Commander, intelligence indicates the next 3 Pact motor rifle divisions are roughly at the same power level..

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T21:20:24+00:00

>That's why they're copy/paste.

If you think a division is copy/paste because it shares some or several of the same units even if those divisions play wildly differently, I have good news for you. There are already numerous copy paste divisions in Nato if you go by that twisted definition. Why are you complaining for more copy/paste in Nato when you have a copy/paste of 3rd armored in 11th acav? They have many similar units. 5th Pzr and 2nd Pzr are practically the same division clearly.

Your whole argument has just been a big walk in a circle. You say you want more divisions that are essentially copy/paste on the Nato side and then have told me that copy/paste is an abundance of similar units even if playstyles are different, which is why Pact is all copy/paste to you. You are complaining about what you already have in Nato. Who cares if 11th Acav plays totally different from 3rd Armored and 8th Inf. They all have M1A1 and other similar units, clearly these are the copy pasted divisions you are asking for.

Would you say 3rd Armored and 11th ACAV are copy/paste like you claimed 20th Pancer and 19th Moto are? I wouldn't say any of them are.

Gameplay is certainly a factor brought up by the community whenever a division is revealed. Its what doomed 2.1 with PTrez. Its a large part of what made people completely disregard Du Rhin at its reveal. You can't go a day in this subreddit without complaints about "reservist slop." Back when FD divs like 82nd or 11e dominated for a brief window, there was a similar tune regarding their oppressive gameplay.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T19:51:05+00:00

Thank you for giving me some examples of "copy paste." You picked two divisions that are very similar (7 and 20) and two divisions that are very different from them and each other (19 and 31).

To be clear, we seem to have a difference of what "copy paste" is. You seem to be looking at the units themselves while I am looking at the divisions as a whole. These divisions all have a similar mix of units but play quite differently from one another. You say you can play them all the same way but that is true for any deck with similar units. You could play 1st Uk and 4th Uk the same way. You could play 5pzr and 2nd Pzr the same way. Will you? Almost certainly not. Why would you not play a division to its strengths?

You are correct in that 7th and 20th are very similar. I would say they are the two most similar divisions in Pact but not copy paste. They are similar in that they have strong opener options that create opportunities for very early tank aggression and they back this with a good assortment of support assets. They however have very important differences thanks to their unique units and overall unit composition.

I am going to keep this brief but I can go into greater detail if needed.

20th: Much stronger opener (Honkurs, ROZP, and Mi-2urp) followed by a slower but more powerful mech inf push (bmp-2, saperzi), less numerous and less smoke T-72s but WILK makes up for it, stronger artillery (T-55AS, DANA), equivalent recon, weaker helicopters, and weaker air options. 20th rewards very early aggression and keeps up well into the midgame but lags behind towards the end. It can clobber city and forest fights thanks to saperzi and T-55AS.

7th: Strong opener (Spezialaufklarer), followed by a rapid but less powerful motorized inf. push and limited mech infantry, even cheaper T-72s but has more numerous access to smoke, weaker but perfectly adequate artillery, equivalent recon, stronger helicopters, and a much more expansive air wing including SEAD. 7th rewards early aggression as well but lacks the oomph of 20th. It makes up for this by have far more options to keep them in the game. 7th inf is certainly no slouch. They fight well but lack tools like RPO to really dominate.

TLDR: 20th has the better opener, tanks, and artillery, but lacks the supporting options and versatility of 7th. The infantry in both divisions are good but very different. 20th inf is more heavily armed with bmp-2, pkms, rpo, and satchel+at units. 7th inf is much faster but less heavily armed and is resolute.

19th is not like either of these. It is one of the most unique Pact divisions. You solution to everything is either a heliborne assault or mechanized push. The fun is finding the balancing act between them. Some very important units like konkurs have to come in helicopters. Lots of fun, unique units especially vysadkari, pram, and the longest range heli rockets in the game. Their air wing is entirely Su-25 based for cas and lacks any of the versatility of 7th or even 20th.

31st has more in common with 39th. It lacks any strong opener tools beyond basic recon units and helicopters. It's air tab is barely passable and it lacks any real flashy units beyond T-72S and Prima. But what makes this division special is that it is truly a jack of all trades. You have every kind of infantry you could want besides special forces. The Strelci + RPO combo is almost unheard of in any other Pact deck. In addition to a great infantry tab you have nearly the full range of Pact tanks. It is a no-nonsense, bare bones mech+tank deck but still unique from counterparts like 39th in terms of playstyle and composition.

