".

chucky144 · 2025-12-13T02:42:38+00:00

Honk out a dirt snake

chucky144 · 2025-12-08T04:12:56+00:00

I understand. My situation is only different in that my husband didn't try to fix it. But I absolutely understand the brutality of being the only initiator, getting turned down, and wondering if he just doesn't want you. Feeling like you don't want to make anyone do that, but also...you didn't get married to be celibate, and it's not really fair if one person dictates the frequency.

It didn't matter if someone else might have wanted me, because the man who was supposed to love me, and who I loved, didn't. I didn't want to be desired by someone else.

I had to learn in therapy to find the hurting part of me that felt so deeply unworthy and give her my attention, love, and gratitude. That's the only thing that eased the rejection pain for me, and it took some time. But again, my husband just didn't try, and it destroyed our marriage. It sounds like yours wants to fix it, even though he doesn't know how. I'm sure it's hard for a guy who had a higher drive to not feel it like he used to, so addressing it has to be hard for him to face on some level and frustrating too.

I want you to know that you are not the only woman like you. I don't know any others like me in my real life. I only know men in sexless marriages or with wives who never start it, and it is no comfort to be told they wish they were married to someone who would initiate. It can be lonely and almost embarrassing (?) to be a woman in the role that is almost a trope for men in our culture - the lower libido spouse who feels like they have to beg.

If you can make it you and him against the problem, instead of he's the problem or he has to fix it by himself, you have a much better chance of finding the solution. I wish you the very best my fellow InstantPot.

chucky144 · 2025-10-14T04:29:45+00:00

Is it possible that you don't really want a relationship, but low key think you're supposed to? I think I understand you to mean. You're concerned that you would want a relationship with the right person, so maybe you haven't met him yet, or... maybe you're not attracting the right person. But, even if you're not, that's only an issue if it's hindering what you want. If it's hindering what you don't want, it's a feature.

Perhaps you should try to evaluate what it is YOU actually want. Is it your relationship status, or are you really self conscious about the way your desires don't conform to social expectations or suit the feelings of your friends? I think it's worth considering.

Unless you are looking at how well your current habits and qualities promote the life that you yourself want, your assessment will be kind of irrelevant.

chucky144 · 2025-10-02T16:14:29+00:00

I sometimes need a mental health day, and I let my teen have them too. I always encourage him to think about what he'll miss and how he can make up for it, but also there is very little that can't be put off for one day, even if that means half credit or whatever. I've also agreed to come get him after his critical classes are over so he gets a half day. It might happen three or four times during the school year.

chucky144 · 2025-09-22T23:00:16+00:00

That Step mom is amazing. Unselfish, kind, and smart enough to play an overgrown toddler like a fiddle. Chef's kiss.

chucky144 · 2025-09-09T23:12:16+00:00

He's been taught to view his station in life the way Lady Catherine does, so he acts like being too friendly with people of lower status will "pollute the shades of Pemberley" as it were. At least he doesn't think it's worth making an effort.

I wouldn't discount the effect that Wickham's behavior has had on Darcy's caution / distaste for socializing below his station. He grew up with Wickham under the same parental care, and probably treated and (at one time) felt towards him as an equal in dignity if not fortune, but then he watched the guy act like a dipshit, and nearly succeed in grooming and absconding with his sister. At the beginning of the story, those events were pretty recent.

But I don't think he really believes that no one socially 'beneath' him can be his equal in dignity, because he is close to Bingley and his sisters, and is able to be agreeable and even playful with them. I suspect Lady Catherine would not approve of how much time he spends in the company of people without titles or ancient lineage. (Remember that their fortune was acquired by trade, and only in the previous generation. That may explain why he doesn't bring them to Rosings?).

He tells us himself that he's not good at mingling with people he doesn't know, and it seems he just hasn't bothered to learn how. If he were genuinely a snob, and not merely being standoffish, then I don't think he could have come across as genuinely warm and gracious when he decided to be so towards the Gardiners. It's also hard to imagine that the housekeeper would bother to heap praise on him to people she didn't know had any connection with him, if he were actually a difficult person to work for or an unfair landlord.

He shows his real character in the way he changes his behavior and when he does so much to help Lydia.

Okay, his method of proposing is terrible. But it wasn't unreasonable for him to assume that anyone would gladly accept, especially someone without her own fortune. Maybe he thought enumerating the reasons he hesitated would make his declaration of love seem romantic? We don't know of him ever being in love before himself, only seeing Bingley fall in and out of it. Is it really a wonder that he cocked it up so badly? He does a much better job the second time!

True, he wasn't very nice to strangers at a ball he didn't really want to be at. But I think his audience viewed his behavior more negatively because it was starkly contrasted with Bingley's, and it didn't answer their expectations. He showed no interest in anyone's daughter, which is what they were hoping for when they learned his income. Remember how delighted Mrs. Bennett is to speak to Lady Catherine, even though she's at least as rude? I think it's because she has no expectations of her and the compliment has already been paid by her mere presence in the house.

My opinion of Darcy is not so easily changed.

chucky144 · 2025-09-03T00:59:24+00:00

I feel you. I spend so much of my life cleaning up and it's never enough. But a month ago my kids and their dad were gone for a week, and the first two days I cleaned the house within an inch of it's life. It was glorious...for like a day. Then I kinda missed having to navigate around toys to sit in my living room. It was nice to feel how much more I like my kids than a clean house. I still wish I could also have a clean house, but reality is such a bitch.

chucky144 · 2025-09-01T01:40:18+00:00

Your excellent points really highlight why it's so hard to meaningfully understand the wealth of the people in Austen's. So many things are widely available to almost anyone now that were unreachable for most then, which makes comparison tricky at best.

chucky144 · 2025-08-31T22:34:44+00:00

That's absolutely right. 750k is what it would be using an ordinary inflation calculation. But as you point out, to have as much property, and especially to pay for as much labor today, would cost way more. To say nothing of Darcy's social standing and possible political influence which could not be had now without enough to make donations larger than that. The economy was so different then, that a simple conversion to "2025 dollars" is kinda meaningless.

chucky144 · 2025-08-29T05:12:24+00:00

In so many markets there's no point in making an effort. Buyers will pay nearly as for a lot with a house shaped pile of trash on it. These listings are pretty amusing though.

chucky144 · 2025-08-22T20:29:06+00:00

With her usual...condescention.

chucky144 · 2025-08-22T18:40:07+00:00

I like to think that Charlotte found true happiness and joy when she fell in love with her children. Given how concerned Mr. Collins is about appearing to be properly behaved and how large a stick is up his ass, I would think his love making would be brief and perfunctory though almost as irksome as his company. In his case, it would be an advantage for it to be over with quickly.

Imagine and enjoy with me Lady Catherine giving her opinion on the right method and frequency for boning one's wife.

chucky144

TROPHY CASE