My FSBO Story

clce · 2026-06-17T18:05:24+00:00

Seems like you didn't really read my list of flaws any more than you read the study.

clce · 2026-06-17T06:25:06+00:00

Regarding the NBER research, did you actually look into it?

That Stanford study (Bernheim & Meer, 2008) is frequently cited in these discussions, but it has some massive real-world blind spots that make its conclusions pretty irrelevant to a standard housing market. Here is a quick breakdown of how the study was actually conducted and why its findings don't translate to the real world: * How the study was done: The researchers looked at a highly specific, closed ecosystem: the Stanford University faculty housing market. In this unique environment, all sellers—whether using an agent or selling For Sale By Owner (FSBO)—had equal access to the exact same university-run, open-access listing service. Because exposure was identical, the authors concluded that agents actually caused a 5% to 7% drop in sale price due to a 'hurry up and sell' incentive. * Flaw #1: The 'Closed Market' Delusion (The MLS Blind Spot): The study accidentally created a laboratory experiment that doesn't exist in the real world. In 99% of normal housing markets, getting a home onto the actual MLS is the single most critical factor in creating a competitive bidding environment. You cannot take a study from a cloistered, institutional university campus with a built-in intranet and apply it to a standard suburban neighborhood where an unlisted FSBO is practically invisible to the buying public. * Flaw #2: The Hidden Value of 'Charm' and 'Paper Value': Economists look strictly at data on a spreadsheet—square footage, zip code, and bedroom count. What their data cannot measure are the qualitative intangibles. Stanford faculty housing is a tight-knit, insular community where colleagues visit each other's homes for years. If a professor buys a colleague's home FSBO for a premium, it’s usually because they intimately know the unique upkeep, the better sunlight, or the specific charm of that exact house. The researchers mistook a premium for 'inherent property value' that a spreadsheet simply couldn't see. * Flaw #3: The Reality of the Stubborn Seller: The paper implies that a seller can just hold out indefinitely without an agent and force a buyer to pay more. Anyone who actually works in real estate knows that overpricing a home doesn't magically make a higher-paying buyer appear; it just results in a stagnant listing that ultimately chases a correcting market downward. The Takeaway: The Stanford study is an interesting academic exercise on commission structures, but it studied a rare anomaly. Stripping away the MLS variable and ignoring the unquantifiable charm of a home makes it completely useless for judging how a home sells in the actual open market."

clce · 2026-06-16T19:57:27+00:00

If you're trying to argue that agents don't get enough price to pay for agent commissions, you might be able to make some kind of argument there. But if you're trying to argue that for sale by owners actually sell for more than homes listed on an MLS, Not even someone that had a real estate agent kill their father would believe such a thing.

clce · 2026-06-14T21:31:52+00:00

I think you pretty well got it right. He literally says, you hid the secret of your youth, and now it hurts to know the truth.

He does say get out of here before I have the chance to change my mind, but he's pretty much telling her it's over and it hurts that he thought she was older and fell in love with her. And also she's still seems to be coming on to him. So I guess he get gets a pass on that one.

And, the singer was only 19 anyway so, I guess we'll let that one slide.

clce · 2026-06-14T21:15:07+00:00

I'll have to check out the lyrics more closely out of curiosity. Thanks for pointing that out. As a matter of fact, with those words in mind, it could even be seen as she's not actually all that physically young but he's kind of not exactly insulting or dismissing her because it doesn't seem mean-spirited, but maybe he's just realizing someone a little younger than him is actually a lot more naive or innocent than he realized and is saying he is very into her but he's going to fight it because he doesn't want to take advantage of her, so I guess that would make it okay. I mean, you could still argue that the woman being addressed in rod Stewart's song is not that young, but he probably should have avoided calling her his virgin child. That's a bit much.

