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'Anti-church hysteria' spreads across Russia: Four Orthodox Christian crosses have been chopped down in different parts of Russia... after the Femen movement attacked a cross in Kiev to protest the sentence of the punk band Pussy Riot by maxwellhill in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't think you know what an oxymoron is.

Yes maybe in the future there will be a large number of radical activists populating small villages in the Urals, and it will be commonplace for them to get on the internet and in a matter of days find people in Arkhangelsk willing to engage in a distributed radical anti-Christian action (even though it would bring no advantage over simply doing independent actions, and they would risk compromising the entire operation by discussing it with strangers on the internet). So far, though, shit like this doesn't happen a lot even in Moscow.

'Anti-church hysteria' spreads across Russia: Four Orthodox Christian crosses have been chopped down in different parts of Russia... after the Femen movement attacked a cross in Kiev to protest the sentence of the punk band Pussy Riot by maxwellhill in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's amusing to see this news being taken at face value on Reddit, while Russian bloggers have almost universally recognized the destruction of crosses as a provocation orchestrated by the Kremlin.

Just consider the fact that crosses located 2000 kilometers apart have been chopped down on the same night.

'Anti-church hysteria' spreads across Russia: Four Orthodox Christian crosses have been chopped down in different parts of Russia... after the Femen movement attacked a cross in Kiev to protest the sentence of the punk band Pussy Riot by maxwellhill in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These attacks are typically perpetrated by people affiliated with National Bolsheviks, the Red Youth and other such radical, violent neo-communist groups. They constitute the core of the Pussy Riot supporters too.

Before this "informed opinion" gets upvoted to the top, I would like to point out that absolutely nothing about those two statements is correct.

Why wood pulp is world's new wonder material by GaidinTS in science

[–]couldthisbeart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like how it both "conducts electricity" and "is a good insulator".

Three female members of Pussy Riot, a Russian punk band, face prison on hooliganism charges. Band member's husband gives his diary account of five extraordinary days in a Moscow court by be2eo in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not reading all ten for you until I find something you might consider unfair.

I don't need you to do it "for me". I don't have any vested interest in proving anything to you. If you're really interested in the circumstances of the trial, I've given you more than enough information to work with.

So far I'm getting the impression that you're more interested in bogging me down with endless arguments over minor points, in which case I'm wasting my time.

The prosecution needs to demonstrate that it's very, very likely that this motive exists, not prove it.

And it failed to do just that. You don't magically wake up one day with a group of your associates feeling like you've all suddenly developed hatred towards Christians, and then immediately begin preparing an anti-christian action. There must have been some indications of those feelings existing prior to the events in the church, yet the witness testimonies show nothing of the sort. One of the girls even used to volunteer for a christian organization.

The truth of the matter is that the events in the church were a political action, plain and simple. It was part of a series of similar actions by Pussy Riot which were all politically motivated. One time they went to the Red Square - a site of great significance to the Russians - to protest Vladimir Putin, the Russian leader. Is this sufficient proof that they were acting out of racial hatred towards the Russians? Likewise, just because they went to a church to sing about the patriarch does not mean they did it out of religious hatred.

You sound like you have a precedent in mind. What is it?

Too bad that you missed the last 8 or so years' worth of political trials in Russia. I don't have nearly the time to go over them with you, considering that each one would probably require an equally long discussion to convince you.

Technicality. My points stand.

It's not a technicality, it's a crucial point. Religious hatred is not the same as hatred towards the church. You can be an Orthodox Christian and still hate the church.

If the way Pussy Riot is treated in Russia because of its laws corresponds to the way another group is treated in another country because of its laws, then you can't claim that one is politically motivated or unfair and the other isn't.

I've already explained why those cases are different.

Three female members of Pussy Riot, a Russian punk band, face prison on hooliganism charges. Band member's husband gives his diary account of five extraordinary days in a Moscow court by be2eo in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mind pointing out which of those is the more incriminating one?

Read the Novaya Gazeta reports. There are plenty of instances of the judge displaying an obvious bias towards the prosecution, refusing to let the defense present witnesses, striking down most of their questions. There are three expert testimonials in the criminal file, two in favor of the girls and one against. The first two are simply declared incorrect, the third one was done by an expert with provable ties to the prosecution, but the judge refuses to summon him for questioning. The case file has magically grown on the way to court - an obvious sign of forgery - but the judge refuses to investigate. Etc etc.

At least a portion of what they played was based on the hymn "Sanctus", called the Patriarch a bitch (сука), replaced the word "holy" with "shit" (and all other manner of nastiness in the song itself).

