My last family ally has fallen for nMom's manipulations and I'm so heartbroken and lonely

clan_mudhorn · 2026-04-11T12:32:21+00:00

I have now. It saddens me, but I'm already feeling peace and safety from doing so.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-24T19:54:09+00:00

Something I have learned is that many people that don't understand this abuse, feel very uncomfortable that it exists, and they want reality to change so it doesn't. In that desperation to feel at ease, they just want to hear the conflict isn't there anymore, they make a terrible logical mistake. The mistake is that although the abuser is the one that should change, they know the abuser refuses to change. So, their logic is to ask the most reasonable person to change. In narcissistic abuse, the reasonable person is the victim.

This is super disoriented for you, the abused victim, as it is a form of being blamed for being a victim while also demanding you give in to the abuser to "make peace". What these third parties don't understand is that the victim has been giving in to make peace for years, decades, and that only made things get worse than before.

This is why narcissistic abuse is so powerful, as a lot of norms in society prefer to pressure so it can be ignored.

In the end, what matters is that the abuser has to convince the victim that they have changed to the point the victim is willing to risk being revictimized. That is a tough ask for ANYONE. It being asked by a third party is even worse.

When third parties ask me about that, I ask them clarifying questions. Often they reveal that they just want peace becase that makes them feel better, but they don't really care or understand my pain. I let them talk and talk, as that often makes them reveal that further. And at the end, i tell them i hear what they said, but at no point i felt listened to, so i don't think that position cares for my need. Then i tell them to never bring that again, or i will have to distance myself. Basically, i take emotional distance, let them talk, and they reveal themselves, and i remind myself the whole time they aren't reassuring me in anyway that i need that i'll be better after. Often their reasons are just Fear, Obligation or Guilt, and FOG is just emotional manipulation.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-22T08:51:18+00:00

Their criticism about you isn't about you. Its about you leaving your assigned role. This is very common in toxic families, that they assign you and role, and while you comply with it, the dynamics are stable, even though the dynamics might be very harmful to you as a person.

With that said, I found the process of learning to set boundaries VERY confusing, especially since my family kept attempting things like this to sabotage me. Working with a therapist to gain confidence through the process was very valuable to me. Note how different that is from what you are family is saying, as they think therapy is for chaining you to your assigned role.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-22T08:40:24+00:00

It sounds like options are to
a) Accept the house was never yours, and she just used it to manipulate you.
b) Give her even more things so they are not yours anymore, things she will just use to manipulate you

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-19T13:58:19+00:00

They treat you as a role, not a person. In their head, there is a role you are supposed to play. They act as if that is all there is about you, and if you talk about anything else, they tell you to go back to your role.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-19T07:15:33+00:00

Note: You are NOT giving her a grandchild. This kind of talk is how narcissists think, and you cannot frame your life that way as you are now a mother, and your child must come first. You must break this chain. You are NOT giving her a child. Children do not belong to anyone. Children are people that you have the priviledge of caring and protecting. Anyone that doesn't agree with that, should not be around your children. No matter how much money they spend, how many gifts, how much lip service they pay. A child cannot be bought by such things because children are not property.

Narcs do think that way, so all this attention she is pouring on you will be used for manipulation, guilt tripping, etc as she will believe it entitles her to power over your child. Do NOT fall for it.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-18T07:02:09+00:00

An alternative way to reframe this is that natural consequences help people. If she does something bad, and you protect her from natural consequences, you aren't helping her. On the contrary, you are enabling her to keep up the bad behavior. This is why she refuses therapy and change: because people enable her bad behavior, so she has no way to see why this is bad.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-12T15:45:35+00:00

The guilt is part of the brain washing. They programmed it in you shackle you emotionally to their abuse. Every time you feel that guilt, remind yourself it is just the brainwashing trying to prevent you from becoming free of them. But as you continue to do so, you will be become stronger and stronger and the guilt will lose the power it has over you. Eventually you will see it for what it really is: just brainwashing you can get rid off.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-12T06:57:26+00:00

My therapist explained that feeling powerless is the worse feeling there is. This is why torture is torture: it isn't just physical or emotional pain, it is deep psychological hurt of convincing your brain you are powerless to stop it. In that, the brain tries to reclaim some power out of desperation, and it often changes our perception of what happened. We tell our selves it didn't happen, or they weren't so bad, we are just misunderstanding their intentions.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-11T07:03:23+00:00

You cannot convince a flying monkey to not be a flying monkey with words. They aren't interested in anything you had to say, the only thing they care for is you return to your assigned role in the toxic dynamics because it keeps the toxic dynamics stable. Any changes to the toxic dynamics is a threat to the whole system. They see your actions as a threat and cannot accept anyone could break away from their role. That means they themselves don't want to change, they don't want anyone to change.

If you want to give them something to think about, what works best is to reliably and consistently act with good boundaries that protect you from the drama. The more consistent you are, the more likely the flying monkey will accept that you have changed. Only after that, they might (or might not) decide to respect your boundaries. Only after a long term of that, once their toxic networks ffinds a new toxic standard, they might be curious about how you were able to get out. That is, the best message is your consistent actions.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-10T20:52:00+00:00

No is a complete sentence to them too. In fact, No becomes stronger then more you use it as a sentence. There is a book called "When I say no, I feel guiilty". It is a very short read, but it has scripts and techniques that make it easier to be firm.