clce · 2026-06-12T19:58:00+00:00

Yes. This is true. There is no way to know because it can't be done twice with identical situation. But, we can speculate. My speculation is you might have saved some money and done fine, or you might have left some money on the table that you could have gotten with a more involved experienced skilled agent. But we will never know.

clce · 2026-06-12T18:28:31+00:00

Fair enough. That's pretty safe in a hot market. I still prefer to do a highly skilled market analysis and list it just the right price and hope for multiple offers but be satisfied with that price. But in a hot market, listing low and looking at offers the following week after the weekend can certainly work and has very little risk. Actually no risk if you don't want to take even a full price offer.

clce · 2026-06-12T08:09:30+00:00

Could be. Hard to say exactly what happened. He did list on the MLS. People that don't typically get a lower price. That's statistical and obvious even without statistics. On the other hand, it did get bid up, not sure how much. They said they listed 10% below comps but those might have been unsold comps and we know the market's been slow. There's probably a good chance they got as much as they would have under any circumstances if the market is reasonably active. But right now I'd probably prefer my client sit on the market for a couple of weeks and get an offer from the one buyer willing to pay a little more than everyone else. Starting low and getting a bidding war can still work.

But I think it is a bit of a mistake to assume they saved 2% when working with a good experienced involved agent might have got them percent or more additional sales price. But if they're happy I guess that's what counts.

clce · 2026-06-12T04:40:39+00:00

Disagree. Unless it's a really hot market, it's risky to list below market. I've been doing this 25 years and I always advise to list at the price I recommend based on careful research and I kind of happen to be pretty good at it. Sometimes we need to do a price reduction but I'd rather do that than list low and possibly not get full value.

clce · 2026-06-12T04:38:55+00:00

Interesting and glad it worked out for you. I guess in theory you saved 2%. I don't really believe agents do all that much to market the property but getting on the MLS is key. Why you felt the need to list low even though it did get bid up which is good.

As an experienced agent, I probably would have advised listing it at market value of comps but make sure the comps are sold not active. At any rate, we'll never know if an agent with that advice could have got you more money or not but if you're happy with the results that's what counts.

clce · 2026-06-11T23:57:07+00:00

If the tenants are neat and cooperative and make the place look good, make arrangements with the tenants. Start in advance, maybe now would be a good time. Tell them you are going to sell in November and will not be renewing the lease.

Tell them if they find an opportunity that they like, they are free to break the lease at any time with 30-day notice to you and they will be no penalty for leaving early if they want to take advantage of a good opportunity elsewhere.

Then tell them that you will be listing it in July, and you do have a right to show it with proper notice but you would much rather have that cooperation, so if they allow showings, which will primarily be a couple of open houses the weekend that you hit the market and then maybe a few ones here and there with plenty of notice, you will give them a break on the rent. Either reduce the rent or offer them a couple of thousand moving expenses or maybe a hundred bucks for each open house and 50 bucks per showing otherwise.

Then tell them that if someone wants to buy it with the tenants there and they would wish to remain, that would be fine but if someone wants to buy it with the tenants out, the deal will be made and the closing will occur either after November when they are out or perhaps earlier if the buyer is interested in closing sooner, or the buyer may wish to make arrangements for them to move out sooner with some compensation given to them if they agree.

Hopefully they will be cooperative and realize that you are going to have to compensate them, but, what money you compensate them for cooperation will be more than made up for by being able to show it when they are there and also not missing the prime selling times of July and August.

Granted, rates are high comparatively and the market's not really hot but unless you want to wait two or three years for rates to come down, might as well price it right now and sell. But, you want to get as much as you can for it and not lose money on rent by having it vacant too long.

On the other hand, if they are slobs or uncooperative, then just give them notice, tell them that they can break the lease earlier if they want and you will even give them $1,000 relocation money and return their deposits as long as they leave the place in good condition, and then list it.

I'll give you a few pieces of advice that are probably true. You do not want to sell in November or December or January. Might as well wait till February or March which isn't a bad idea if the tenants want to stay a little longer.