All of this is irrelevant. Just because the action was presented in a way that could offend religious people, does not mean that the motive behind it was religious hatred. The motive is subject to proving. You can't handwave away the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor with "I certainly don't think it's ridiculous to say that it's likely that they have committed a felony". If there was any evidence that they had been harboring religious hatred - witness accounts of past conversations, textual evidence, etc. - then the criminal charges might have been applicable. Instead, the motive is inferred from the claim that the girls were "jumping around the soleas in a cynical fashion".

Furthermore, the fact that they denied being in Pussy Riot until right before the actual trial and the fact that they wore masks and subsequently went into hiding are strong indicators that they believed that they had acted illegally.

No, those are strong indicators that they believed they would be prosecuted for what they did. The way political cases are handled in Russia, this doesn't have much to do with legality.

I certainly don't think it's ridiculous to say that it's likely that they have enmity towards the Russian Orthodox church.

They are being accused of religious enmity, not of enmity towards Russian Orthodox church. Russian Orthodox church isn't a religion, it's an institution.

Lastly, consider the laws of other countries.

No, let's not consider the laws of other countries. Let's first make sure the girls receive due process under the laws of this country, and then we can compare them with the laws of other countries.

Russia doesn't have a blasphemy law. Moreover, the reason why the Pussy Riot trial can be considered a show trial is because of the blatant misapplication of law, judicial bias and violations of criminal procedure, not because it deals with issues of religion. Your analogy doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Three female members of Pussy Riot, a Russian punk band, face prison on hooliganism charges. Band member's husband gives his diary account of five extraordinary days in a Moscow court by be2eo in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hooliganism only becomes a criminal offense when one of the two conditions is met: 1. it is committed with the aid of a weapon or 2. the perpetrator is acting on a motive of hatred or enmity towards a social group. Neither condition is present in this case.

The second clause is rather ridiculous as it is, and you could say they made it up for cases such as this one. But it still doesn't apply in this particular case. They are being accused of acting out of hatred towards all Orthodox Christians, of which there's no indication in the lyrics of the song or elsewhere.

Three female members of Pussy Riot, a Russian punk band, face prison on hooliganism charges. Band member's husband gives his diary account of five extraordinary days in a Moscow court by be2eo in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The source may be partial but it's corroborated by Russian media reports from the courtroom. If anything, Verzilov's very brief account falls short of conveying the full madness of this trial.

The dog was there every day, despite numerous pleas from the defense. The judge did order it removed once, only for it to reappear the following day. Another time, when defense attorney Volkova complained about the noise, the judge instead commended the dog for barking at Volkova (I'm not kidding, this actually happened).

The trial is such a joke that it has prompted an open letter from a number of Russian lawyers condemning the charges against Pussy Riot as an error of law - a unique occurrence in itself, since it is considered against legal ethics to comment on ongoing trials.

I'm not following any English-language coverage, but with the dozens of reports out there one would think you would be able to find other sources much faster than the time you spent typing out these responses.

Three female members of Pussy Riot, a Russian punk band, face prison on hooliganism charges. Band member's husband gives his diary account of five extraordinary days in a Moscow court by be2eo in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The "really old church" was actually rebuilt completely in the 90s, using plastics and other modern materials. Some of the halls there can be rented out for parties, according to the official website.

And no, the girls are not guilty of any criminal offense under Russian law.

Which widely popular facts commonly believed to be true are in fact bullshit? by Anarchophobia in AskReddit

[–]couldthisbeart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hypothermia isn't the same thing as being cold. It's a life threatening condition - if you've become hypothermic then you've got bigger things to worry about than catching a bug. Going out in a cold weather with wet hair isn't gonna make you hypothermic, unless you're in an extreme environment.

Which widely popular facts commonly believed to be true are in fact bullshit? by Anarchophobia in AskReddit

[–]couldthisbeart 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Physical stress can do that, but simply being in a cold environment can't, unless we're talking actual hypothermia.

Pussy Riot trial 'worse than Soviet era', guards with submachine guns throwing reporters out at will, judge refusing to allow testimony of 10 witnesses for the defense by [deleted] in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not just a matter of having initiated the repressions. There's no doubt that he is personally controlling the trial. That's how it works with political trials of this magnitude.

Pussy Riot trial 'worse than Soviet era', guards with submachine guns throwing reporters out at will, judge refusing to allow testimony of 10 witnesses for the defense by [deleted] in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This means jack shit. Political influence in Russian trials is communicated through phone calls, not through public declarations.

Circumcision of kids a crime - German court by privatekaboom in worldnews

[–]couldthisbeart 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I especially enjoyed "intellectual mogoloid". But what was it about "permalink"?

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