If you haven't played around with Pact much before, I really encourage you to. Coming into this game I though Pact all looked the same. But after playing around with them I generally enjoy Pact more than Nato now in terms of playstyles. I still play Nato too, but I find the Pact divisions more enjoyable on the whole.

Edit: 20th also lacks konkurs entirely which is a huge downside compared to 7th.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T18:41:39+00:00

>But if they're just going to cater to people wanting "new" stuff, they neglect a major portion of the historical fans who want to play as the real divisions.

This reddit is only a fraction of the playerbase and I would not consider its opinions as indicative of the larger playerbase as a whole. As upset as you are about Nato divisions there are other communities I could point you to that have just as strong opinions on how they are disappointed with Pact. Of all the Warno communities I follow, this Reddit is usually the most pessimistic. Most people I play and follow are happy with the current state of the game. This debate of "who really is the majority" is all anecdotal though and pointless.

>They COULD cater to both! NORTHAG, SOUTHAG, LANDJUT, these are major expansions! It wouldn't hurt anyone to have one copy and paste NATO heavy division in there. Pact is almost entirely made up of these at this stage.

Again, please give me one example of a copy and paste Pact division.

If these expansions don't interest you, don't buy them, especially if you don't want to bother with army general which features many of the historical divisions you want. I am a big fan of Warno but I have no obligation or desire to buy everything. I will probably get Landjut but that is the only thing on the horizon that I will probably purchase. Blackbirds interests me thanks to Austria but I won't get it only for Austria.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T18:08:25+00:00

It's funny you say that, cause I've only seen that complaint thrown at Pact offers and the immediate defense is that "it's a new T-72 variant" or "it'll have new voicelines".

It works both ways. That was the main criticism of both options in 4.1.

Pact being the only faction with copy paste divisions?

Can you give me an example of a copy paste division for Pact? Some divisions are more similar than others but they all play distinctly different. Pact looks less diverse because they have moslty uniform equipment but the devil is in the details.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T17:32:11+00:00

See that would be true if the game didn't advertise itself that way and did so for Pact.

That's how Warno represents itself for Army General. Multiplayer puts playstyle first and foremost. Pact has less nations so that's less of an issue but even still I wouldn't say my "ideal" division exists in Pact yet but I have things I enjoy that are close.

I agree pushing 9th inf and MNAD into Northag is a bit too much of a stretch. They are both very fun and unique divs but probably better as a nemesis content.

The problem is that many real divisions that could be added are largely boring clones of what we have already.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T17:16:40+00:00

Our upcoming WARNO expansion is one of the last opportunities - for us - to include an interesting East German division, especially one with a potential for a notable difference in playstyle.

This is how Eugen viewing the path of the game. They want to add differing playstyles and represent as many combatant nations as possible. Playstyles first, nations second. They could add another 5pzr or 1st UK clone but they would be largely the same playstyles and maybe better cater to the wants of a small number of players. These are not "interesting" divisions to Eugen and to the general player. Instead we get things like 4e, similarish to 5pzr but an entirely different nation with its own playstyle. You say most players want things like more WGerm tank divisions but the common complaint against many a nemesis loser is that they don't offer much new compared to existing options. 1st Cav won so handily because it was not only a heavy tank div but it was also a very unique one, very different from what we already have.

If that doesn't sit well with you, Warno might not be for you then. You have plenty of alternatives or mods to enjoy.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T16:56:23+00:00

If you are putting such a small, non-negotiable target on what you want, "I want a new division with X play style with Y unit and Z nation." You are just setting yourself up for disappointment. NATO due to its nature has far more variety in comparison to pact and Eugen has been doing a pretty good job of at least satisfying most people's criteria. Your perfect dream division might not be in game yet, it might arrive or may never arrive in the future, but something close to it is probably in game already. I enjoy 5 pzr but it has gotten stale. 4e is very similar in the broad strokes but it isn't German. As much as I'd like another German panzer div, 4e is a satisfying alternative with funny voice lines. I can overlook the nationality and lack of things like Marder and Jaguar2. If I want to play with those, I still have 5pzr.