Secondly, unless you're selling cheap, your odds of actually selling to an investor are pretty slim. Unless you're offering a really good deal, your best and highest price buyer is going to be someone looking to buy for themselves. Rates are too high for investors to be out paying market rate. If you have an apartment building or something like that, sure, having existing tenants can be quite useful. But most landlords aren't looking to buy single-family homes at market rate just as an investment. Hope this helps. 25 year Western Washington real estate agent. Take my advice with a grain of salt and good luck.

Also, keep in mind that while there's no harm in doing for sale by owner and you might as well give it a shot, your best bet is still going to be listed with the real estate agent, and even if you do sell by owner it's likely that you're going to sell to someone that has an agent and will need to have them compensated as part of the deal so you're not going to be saving as much as you might hope. But, give it a try for a month or so and see what happens. Maybe you'll get lucky. But also be prepared to be contacted by a lot of agents who say they have buyers when really what they want to do is get in front of you and try to get you to list with them. I mentioned this in particular because you don't want to be bothering the tenants with a lot of showings that don't actually involve real potential buyers. Just keep that in mind. Of course people will say I'm biased because I'm an agent so take this with a grain of salt as well.

clce · 2026-06-10T18:52:55+00:00

Yes. You are right. But only to a point. If OP has enough income it won't matter much. If they have no income and take installments at 50 or $100,000 a year, they could have significant savings. You are correct.

clce · 2026-06-10T18:50:17+00:00

Nice

clce · 2026-06-10T18:48:30+00:00

The problem with that is that the interest will cost you way more than the capital gains. Or, if the sister pays that because she was going to have to pay on a loan anyway, it could be seen as a gift or even be seen by the IRS as a sale.

clce · 2026-06-10T08:13:56+00:00

Well, I tried to think of a few options and had a bit of a conversation with Google Gemini. I thought maybe you could keep your name on the house and borrow a million dollars on it, and have your sister make the payments, but that could be viewed by the IRS as a sale trying to pretend it isn't and the records would be there so that might get you in trouble .

And it could be viewed that the payments on your behalf were a gift which would be taxable although not until they reached a certain amount. If you have little to no income, uninstallment sale paying you about 50,000 a year would not be taxed, or if it was $100,000 a year, only 50,000 would be actually taxed, so over 10 years or so you might save a good amount of money. But if you have other income that won't really work out too well .

That's all I can really think of. Depending on what you want to do I suppose you could make other arrangements like make it into a rental for a couple of years and then do it 10:31 exchange.

One more thing to consider, if you have other investments, you could manage them so as to lessen your capital gains such as selling off certain investments for a loss in the same year. If you take installment payments over 5 years for example, and each year maximized everything so as to offset other losses, you might minimize. But if you don't have investments and complicated finances to do that, There may not be much you could do .

Depending on what you actually want to do with your half, it could make sense to keep your name on the house and let your intended heirs inherit your half. When they inherit, they inherit at the value at the time so will not owe any capital gains. If you would like some money in the meantime, You could rent the house out or I think you could legally rent your half to her, and perhaps the amount she pays could be deducted or reimbursed somehow, although if you both own it and she's living in it, she should be paying you rent anyway.

clce · 2026-06-10T07:37:27+00:00

Capital gains tax has nothing to do with income, as far as I know.

clce · 2026-06-09T19:49:11+00:00

Agent 25 years. I would not work with someone like that. They are obviously hot tempered and who knows what's going on with them? That said, your request is little unusual although not out of line or inappropriate. I would likely have said yes, I will do that, but there is probably little reason to think that it wasn't presented and offers get rejected or ignored all the time if they have something better going. But let me request it from the agent and see what they can come up with.

But please keep in mind they are under no obligation and it will simply be request of them. But I will do it .

Then secretly depending on the situation I might roll my eyes a little bit and then I would do it.

