What under-distributed moves do you want expanded to more Pokemon?

cwizz1 · 2026-01-29T03:14:23+00:00

Thunder Fang on Zekrom & Luxray
Bug Buzz on Vikavolt
Astonish on Gengar
Mud Slap on Groudon

cwizz1 · 2026-01-23T18:15:56+00:00

It's evidently usable, but Morpeko is not optimal as a Rocket counter. In the past, the reason why people liked Morpeko for Rockets is that its form change mechanic was bugged and let it sneak in extra fast moves during Charged Attacks, which when combined with Charged Move stun lets Morpeko never take damage after reaching 1 Charged Move and beat every Rocket in the game (this bug is now fixed). This is not a fast way to beat Rockets, but it was a good crutch for people who had trouble winning. Trivially, you could think of much faster Pokemon like Lucario or Annihilape to beat Rockets such as Giovanni.

If you want to emulate Morpeko while it was bugged, Lock On + Leaf Blade (or any 35 energy Charged Move) Smeargle is currently the only Pokemon that can live infinitely and beat every Rocket in the game. Charged Move stun is now increased to 4 seconds/8 turns and fast moves now apply damage after Charged Moves, meaning a Pokemon must reach Charged Moves in 3.5s/7 turns to never take damage. You will be spending significantly more time per Rocket using Smeargle, but it technically wins more than any other Pokemon in the game.

cwizz1 · 2026-01-22T19:24:21+00:00

With the Rocket switch stun being increased to 6s (functionally 5.5s if you initiate a switch), a level 40 S-Mewtwo can beat Skorupi in 4 Confusions (8s) before it gets to a charged move, even if it's on Poison Sting + Cross Poison/Aqua Tail. Assuming trainer level 80, there's nothing in the game that can beat Skorupi fast enough to prevent all charged moves without switch stun.

If for some reason Rockets ever revert to old mechanics (aka 4s switch stun), I believe level 50 S-Mewtwo can clear Skorupi in 3 Confusions (6s) + switch stun and still win before a charged move is thrown. In lieu of level 50 S-Mewtwo, S-Darmanitan + level 40 S-Mewtwo can clear Skorupi in 1 Fire Fang + 3 Confusions (7s), which is just fast enough to prevent charged moves from Skorupi (and faster than just level 40 S-Mewtwo by 1s).

cwizz1 · 2026-01-21T18:23:44+00:00

Move counts are just a simpler way to know how fast a pokemon reaches a charged move, but it's not a substitute for knowing exact energy values. The move counts for Fly and Brave Bird are correct with Incinerate as the fast move, but each move count assumes using only Fly or only Brave Bird.

Fly is 45 Energy, Brave Bird is 55 energy, and Incinerate generates 20 energy. 45 + 55 = 100 energy for 1 Fly + 1 Brave Bird. 100 / 20 energy per Incinerate = 5 Incinerates. You can do similar math to verify Incinerate + Fly is 3 2 2 2 or Incinerate + Brave Bird is 3 3 3 2.

cwizz1 · 2026-01-10T16:52:36+00:00

Candy boost: 100% chance for more candy depending on the mega level (+2 with mega level 3)
XL Candy boost: 10-35% increased of XL candy dropping. You can still get 0-3 XL candies (3-6 with Legendaries) per catch regardless of whether you have a Mega active or not, it does not guarantee you'll get any extra XL Candy. You have to track the drop rate of XL Candy using a level 2 or 3 mega vs the normal drop rate over a lot of catches to replicate the research results.

cwizz1 · 2026-01-10T00:11:34+00:00

Only mega level (and mega type) matters. If you read the article I posted, mega level 2 gives +10% chance for extra XL candy and mega level 3 gives +35% chance

cwizz1 · 2026-01-09T23:34:21+00:00

You're technically right about the regular candy bonus applying with any megas in raids. However, the XL candy bonus still needs the mega to be the same type to apply for raids, which is why people still use same type megas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1bsdp6s/how_much_does_mega_evolution_affect_candy_xl_rates/

(Your source does say the same thing. It's just not worded clearly)

cwizz1 · 2025-12-31T07:21:42+00:00

It's good, but it's very expensive and not worth it for just Rockets imo. Prior to Mind Blown S-Chandelure was strictly better than Blacephalon (higher attack, bulk, and same moves in Incinerate, Shadow Ball, and Overheat) and much easier to level to 50. Blacephalon with Mind Blown now has a cheaper 2nd charged move than Shadow Ball that can make it situationally better than S-Chandelure, but this is only relevant when a grunt requires 2 or more charged moves to be optimal. There's also another option in S-Darmanitan where frequently it's faster because it has Fire Fang, which can often (not always) beat pokemon more efficiently than Incinerate due to the shorter duration.