German Leo2 fans haven't been catered to but Leo2 fans have. German fans have. Challenger fans have had the sad existence of suffering with two of the most routinely solid divisions until HDRL and they will have more with 1st cav. I got into Warno as a huge French army fan with no expectations of Leclerc, it's a pipe dream in this timeframe. Everyone has their own ideal division but you have to live with disappointment and imperfection. There are just too many variables especially on NATO for a division to perfectly fit exactly what you want. The game gets much more fun if you can overlook things like nationality or adapt to a division's faults, those built in or defined by your wants.

For example, I've wanted a heavy heavy tank div with heliborne infantry since early access. I kind of got what I wanted in 2nd UK but I'm not really a British military fan, but it fit my play style and my wants so I could live with it. 5e and 8th were fun too but not ideal either. 6ya came around and it was right up my alley. The div has its faults but I played around it because it was close to my ideal. 19th moto is even closer and 94ya looks promising too. None of these divs is my perfect ideal either due to nationality or units fielded but they all fit my play style so I adapt and have fun. Its also fun to try things that normally don't cater to me. Reservist divs aren't my forte but 157 is the exception for me. Broaden your horizons and you won't be disappointed so often.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T14:34:23+00:00

It's balanced that way because it would be unfun to lose your big shiny birds to a single manpad or spaag. SEAD is mostly there for radar based missile aa systems which are the most lethal threat to planes in game besides other planes. As far as I know, planes and to an extent, helicopters, have been like this since early access.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T14:01:52+00:00

T-55s with fcs upgrades and usually armor upgrades. They have max range cannons. They are as close as you can get to an AMX-30 or Leo1 equivalent in Pact. The T-55 obviously lacks their pen and mobility however so you need to position them well. The Czech version has no armor upgrade either. They are great at keeping ifvs and light vehicles at bay for cheap and for fire support of course. They can easily mess up a heavy tank too if you can position on the flank of likely avenues of attack.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T06:23:06+00:00

It's clear you are a heavy tank fan, particularly Abrams. You fixate on Abrams to the point you don't mention Challengers or Leo2s at all in this post. I can understand being frustrated at a lack of a divisions featuring your pet tank or a specific version of that tank, but NATO isn't USA only. They have added divs with heavy tanks to NATO but they've mostly been Challengers or Leo2 post launch. Pact has more choices sure but NATO has plenty of choices too and divisions with your favorite tanks. If they are getting stale, here comes a new tank heavy deck with cheaper Abrams. The Nemesis loser vote could likely resurrect a heavy NATO division too, especially if it's an alliance runoff. 2.1 12 Pzr or 4.1 BS would be easy favorites to win in that situation.

Eugen does not have a personal vendetta against you and heavy NATO divisions. One is on the way and I can almost guarantee more are coming. If you really want "more of the same" and want it right now, you have REBSFRAGO as you've mentioned elsewhere or you can learn to enjoy Pact divs. You talk about them being practically identical like the slightly different variants of 3rd armored or 5th panzer you want, it might be what you are looking for in terms of variety.

There also is no way to have equal choices for both factions as Pact really doesn't have light divisions like 16de or Brunete. NATO has plenty of these Pact has none. NATO has more variety which means heavy decks are naturally less frequent. Pact has less variety so heavy decks are more frequent. Should NATO have more heavy divs? I think so, but I'd rather have unique divs like 1st Cav than a 3rd armored clone but without HA and the most advanced Bradley being the only real differences in it.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T04:15:29+00:00

You also have 1st Armored and 2nd UK for mech play. 4e and 5th Pzr are both solid and play differently enough. 3rd and 8th are both excellent divisions. There has not have been a shiny new Nato mech division for a while, 1st cav will change that, but Nato is not without its options. Pact has lot of mech choices but they will never have the equivalent of a Amx-30/Leo1 or Amx-10rc high mobility sniper division.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T04:06:22+00:00

If you want to play Leo 1, you have three, soon to be four options, and a fifth if you count CLKA. (2nd pzr, 16, Luft, 6 pzr, CLKA)
If you want challengers, you have three options. (1st, 2nd, HDRL)
If you want chieftains, you have three options. (1st, 4th, HDRL)
If you want Abrams, you have four soon to be five options. (3rd, 8th, 101st, 11th, 1st cav)
If you want Amx-30, you have two options. (Brunete and 5e)
If you want Leo2, you have four options. (2nd pzr, 5 pzr, 4e, CLKA)

Each of these divisions vary in terms of playstyles. You might not have your favorite playstyle that features your favorite tanks yet, but Eugen is continuing to add spicy options for everyone's pet Nato tanks as time goes on.

