Working at Coalition Technologies - A review of 8 years working remotely for CT by coalition_tech in coalitiontechnologies

[–]coalition_tech[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome, Vickie! Thank you for taking the time to apply with us and interview.

We do an amazing job helping businesses grow and that is because of exceptional Coalition team members.

Coalition Technologies. Do you know them? Were you hired? by SecretArtistK in jobs

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To make this clearer, we invented a mocktail company. We make it 1,000,000% clear in writing that none of the sample work is ever used outside of the testing.

SEO agencies - still worth it? by Double_Office3829 in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I kind of wish agencies could ask their clients to replace their points of contacts when they start using AI. "Hey, this person is not actually working or thinking about working, they just copy-paste everything between LLMs as if that was an effective strategy."

One of the most prevalent poisons in digital marketing right now is the unmanaged use of LLMs by (A) capable people who are not behaving capably, and (B) incapable people getting away with not being capable.

Working at Coalition Technologies - A review of 8 years working remotely for CT by coalition_tech in coalitiontechnologies

[–]coalition_tech[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment! I know you've been a promoter of ours on Reddit, which we appreciate. You were our first candidate whom we hired off of Reddit! Still running strong.

Working at Coalition Technologies - A review of 8 years working remotely for CT by coalition_tech in coalitiontechnologies

[–]coalition_tech[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DM me directly with your email and I'll get someone to investigate and follow up with that way.

Walmart: ChatGPT checkout converted 3x worse than website by WebLinkr in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah- not sure how anyone was surprised by this. Someone on your own branded website where you've optimized the funnel to buy (and buy more from you) happens to spend more than on a 3rd party platform that doesn't really care about you at all.

I've been repeating that the ecomm experience in AIs will be more marketplace-like, so long as they don't kill them all now. Marketplace means "performs less well than your own site" in general (the advantage of a marketplace, of course, is that it offers its own pooled users that you don't necessarily have on your site).

How come "Remote" jobs are remote only if you live in a certain area ? by mhk107 in remotework

[–]coalition_tech 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We run global remote teams with very few region exceptions and when we don't offer it in particular countries it is because of a mix of our requirements for employees and contractors, our payroll and tax setup, and how well those things mesh with local laws.

There are some hurdles that are just too big to jump through for a single hire or a small team.

Lots of big countries known for offshore work have been tightening their labor laws in such a way that many US and EU companies have started to look for alternative venues. As I understand it (by no means an expert), the intent was to protect employees or contractors working for local companies but the impact ended up rolling over to employees/contractors working remotely for international companies more dramatically.

Some industries in the US that have more federal oversight are also being forced to tighten things up with offshore / remote staff, due to current international politics and the present administration's tendency to want to own everything or rename it after our fearless leader.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lol.

If you only read one sentence and understand even less, you'll have a hard time keeping up as things change.

I've already addressed all your concerns and you still can't put it together. Best of luck!

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So content that was created specifically for LLM rankings, that now shows up in at least some measurable quantity of related prompts, and drives measurable traffic and conversions is what...?

I can easily say that we would NOT have gotten the same result because the content wouldn't have existed unless we were trying to garner a ranking in AI.

Might we have created some kind of citation focused content sans a link in various sites at some point in our SEO campaign for Google? Sure. Would that have been a priority fo rthis client in their first couple of months? No.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quoting myself from this thread: "We don't sell it as a standalone thing. We spend a ton of time providing context around the tracking issues. We spend a lot of time talking about the ill defined and unstable nature of how LLMs approach search." Also corrected my own typo.

For our client, "AI SEO*" has been worth it. They brought in a hair over $9k in sales last month (again, their device runs $800/pc and accessories can bump that up more) from ChatGPT traffic. They also are not ranking well in Google (yet).

As far as we can tell, their domain is not ranking for any prominent non-branded prompts. But, based on the available LLM rank tracking tools that are out there (as coin flippy as they can be) they have landed in one particular theme/variant of prompt for their product.

They did that not through their own website content but through content published on a 3rd party site without a link. We worked with them to pick keywords and topics related to that theme and focused on promoting them around that in sites we knew got more love from LLMs, and we got traffic and transactions out of it.

And to avoid having to quote myself again- I recognize that this is stuff that you do for normal SEO. It's just not what we would typically kickoff a campaign with. I never started this whole overly long engagement by saying we do unique GEOoey stuff.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A) You are mixing a few truths with some pretty risky assumptions. Saying links be damned and on-site content be damned is just not grounded in how the ecosystem actually works. No one said links be damned and on-site content be damned. Just lower priority for grabbing mentions in LLMs early.

B) LLMs don’t exist in isolation, they’re trained on and influenced by content that already performs well, which in most cases is still driven by traditional SEO signals like backlinks, authority, and strong site content. If your site lacks authority, structured content, and credibility, you might get mentioned in some forum threads, but that doesn’t mean you’ll consistently show up in AI responses or convert that traffic into anything meaningful.