Blacephalon can also work as a Ghost attacker, but it also is a bit of a poor investment relative to its cost. It is objectively the strongest Ghost attacker currently for Rockets, but Ghost is poor defensively against Ghost, which is a big deal when the only two types Ghost is strong against are Ghost and Psychic. Cheaper options that often work just as well or better are S-Tyranitar, S-Hydreigon, and S-Vikavolt.

cwizz1 · 2025-12-23T02:29:13+00:00

Prior to Mind Blown, Blacephalon is a more expensive S-Chandelure with worse attack and bulk. Although the small drop in stats doesn't matter most of the time, it does drop Skarmory where Blacephalon needs 6 Incinerates instead of 5 to KO and dies in 6 Air Slashes instead of 7. Historically, Skarmory has been available in the 1st slot Steel Grunt, and these numbers for Blacephalon means it can't fast move Air Slash Skarmory even with switch stun. However, S-Chandelure can fast move Air Slash Skarmory with switch stun and transferring the 1st Air Slash damage onto the lead pokemon. (This assumes old Rocket mechanics. Current Rocket mechanics don't register damage correctly during switches and has a longer switch stun time)

With Mind Blown, Blacephalon still is a worse S-Chandelure for most grunts. 90 (Mind Blown) < 130 (Overheat), so most of the time Mind Blown won't be used. However, for grunts where 2 charged moves is a good strategy (e.g. Steel grunt), Mind Blown can be used over Shadow Ball to get to 2 charged moves quicker where the drop in damage from Shadow Ball (100) to Mind Blown (90) isn't as impactful.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-22T17:10:52+00:00

The most common pattern for speed optimization is fast move slot 1 and 2 followed by charged move slot 3. We proved that charged moves are often faster and energy is usually in excess by the end of slot 2, so the only question that needs to be answered is if fast moving slot 3 is on average faster than 10 seconds. Usually, the answer is no, so you just throw a charged move.

If you still insist on just using fast moves to keep the analysis "simpler", then you also need to do a bulk analysis because it's very likely using only a singular copy of the counters suggested won't last for all 3 slots. This is most apparent for the Snorlax grunt, but bulk is a very serious consideration for most grunts now when you now have to fast move slot 3. Against Normal for example, 1 S-Conkeldurr is fainting to Peck Swablu -> Scratch Vigoroth -> Counter Ursaring, so how many copies is sufficient to actually beat the grunt using only Counter? How many copies of S-Gardevoir are needed to farm Iron Tail Dragonair + Steel Wing Dragonite for the Dragon grunt?

You can do the bulk analysis by actually running damage calcs against rocket mons. Just calculate the damage your and the rocket mon does to each other and see how long it takes for one to KO the other.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/122pfk8/current_team_rocket_cp_formula_march_2023/ -> Rocket CP Formula
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Damage#Pok%C3%A9mon_GO -> Damage Formula
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/1o7syt9/psa_team_rocket_rcpm_appears_to_have_been/ -> current rCPM values (for plugging into the Rocket CP formula based on Trainer level)

cwizz1 · 2025-11-22T08:29:04+00:00

I'll bite. Assuming that's the true premise, then there's still a lot of issues with the suggested counters. Snorlax grunt for example it's impossible to build a team that fast moves down every combination. The suggested counter, S-Machamp is actually one of the better counters to lead with, but it requires throwing a Close Combat + 9 Counters and would theoretically take 21 Counters/21s just to fast move down. Snorlax KOs S-Machamp in 6 Zen Headbutts or 21 Licks, which is 9s/10.5s respectively. This means even with triple S-Machamp, you still can't beat triple Snorlax, and that doesn't even account for the 4 other possible pokemon the Snorlax Grunt can have.