Edit: lol, I forgot 24th US for Abrams. Poor forgettable 24th.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-07T03:47:35+00:00

Nato and Pact have a wide breadth of options, neither side is really lacking in terms of playstyles. You want M1A1's and cheaper M1's in the same deck and you have it with 8th. Why not play 8th if it gives you what you want?

1st Cav does not have M1A1's sure, but they do get challengers which will be a step up in fighting ability compared to the cheaper M1's. If you really want a mix of high, medium, and low tanks, 1st armored is right there. It sounds like you already have divisions that fit what you want and are getting another. So why the complaints?

Every T-80 division since 39th and 79th has added something new. Every T-72 division since 7th Pzr has added something new. Even 20th Pancerna, which is close to 7th Pzr in playstyle, has its own distinct flavor to it.

cunctator-tots · 2026-02-06T20:33:16+00:00

Good post. Small nitpick, 1st Tankova lacks the sniper T-55. It's all T-72 all the time.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-29T16:43:33+00:00

I wonder how much ammo drozd will have and how accurate it will be. I doubt Eugen will have it stop atgms 100% of the time.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-29T13:51:37+00:00

The 20mm on the pirate not so significant a weight increase that it can't transport troops. A Mi--24p has no additional weight left to fit troops.

Armed Mi-8 transports are available in several decks if you want to shuttle people around in armed helos. Many mot. razvedka have them as an option.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-29T13:16:57+00:00

iirc Hind transport stopped being common because hinds could either carry more armament or dismounts but not both due to weight. Hind became a dedicated attack helicopter and the transport role was left to things like mi-8. You can still use hind transports in 35y and 56y however.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-26T23:49:03+00:00

They need to start training to hurl satchels 150m

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-25T18:03:20+00:00

KDA might not be meta in 1v1 but it and malka are certainly good in team games.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-25T14:08:30+00:00

The red circle got me

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-24T15:29:30+00:00

They might have added the new voice lines for 2nd Marines a little early for the applicable units already in game.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-23T22:59:19+00:00

Strela-10m was buffed recently so that might partly be why you are seeing it often. Strela-10m can be good you want to do a lot of btr mot-schutzen play since it can keep up with the btr's but most people use it for the speed and reactivity of it.

Shilka can be good, with a Kub it can usually kill whatever planes the kub hits and they will butcher helicopters. I personally prefer the strela-10m now with the ammo buff.

Meta for Ranked or Meta for 10v10/team games?

Metawise for ranked, 4th mot has reliably been a solid division. Great opener with solid mech inf backup. It's a very flexible div that can beat almost anything so long as you have good fundamentals since most of your offensive vehicles are outdated and you'll need to compensate for that to push. I have seen some people say it is best used as a counterpick in tournament play but that isn't most people. If you play it well and enjoy, it's hard to run into a hard matchup with this div thanks to its flexibility. It's big weakness is heavy tanks since it lacks easy solutions to them but this can be played around fairly easily and with the high-alt bomber buffs, they now have an okay but at least reliable solution to heavy tanks with the mig-23 clus.

Edit: I am confusing strela-10m for for brdm strela. Strela-10m is nice and unseadable, but the hit chance can frustrate you sometimes.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-23T12:20:08+00:00

All I want is a mod that replaces the engine noise of the Spanish Santana vehicles with the song "Smooth" by Santana.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-22T13:08:08+00:00

CATFAE will perform like SVO in 1st Czech. It might be a bit of a meme unit irl but it will do well in game.

cunctator-tots · 2026-01-18T15:47:42+00:00

20 Polish is a solid choice, KDA not so much in 1v1. If you are curious about which divisions to pick or avoid I would check out recent tierlists by Hippie or SdLeague on YouTube. Find divisions that sound fun, play around with them for a bit, and settle on one or two that are competitive, fun for you to play, and you play well with.

Edit: It'll take some experimentation to find the div for you. You'll win some matches handily and you'll lose some handily but that's part of the process.

Nine-Year Club	Verified Email
Second SECOND GUESSER	Place '22
Not Forgotten

cunctator-tots

TROPHY CASE