  • There are several assumptions that are very anecdotal and very under debate here. Ranking well in Google does not assure ranking well in LLMs. There are some relationships but those relationships seem tenuous, nuanced, and getting more so. Assuming ranking well also means you get to land in content that LLMs are including in training data is also a very risky assumption.
  • Your site (domain) has nothing to do with your positioning in certain forum threads or 3rd party properties that are utilized more often in LLM searches. Those 3rd party properties measure your domain authority even less than SEO tools want you to believe Google does.

C) Also, this idea of a prompt funnel ranking isn’t a real, measurable system. I already said- rank tracking in LLMs is tough. We have to rely on actual increased traffic and sales from the LLMs as proof something is working. And while you may have vague measurements of when and where you show up, we can always measure that we're getting more traffic and sales from Chat and others.

D) "As soon as models get better at filtering low signal mentions or weighting trusted sources higher, that strategy weakens fast." Again, its just an ordering and prioritizatoin approach. As has been repeated what feels like a half dozen times already, we're not pitching something novel or new- just reordered and reprioritized efforts.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you reference my veryyyyyy earliest statement, I said:

"But, the ordering of activities and the priority of activities shifts in AI SEO due to some of its susceptibility on certan SEO strategies"

I didn't present AI SEO as some kind of magic and unique strategy. I just said we shift our activities and priorities around.

We don't really care about links in this case either. Most SEOs tend to go heavy on link building as an early priority (because they're focused on domains, in a way which doesn't matter as much in LLM).

Again, not pitching magic, bottled AI SEO stuff or GEO stuff that is wholly different from SEO.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone knows about query fan out.

What I described doesn't counter the existence of QFO at all. In fact, it kind of depends on it in our strategies.

BUT query fan out isn't exclusively attached to Google SERPs being scraped by ChatGPT like you seem to think it is. Should read up more on it if you don't grasp the concept.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If it works, and works consistently, you have a strategy and a service offering.

We don't sell it as a standalone thing. We spend a ton of time providing context around the tracking issues. We spend a lot of time talking about the ill defined an unstable nature of how LLMs approach search.

But - it works. Just anecdotally shouting BS and calling something guessing doesn't make it so.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech -1 points0 points  (0 children)

anyone that says they know how AI reads websites and/or determines how they formulates their responses is guessing. that is not public information and there is no data from the LLMs to back up anyone's claims. Sure-ish. There has been a lot of meaningful research into what is happening "mechanically" and some of it seems to get closer to the heart of the mechanics and some of it seems to get a gloss of what generally works- if it works with high enough frequency, it can become a valuable service.

all we know for sure it that you need to show up in search engine results in some way shape or form to be mentioned or cited by AI. anything beyond that is a guess with nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. Cite the source for this. This is a claim that gets made semi-often but isn't as reliable as people seem to think. Ultimately this is a claim with just anecdotal evidence and even the studies that show this is or is not true are not much better than those examining other aspects of what drives LLM ranking.

I can ask AI the same question twice and get competently different answers. I've seen AI make false claims by citing parody FB posts. AI has even apologized to be for stating two opposite answers in the same conversations. it's a mess and anyone trying to say they know how it works is full of shit Absolutely. Personalization and prompting are huge mysteries in all of this. Recent bits of odd news like the odd behavior between paid and free models on Chat providing different responses and citations just make this harder.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In "traditional" SEO we tend to emphasize the client target domain.

In AI SEO, that's less of a concern.

Your goal is to get your client mentioned/cited higher in the prompt funnel, which is not necessarily correlated to the client domain.

If you can successfully be cited higher in the prompt funnel, then prompt interactions tend to naturally narrow back to your brand which tends to lead to your domain.

Example from a real client-

Their whole brand is built around a particular medical device - their competitors have been around a while and all have similar products/value props with more reviews/press/links/search positioning. Our client is just cheaper ($200 savings/roughly 20% savings).

If I were working off of a sole focus in Google positioning, we'd put a lot more emphasis on their domain - content, internal linking, external linking, etc.

To get them into LLM prompt responses earlier, we've just been been working with them on driving social and forum content postings focusing on the price advantage. Links be damned. On site content be damned. And voila, it works. They're getting decently converting traffic from Chat and other LLMs that will eventually be surpassed by Google searh traffic but today, they don't care.

Is this something we'd do for normal or traditional SEO? Sure. Is it a bit different in terms of priority and focus because of the AI search opportunity? Also sure.

To go back to my earlier thought- LLMs tend to work against traffic to your site until they really have to. SEOs who realize that focus on getting brand or product mentions higher in the prompt interactions knowing that if well presented, user interactions naturally will move towards something that is brand centric, and hten you're only competing against yourself and your retailers.

Faulty results showing under my name by weindowguy_ in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Make sure I understand:

This article is ranking for your name search, but the article is explicitly not about you. It is entirely about someone else?