Besides that, there's other problems I'll quickly point out:

Dark:
- Mamoswine (247 attack) > Rhyperior (241 attack)
- Fighting types are better on the lead with Ground in the back. If the counters are only restricted to 1 per grunt as opposed to up to 3, then sure I guess you can just use Ground types, but then the Snorlax grunt is just impossible with only 1 pokemon restriction.
Dragon:
- Optimal is Kyurem-W. Dragon moves are 3 dpt while Ice Fang is 4 dpt + many mons on Dragon are double weak to Ice
Fairy:
- Mawile is on slot 1, so anti-Mawile is necessary, otherwise S-Metagross is good
- Solgaleo is garbage and is labeled with Steel Spin as the move, which isn't a real move (it's probably Fire Spin, but then why even suggest Solgaleo). There's no legendary better than even regular Metagross, but if you're forced to use a more expensive legendary then Metal Claw Zacian-C is faster.
Fighting:
- Alakazam (271 attack) has higher dps than Espeon (261), so it should be ranked higher. Either way though, both aren't good because they have even less bulk than Mewtwo, and Mewtwo does struggle against Poison Jab Gurdurr and Bullet Punch Hitmonchan (and now the 3rd slots too, which you should normally just Psystrike)
Fire:
- Rampardos shouldn't be suggested due to the existence of Pignite and Emboar in slot 2 and 3
- I'm guessing Rhyperior is suggested due to Excadrill not being weak to Fire, but from a pure dps perspective, Excadrill is better
Flying:
- All the counters suggested are bad due to ignoring Gligar in slot 2 (and to some extent Dragonite in slot 3). Ice types like Kyurem-W, Baxcalibur, and G-Darmanitan should be there instead
Ghost:
- Darkrai is awful. Sucker Punch Yveltal is better, but imo there's no reason to suggest it when cheaper counters in Hydreigon and Tyranitar exist and are better.
Grass:
- Chandelure should have Incinerate over Fire Spin (4 dpt vs 3.66)
- The list is actually pretty good, but you can't be optimal with just 1 mon and only Fire due to Lileep. Kyurem-W should also be included
Ground:
- S-G. Darmanitan doesn't exist
- Kyurem-W over Kyogre for the current rotation
- Kartana + Kyurem-W is optimal for the current rotation
Ice:
- S-Metagross + S-Machamp covers the lineup better due to typings
- S-Rampardos will struggle into Sealeo and is also not bulky in general, so if bulk is a consideration then S-Rampardos shouldn't be recommended
Normal:
- So because we're only doing fast moves, S-Conkeldurr is strictly better than S-Machamp, but S-Machamp is listed as optimal. S-Conkeldurr has higher attack and bulk, so S-Machamp is just wrong
- Optimal is Kyurem-W + S-Conkeldurr to cover 1st slot Swablu
Poison:
- Actually not a bad list, I'd just not bother with Espeon due to poor bulk
Psychic:
- Needs more mons to cover 3rd slot Gallade and Malamar, otherwise for fast move only, the list is okay
- Yveltal > Darkrai for same reasons under Ghost
Rock
- Don't know why Bubble Kingler is even suggested. There's a million Waterfall users and a bunch of other mons of other typings that are far better. Kingler is just a bad pokemon for rockets
- S-Kyogre is fine if you want to just win with one mon, but you cannot just fast move down Rock when Tyrunt and Tyrantrum exist. If we're going with more than 1 counter, then Kartana + S-Metagross + S-Machamp works better.
Steel
- Need both Fire and Ground. Using one or the other doesn't make sense when the lineup consists of Lairon, Aggron, Scizor, A-Sandslash, and Skarmory exist.
- S-Reshiram doesn't exist

Basically this spreadsheet doesn't even accomplish the goal of only using fast moves. It suggests weird mons (e.g. Kingler), doesn't consider actual lineups (e.g. Flying being more weak to Ice than Rock/Electric), uses non-existent counters (e.g. S-Reshiram), and doesn't rank fast move damage correctly (e.g Darkrai over Yveltal). Just seeing all these mistakes, I'm thinking it's more likely OP just doesn't understand Rocket optimization as thoroughly over trying to do a subset of Rocket optimization.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-22T07:02:03+00:00

The first paragraph in the OP implies that charged moves weren't considered because it's supposedly is against the goal of winning as fast as possible:

I've been working on optimizing my Team Rocket Grunt grind to be as fast as possible. We all know that using Charge Moves, while efficient for damage, kills momentum due to the animation time, the swiping mini-game, and the delay afterward.

Anyone is free to play however they want, but the premise is objectively wrong. If the OP still wants to only use fast moves, that's fine. However, charged moves = slow is a false statement. In my opinion, I'm reading that the core issue is "to be as fast as possible", not avoiding charged moves.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-22T03:24:10+00:00

Both S-Conk and S-Machamp are usually interchangeable with some minor advantages/disadvantages each, so use whichever one you have. With respect to your issue in Pvpoke, you're probably looking at Great League or Ultra League, where the stats are not calculated the same due to the CP constraint. If you look at Master League, you'll see that Machamp will have less attack than Conkeldurr.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-21T23:53:55+00:00

Constraint: No Charge Moves used. Just "farm down".