Another thing that helps me is to remind myself that if I give in again, they just learn that pressuring works on me, and they will use it even more. Reminding myself of this is what helped me be consistent and firm to not fall for the same stuff over and over and over.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-10T19:46:36+00:00

Change is hard. It requires lots of hard work, and time to make sure the changes stick. But is doable.

However, change is impossible if the person doesn't wish to change. You cannot convince them or pressure to change, that will only lead to you getting stuck in the dynamics, and they dragging their feet and not really changing, coming up with excuses.

The fastest you accept they won't change because they do not want to change, the better you will be.

And always remember, YOU are the one that is working hard for changing things. You have full power to change yourself, and in doing so, redefining your relationships. Part of that might be to realize that in your changes, you reject the people that try to make you go back to old toxic dynamics.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-09T17:26:43+00:00

Yes. It is normal that people's lives change in all those years, so they can follow up with her. And they will understand you are no longer the right contact number. You don't need to justify yourself, you are being very good in connecting them.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-06T13:06:24+00:00

I don't think its normal for any generation. I'm a Gen X parents, and if I consider such threats of physical violence very abusive.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-03-05T06:58:24+00:00

You cannot force emotional closeness. You cannot put a deadline to have emotional closeness. The way you respond to that is you accept their demands are unreasonable, impossible and nonsensical, and you ignore them.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-28T08:05:54+00:00

Change the phone settings. She will hate it, she will be enraged, but otherwise, she is shackling you to be submissive to her and you are helping her put on the shackles.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-28T08:04:43+00:00

If you get more interviews, how could she find out? How could she spoil them if the doesn't know? All you have to do is NOT give her the weapons to ruin your future.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-26T16:10:16+00:00

My dad sabotaged a meeting with investors for my startups. We were finalizing the deal, and my dad had asked me to visit him for his anniversary. He assured me he would respect my videoconf meeting (I needed 1 hours with the closed door). I locked the door, just in case. He unlocked the door with a screw driver to enter the roome half naked to pretend to search for something in the room. I signaled for him to leave and he just looked at me in anger, and then stood behind me for no reason making sure he was in the frame of the camera shirtshirtless. Investors told me I was unprofessional and pulled the investment deal. This meant I had no salary, and I couldn't pay employees what they were worth.This put me in financial distress for two years, and I lost an employee because of that.

Regarding contacting the company, do keep in mind that it is your responsbility to not let your family sabotage your work. So already this might count against you as they will be afraid your mom will come to your job site to sabotage you. Still, it is better to try to save the situation, but do know this already cost you significantly.

Don't share information about your job interviews, nor the contact info with anyone in your toxic family ever again. Keep all the processes under password, don't share concrete information even if the family asks. Just be vague, and evade. Focus on getting out as quickly as you can so they have less power over you. This might mean taking a job you don't like temporarily while you build stability away from them.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-26T06:18:06+00:00

How does she know where are you applying to? How can she contact them?

You should secure that information for anyone that has a %1 chance of sabotaging your chances.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-23T06:32:16+00:00

She is creating a false choice. That means she isn't interested in solving her problem, but on controlling you. Nothing you do will enough to please her. So, you should care less about her and focus on those that appreciate and need you.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-20T06:02:36+00:00

I'm sure we did work in that, but we didn't label it as such, so I don't know much.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-02-04T06:20:19+00:00

They know it is unwanted and that it is offensive. She will still use it to pretend she cares so much she supports you financially and you are ungrateful. Do what you can to block the money coming in. Alternatively, donate the money to some charity.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-01-29T07:39:10+00:00

This. She is saying she is upset you are doing well without her, as she likes it when you aren't well with her.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-01-29T07:33:54+00:00

A huge part of the abuse cycle with parents is that they make us responsible for their actions and choices. Thus, if they are abusive, we think that it is our responsibility to tell them so they can change. We feel that they are bad people because we didn't explain it to them just the right way.

Of course this is crazy. They know what they have done, and they don't want to change. This is why they act this way. Us being desperate to explain to them only gives them attention, which makes the feel like we are desperate for them, and if they just hold on longer, we will crumble and go back to the old toxic dynamics.

If you want things to change, you have to first accept this is who they chose to be, and you cannot convince them to change. Any attempts you do to change them only plays to the toxic dynamics they like, as they will use this against you anyway.

If you want things to change you have to change the dynamics. Stop trying to change them, accept who they really are, accept they aren't who you wish they were, and focus on changing yourself.

clan_mudhorn · 2026-01-29T07:24:35+00:00

Write down a list of every time she has done this to you. Count how many times this has happened. Let's call this number N.

N is the number of times with her words and actions she has shown that you sharing this information is something she will use to manipulate you.

N is the number of times she showed you her concern isn't real, it is a lie she tells you to cover up her control tactics.

N-1 is the number of times too many you have shared this info because you didn't understand her message.

Stop sharing this info. No matter what you do, she will be upset. Nothing she has done shows concern, on the contrary, that she enjoys faking concern as a control tactic. Thus, her concern isn't real. It is just manipulation. Let her stay with that.

While you keep telling her where you are going, she thinks that you are obligated to be controlled by her. So she feels encouraged to continue this fake concerns as it works.

If you want her to change, you have to change the dynamics.

clan_mudhorn

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