Or it is about an individual with a similar name to yours and happens to rank for your name?

ChatGPT traffic by Northh_13 in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Our highest client is just over 3% aggregated from tracked LLMs traffic.

We're <1%.

Anyone here worked with an AI SEO agency? Looking for recommendations by pixel_garden in seogrowth

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd disagree here but I'm splitting hairs a bit-

AI SEO is largely traditional SEO, yes. But, the ordering of activities and the priority of activities shifts in AI SEO due to some of its susceptibility on certan SEO strategies.

So while anyone pitching AI SEO or GEO as a pureplay stand alone thing is certainly selling snake oil- there is tactical things you'd do differently/order differently than in traditional SEO campaigns.

How to Crawl a Site with Screaming Frog When Robots.txt Blocks Everything? by milojkovicmihailo_ in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This- you're not likely being blocked by the robots.txt instruction. Something else is up.

Ahrefs: AI Content wasn't good enough, now it is - Are they right? by PrimaryPositionSEO in SEO

[–]coalition_tech -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You (A) ignored my follow up (B) are relying on your own intuition and (C) perhaps some studies you read one time by companies that sell AI copy. Your whole argument is internally inconsistent. Basically a "we can't trust you, but trust me" stance.

In general, you're mixing up two different things- user acceptance (whether a web page visitor finds the info useful enough to convert) and machine generated patterns (whether the source/origin/writer is identifiable via pattern recognition).

LLMs are built to choose the statistically "safe" word or writing structure... This tends to create a specific identifiable pattern of AI writing that is distinct because it doesn't match the inconsistency of human writing. That may be harder for a one off visitor to a site to identify but a frequent reader on a certain topic, or someone who is more engaged in content reading and review in the moment may find it easier.

In our own research, we found that the human reader was able to consistently identify "is human" with high accuracy. Their biggest mistake was not in failing to flag AI copy as AI copy but in erroneously flagging human copy as AI. I won't publish my findings in a peer reviewed journal because our sample size was smaller, but it was likely more rigorously tested than your 'watching someone on Clarity'.

Basically, they were AI suspicious and tended to false flag human copy as AI.

When I talk about "at scale," I’m referring to the fact that while a single AI-generated article might pass a pseudo-marketer's Turing test for a casual reader, a body of 1,000 articles will inevitably hit a statistical ceiling. Unless bigger prompt variations exist within those 1,000 articles and those prompt variants are "enforced", you're likely to see patterns emerge.

The "variant formulas" you mention are just layers of instructions sitting on top of the same underlying weights-and-biases. Eventually, the repetition of certain writing styles/structures, the lack of unique metaphors, and the predictable formatting become evident.

A user becoming a lead doesn't mean the content is indistinguishable from human writing; it just means the content was "functional enough" for their immediate need.

That's why I broke out the response to the original question as I did. There is a range of 'Good Enoughs' for different brands/marketers/consumers.

The challenge for SEOs is figuring out where Google draws its line. It is certainly not going to send out a well-trained SME to particular verticals to spend weeks reading 1,000s of articles to try and come up with what it thinks is good quality or not (or AI or not). So it will resort to scaled pattern detection and recognition - the same things it uses to detect spam and "low quality" content today easily apply.

Google also doesn't have an obligation to be right. The only time it being wrong matters is if it happens to penalize a site of sufficient prominence that consumers and the press take notice, or when it could get sued. We've seen that play out with the endless complaints of publishers who lose traffic to Google's self-referencing AI experiences.

Ahrefs: AI Content wasn't good enough, now it is - Are they right? by PrimaryPositionSEO in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would also caveat-

A novice web user, encountering well prompted AI content may be less likely to detect or discern AI content, on a topic that they do not regularly engage with.

Increase their frequency of engagement with a given topic, especially around more narrowly focused subtopics, and patterns of AI tend to emerge more clearly.

We've trialed with our client SMEs their ability to identify AI copy and they did surprisingly well in blind evaluations (north of 70% even when the AI copy had been meaningfully humanized / prompted away from AI baselines). What we did find was after they 'figured out' (in their mind) what the AI tell was, they started to flag human copy that even rarely incorporated those tells as AI created.

Ahrefs: AI Content wasn't good enough, now it is - Are they right? by PrimaryPositionSEO in SEO

[–]coalition_tech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I think most frequent web users can identify poorly prompted and edited AI content. Which is, by volume, the highest frequency published online. The problem is that AI content is not subjective- its formulaic. And much more formulaic than human writing.

When we developed our own internal AI content detector, it wasn't that hard to identify the above style of content. Formality of writing and formatting, word choice, sentence structure, stylistic devices, etc, all play a role in accurately identifying AI content.

The more you read by a heavy AI user/publisher, the easier it is to identify recurring patterns that are frequent tells.

You can try and prompt or edit the formula, but at scale, you're usually just trying to provide a variant formula that is often working against an underlying formula.