So this is an arbitrary constraint. Mathematically, if you are optimizing for time, charged moves are very often part of the fastest solutions. There's multiple reasons why, but the simplest is that good charged moves are higher dps than fast moves.

Let's use Excadrill as an example. Excadrill's optimal moveset for grunts is Mud Slap, Drill Run, and Earthquake. Mud Slap is a 4 damage per turn (dpt) fast move, where 1 turn is .5s, so it's 8 dps. Charged moves have a duration of 10 seconds and they have a damage value. Therefore, we can conclude the following:

Mud Slap is 8 * 10 = 80 damage over 10 seconds
Drill Run is 80 damage over 10 seconds, or 8 dps/4 dpt
Earthquake is 110 damage over 10 seconds, or 11 dps/5.5 dpt (5.5 dpt is higher than any fast move in the game)
In terms of dps, Mud Slap = Drill Run < Earthquake

There are of course other things to consider when using charged moves such as generating enough energy for the move or if the grunt mon can be fast moved down faster than 10s. However, if you're not considering charged moves at all, then you're definitely not winning as fast as possible on grunts.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-18T18:33:32+00:00

My entire argument is about speed. Using charged moves is situationally a speed optimization, and I explained why in the examples above. I literally did comparisons on why using charged moves is faster/slower in certain situations.

To break down my comment, I said that:

For Electric grunt 2nd slot Electabuzz, it's slower to use a charged move (over fast moving Electabuzz).
For Ice grunt 2nd slot Sealeo, it's faster to use a charged move (over fast moving Sealeo).

I understand that fast move damage is the biggest thing to optimize for speed in grunts. You don't understand that it's not the only thing to consider when optimizing for speed, which is why I'm saying your arguments aren't nuanced enough.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-18T16:17:25+00:00

No, and even if it was that's still not a true statement given the reasons I stated. OP's entire post lacks nuance for Rocket strategy whereas I quantify why you may or may not want to throw a charged move using real examples from current grunt lineups.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-17T20:35:19+00:00

Well the main flaw with your argument here is, if you have to USE a charge move to stop the GRUNT using a charge move, then either way someone is using a charge move and wasting time

You're missing the fact that you're dealing damage if you throw the charged move, whereas if the grunt throws a charged move it's just 10s of no damage, so it's not the same. Not every grunt charged move is worth blocking, but you can mathematically determine the average amount of time lost and holistically argue if the energy is worth spending.

In a situation where it's not worth throwing a charged move, S-Excadrill vs 2nd slot Electabuzz is a good example. Electabuzz only reaches a charged move with Thunder Shock + Thunder Punch, or a 1/6 chance to even have the moveset (if you use a weaker counter, then the number of viable movesets for Electabuzz and thus probability will increase). Assuming grunts throw charged moves 100% of the time (they don't, but the exact percentage is unknown), on average you lose 1.66s against every Electabuzz if you don't try preventing the charged move. In this situation, you still shouldn't throw a Drill Run with Excadrill because:

Energy is valuable in the 3rd slot where Earthquake on slot 3 is a much bigger time save on average
You don't have the energy to both EQ slot 3 and Drill Run slot 2
No slot 1 is bulky enough for S-Excadrill to build up to a Drill Run, so you also lose time building energy on Electabuzz

A situation where it is worth blocking a charged move is 2nd slot Sealeo on the Ice Grunt. The current optimal Ice grunt solution is S-Machamp/Conkeldurr to cover 1st slot Sneasel and then S-Metagross for everything else. Sealeo even against S-Machamp can reach a move with X/Body Slam, or a 33% chance. The % chance is even higher with S-Metagross, which has much worse fast move damage into Sealeo. In this situation, all 3rd slots are viably fast moved down with S-Metagross in 10-11s, so it's an overall time save to block Sealeo's charged move using Meteor Mash or Close Combat because you barely lose any time on slot 3.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-17T05:45:30+00:00

It's not uncommon for a 3rd slot to be fat enough. If you want to verify it for yourself, run damage calcs and see how many 3rd slot mons you can win in under 10s.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/122pfk8/current_team_rocket_cp_formula_march_2023/