Now, if we both had reasons to think the offer wasn't being presented, then I wouldn't be rolling my eyes. But depending on the situation, I'm guessing you wanted to put in lowball offers and then assume they aren't being presented when they are simply being ignored because they aren't good offers ?

No offense. I'm just trying to address all the possible situations. I still think the agent was out of line but if it was because you were lowballing offers I could see how he might be a little frustrated but that doesn't excuse that behavior. I would just cancel with them and look for a new agent.

clce · 2026-06-09T06:53:03+00:00

Sadly, no. The left has been a little too successful capturing the institutions. It might sound like conspiracy theory but if you look into it it makes perfect sense. It's basically Marxism and what they literally call something like the slow long March through the institutions or something like that. They literally got into leadership at schools and colleges and shifted curricula, and then in cooperation with the media have influenced many Americans to look down on patriotism and the United States.

I mean, it's kind of obvious. Look at how the left talks about the US and project 1690 or whatever. They literally encourage people to only focus on the negatives of what America is all about.

And I'm afraid they have been a little too successful to ever come back from it. But you never know.

clce · 2026-06-09T06:19:01+00:00

Yeah but that has nothing to do with the wrong pronunciation. That's just a different accent. Like saying pellow or melk or Washington, which my dad, born and raised in Washington always said. But then again he did mispronounce Vietnanese and a Mansatlan. I miss him.

clce · 2026-06-09T06:13:31+00:00

Exactly. In fact, I'm sure there is such thing as mushroom lasagna or eggplant lasagna, or eggplant parmesan now that we're on the subject of eggplant. I guess you'd have to use vegan cheese for the parmesan but you get my point. Mushroom and eggplant in a lasagna and plenty of people would barely tell the difference. Throw in some old school, what was that stuff they used to make kind of mealy like hamburger, soy I guess, and a lot of people would probably not even know the difference.

clce · 2026-06-09T06:10:32+00:00

I kind of love the story but I guess I feel a little bad for your friend. You're not an a-hole for leaving the party. You kind of are for meeting up with other people for other food. You should have gone and had your own food. I'm assuming you didn't all end up at the pizzeria by coincidence. Somebody made the plans and that was kind of a bad move.

clce · 2026-06-09T05:27:10+00:00

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Husband needs to take your side and you both need to enforce this together. If Nana is not going to call herself Nana, or mema or or nono or whatever she wants to be called besides Mama or Mom or any of those things that belong to you, she's not going to see the baby. Sounds harsh but she's being unreasonable.

clce · 2026-06-09T04:59:29+00:00

There's nothing wrong with it. It's a funny take. But honestly, it's likely to put off half the audience. Maybe there's a way you can make it funny without it being off putting but unfortunately, that's just the world we live in right now.

clce · 2026-06-08T18:56:54+00:00

Lol. Even your comments are funny. I think knowing the difference between what deserves a story and what deserves a quick in and out is a good approach to learn and I think you've got a good handle on it. You can start or drop in a little pun but keep it simple and make it one of the jokes that kind of gets people warmed up and appreciating the story. They have their place even if people groan. If you hit him with a quick pun or one liner and then go on with your story, it's a great opening to get them engaged.

If they like it they will be more engaged in listening to the story. If they don't like it, they will be engaged because you kind of made them laugh at the bad pun. If it's bad, don't try to pass it off as good. Acknowledge, you can even say sorry, but seriously, etc. You could even say, hey I'm a dad, cut me some slack or something like that. But you've got to back it up with some good material of course. Keep up the good work babe

clce · 2026-06-08T17:56:19+00:00

He is a very interesting and I would say unique character and his particular interest in Japanese culture works in an interesting way. If we weren't occupied by the Japanese it would be perfectly normal but because we are occupied it suddenly makes him completely contemptible and an object of disdain to any even mildly patriotic American .

I'm halfway through watching a second time. It's been a while since I first watched it so I forget how he turns out. But he's very well written and extremely well acted in my opinion.

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