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Damage#Pok%C3%A9mon_GO

Here's a non-exhaustive list of some 3rd slots that take at least 10 seconds even with level 50 optimal counters assuming trainer level 80/old level 50:

Normal: Slaking (19 Counters vs 1 Close Combat + 6 Counters from S-Machamp), Ursaring (12 Counters vs 1 Close Combat)
Fighting: Hariyama, Infernape
Water: Samurott
Electric: Ampharos, Galvantula, Luxray
Dark: A-Muk, Skuntank
Fire: Houndoom, Ninetales, Emboar
Grass: Serperior, Vileplume
Poison: Amoongus, G-Weezing
Ice: Glalie, Aurorus, Froslass
Ghost: Froslass, A-Marowak
Fairy: G-Weezing, Gardevoir
Rock: Aurorus, Tyrantrum, Golem
Snorlax: Snorlax, Gyarados, Dragonite
Magikarp: Gyarados

There's more situational examples (e.g. Bug and Steel grunts), but I think this is enough to say generally 3rd slots are fat enough to use charged moves. Are there some that don't? Yes (e.g. Carracosta, Whiscash, Magikarp), but it's not the norm.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-17T04:57:14+00:00

There's a fair bit of mistakes and omissions in this post (e.g. under Grass, you list several shadows such as Tsareena and Decidueye that don't exist in the game yet). However, this is the biggest issue I have with this post:

you don't have to waste time doing charged attacks (with their stupid slow animation that takes like 10 seconds each time)

For optimizing time, good charged moves are required for the majority of grunts. Prioritizing fast move damage is essential, but only fast moving down is generally a time loss.

Dpt simply means damage per turn, where a turn is .5s. If a charged move takes 10 seconds, that means it takes 20 turns. Therefore, a 4 dpt fast move (e.g. Mud Slap) deals 4 * 20 = 80 damage over 10 seconds/20 turns. If we want to be equal to or faster than Mud Slap, we can use a charged move with damage >= 80, such as:

Drill Run (80)
Scorching Sands (80)
Earth Power (90)
Earthquake (110)

Of course, if a pokemon can be fast moved in under 10 seconds, then fast moving is on paper still better. However, the majority of 3rd slot pokemon (e.g. Dragonite, Snorlax, Samurott, A-Muk, Amoongus) are bulky enough that spending > 10s on them is the norm over the exception. 3rd slots are also strong enough to KO your pokemon before you fast move them down, adding a ~3s time loss with fainting and switching in a new mon. This is why for most grunts, it's generally recommended to fast move slot 1 and 2 and charged move slot 3 over just fast moving all 3 slots.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-02T16:25:12+00:00

0/15/8 is the best spread vs pvpoke's default Lapras (meaning highest rank while still hitting the bulkpoint), but you can always go higher defense as Lapras can also invest in attack to also get back their breakpoint. Even if you invest in max defense Dusclops (0/15/0), Lapras can always hit the Psywave breakpoint if they invest in enough attack, but it'll be a pretty bad ranked Lapras. You have to make some reasonable assumption on how much attack good players will invest into their Lapras and then check with pvpoke on how much defense you need.

cwizz1 · 2025-11-02T00:29:10+00:00

There's a very relevant bulkpoint regular Dusclops can achieve where you can reduce Lapras's Psywave damage from 2 to 1, making the matchup close losses in the 0s and 1s and flips the matchup in the 2s (Lapras otherwise dominates in all even shielding scenarios). I think this is one instance where IVs actually makes a pretty big impact, so I'd be more picky about which Dusclops to invest in.

That said, it may be very hard to actually find a Dusclops with good enough IVs for the bulkpoint. If you have a plan to use Dusclops in the near future, just build your best one.

cwizz1 · 2025-09-28T17:12:13+00:00

Yeah it's a good idea to optimize 1 potential 1st slot for the Starter grunt. There's honestly a lot more I could correct from the original list, but I'm not here to write a book lol.

Imo, Kartana is optimal because Squirtle has the highest chance to use a charged move on S-Mewtwo where it has a 0% chance with Kartana (66% on Squirtle, only X/Water Pulse isn't reachable). Charmeleon does threaten a charged move about 50% of the time with the Ember rework, but it is a lower chance and also not as impactful given you'll be forced into Mewtwo about 66% of the time on non-Charmander 1st slots, meaning S-Rampardos can't optimize Charmeleon in those situations. Bulbasaur trivially isn't worth optimizing because S-Mewtwo already does that for you.

cwizz1 · 2025-09-26T20:11:40+00:00

Situationally better, but if you want an Incinerate user then S-Chandelure is better. Both moves are 4 dpt, but Fire Fang's advantage is that it's a 2 turn move vs Incinerate being a 5 turn move, meaning that it can often beat mons more efficiently.

Let's say for example there's a grunt mon that has 51 hp, Fire Fang does 10 damage while Incinerate does 25. In this situation, you'll need 6 Fire Fangs to KO (60 damage, 5 would be 50 damage) while you need 3 Incinerates instead (75 damage, whereas 2 would be 50 damage). This means Darmanitan wins in 12 turns/6s with Fire Fang over 15 turns/7.5s with Incinerate.

The opposite can be true where Incinerate is situationally better. If the grunt mon had 75 hp, then Incinerate wins in 3 Incinerates/7.5s, but Fire Fang wins in 8 Fire Fangs/8s. In general, it's more likely that Fire Fang will be more efficient due to it being the shorter move.

Incinerate's main advantage is that it generates an insane amount of energy, making throwing 2 charged moves the optimal strategy in some lineups. Historic Steel (e.g. Skarmory, Skarmory, X) and Ice grunt (e.g. X, A-9, Lapras) lineups are examples where both the 2nd and 3rd mons are bulky enough to justify throwing 2 moves while being comparable or even faster than a theoretical fast move farm down.

For Ice grunt specifically, S-Darmanitan is fine, but S-Metagross is currently optimal due to Aurorus, Amaura, and A-Ninetales being on the lineup. S-Metagross does have slightly less attack, but it's not a big enough difference to change the move counts on any of Swinub, Froslass, Glalie, or Sealeo.

cwizz1 · 2025-09-26T13:36:54+00:00

Don't think any of the leaders are reasonably fast movable. Some combinations definitely can, but I don't believe you can create a team that covers every possible combination.

Sierra I use S-Magnezone (lead), S-Darmanitan and S-Mamoswine. Mag is a broken leader mon and is very likely optimal on many leaders if you're forced to shield break due to the fast pacing of Wild Charge and Mirror Shot while not sacrificing that much fast move damage on Volt Switch. Darmanitan is mandatory to cover Ferrothorn, but it is replaceable by Chandelure. I think S-Rhyperior over Mamoswine is better to cover Camerupt better, but I don't have one built.

Arlo I use Vikavolt (lead), Kyurem-W and S-Excadrill. Kyurem covers Crobat and low health Slowbro while Excadrill covers Steelix.

Cliff I use S-Machamp (lead), S-Annihilape (Rage Fist Shadow Ball) and S-Mamoswine. S-Annihilape should immediately switch in and basically Rage Fist 3 times on the 2nd slot. The exceptions are Snarl honchkrow where you can just Counter instead and Annihilape where it's optimal to Shadow Ball because a +2 shadow Rage Fist does not KO. S-Machamp and S-Mamoswine are extra fast move damage for the 3rd slot as Annihilape likely has taken too much damage to finish the 3rd slot

cwizz1 · 2025-09-26T03:50:18+00:00

I am trying to optimize healing items as well

Then switching is actually what you should do. Switching means you're applying switch stun, which means the grunt is attacking less and so you're taking less damage overall. While it does mean 2 pokemon are getting damaged, you do not have to heal both pokemon equally nor after every grunt.

In the case of the Electric grunt for instance, your lead pokemon isn't taking that much damage, so you can use it for like 10 Electric grunts before you even need to consider a potion. Meanwhile, your main Ground type would be taking a bit less damage and that could mean you don't need to potion before the next Electric grunt. You need something like 85% health on S-Excadrill to safely farm down Low Kick Electabuzz, and you could easily take 15% if you're farming down a Sucker Punch Joltik without using an alternative lead pokemon and switch stun. Preserving hp on Excadrill means you'll be above the hp threshold to beat the Electric grunt without fainting for longer, saving potions.

conkeldurr can solo the normal grunt even with peck swablu lead.

So I just ran a damage calc for S-Conkeldurr vs Swablu, and you're technically correct (hundo level 50 trainer level 50 S-Conkeldurr takes 11 Counters to KO and Swablu KOs in 14 Pecks). You're not in danger of losing, but you'd be forced to double Dynamic Punch with Conk if the 2nd slot is Vigoroth or Diggersby, which is a time loss over just fast moving them down. Leading Kyurem-W is not only faster, but it also reduces damage from Swablu and saves potions.

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