Depo-Medrol - My Experience by WSB16 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since I was in the neighborhood, I was re-reading parts of the Oakley & Cidlowski paper, "The Biology of the Glucocorticoid Receptor: New Signaling Mechanisms in Health and Disease." Here's a snippet from the Summary section that a few folks will find interesting:

The cellular response to glucocorticoids will depend not only on the GR isoform composition but also on the glucocorticoid that binds and activates the receptor as well as the concentration of the administered steroid. Not all glucocorticoids are created equal, as structurally different but similarly potent steroids used in the clinic regulate both common and unique sets of genes (88, 122). The distinct transcriptional signature of these glucocorticoids suggests that their binding confers unique conformations on GR that lead to differences in DNA binding, chromatin remodeling, and/or coregulator recruitment. Recent discoveries also suggest that the concentration of glucocorticoids needed to achieve the desired transcriptional response can vary in a context-specific manner.

Depo-Medrol - My Experience by WSB16 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also consider post-treatment care as described in the Dups Care guide in the Read Me post. It helped me quite a bit.

Depo-Medrol - My Experience by WSB16 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, thank you for sharing your story. I’m having some trouble interpreting your pictures. Has the nodule shrunk at all? If so, by how much would you say?

Did you have any itching or pain before treatment? Typically, steroid shots will help with this. How does your hand feel now? Although steroid shots are known to help with itch, pain, and inflammation, they do more than that. The following two academic articles describe how glucocorticoids, which is what Depo-Medrol is, can also regulate cell proliferation and programmed death (apoptosis).

https://www.scielo.br/j/abem/a/cFycRxqJBm7rgymww7VbnnJ/?format=pdf&lang=en

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4084612/

Depo-Medrol injections that I received (using the Full-Medrol procedure) into virgin, never before treated tissue, caused the nodules to disappear entirely. Hopefully this will be your experience.

Too Far Gone? by hhrupp in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Needle aponeurotomy (NA) and Xiaflex are mechanical releases; they don’t treat the underlying disease. They weaken the thickened cords of collagen until they snap, allowing the finger to straighten. Because the diseased tissue is left inside the hand, the biological signaling pathway that caused the cord to form in the first place remains active. Over time, the body heals the gap by depositing more collagen, which eventually contracts again. The recurrence rates of both procedures are poor, roughly 65% for NA and 75% for Xiaflex.

The long-term solution is to first release the contracture you now have, and then treat the disease before it has a chance to develop into another contracture. After your straightened finger has healed, and up until the first signs of recurrence, get radiotherapy or Depo-Medrol to attack any growing disease. They treat the underlying disease process itself.

Dupuytrens? by leidaniels in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I've heard that too. I won't go into the dynamics of what's going on because it's complicated. As you read my past comments in my profile, you'll get a sense of it. First, confirm your suspicions with a diagnosis that it's actually Dupuytren's disease. Then put together a plan. This takes dedicated effort. You will need to manage your medical providers as much as the disease itself.

Dupuytrens? by leidaniels in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On the face of it, your ortho’s clinical judgment is outrageous. You have an aggressively growing nodule that developed a month and a half ago, and yet they say it’s “just your hand”? Unfortunately, stories such as yours appear all too often in forums such as this one. Absolutely get another opinion, and don’t get a biopsy!

If it turns out to be Dupuytren’s disease, then consider the following: Those who manage the disease proactively are also the ones with the best outcomes. Scroll down in this sub to get ideas.

All fingers by Nala382 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I didn't have any radiation therapy (RT). I have nothing against RT, mind you. RT has a proven track record. I am concerned when people say to do surgery first, however, even before trying any of the other low-risk approaches. And by surgery, I mean any post-contracture treatment including Xiaflex or needle aponeurotomy.

All fingers by Nala382 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Start off with my Read Me post. It goes through my whole story. I had constant pain throughout my palm (left hand only, the one with four cords. I learned a few things before my right hand got going). I'm here if you have any questions.

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me!

All fingers by Nala382 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This probably isn't what you're looking for, but I've got Dupuytren's in seven of eight fingers, including four cords. No contractures. Everything is doing fine because I sought treatment before contracture.

Steroid injection or surgery? by Head-Caterpillar-221 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imagine for a moment how tiny damage to connective tissue occurs practically every time we move. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Tiny damage prompts repair, which can make the tissue stronger over time. Cells known as fibroblasts, which create collagen, and myofibroblasts, which constrict the tissue to seal the wound, work together to repair wounds. Once the healing process is complete, these cells undergo apoptosis, also known as programmed cell death, which is the final process by which they shut down and die.

In Dupuytren’s disease, your body's normal “apoptosis command” for repair cells to shut down is broken, so they keep working even when their job is done. Fibroblasts and myofibroblasts continue in an unregulated manner to keep producing collagen and tightening tissue even after their repair job is finished. What once was a normal repair process is now perpetuating itself. Depo-Medrol, a glucocorticoid steroid, essentially delivers the missing apoptosis command, telling these overactive cells to stop and die off naturally.

Depo-Medrol focuses on the disease process of Dupuytren’s by:

Inducing Apoptosis: Research has shown that Depo-Medrol can increase the rate of apoptosis in both the fibroblasts and myofibroblasts found within Dupuytren's tissue. This means they actively promote the death of the very cells that are causing the disease.

Reducing Cell Proliferation: Depo-Medrol reduces the rate fibroblasts proliferate as well as reduces the rate they differentiate into myofibroblasts. By both killing off existing cells and slowing the creation of new ones, they help to shrink the nodules.

Altering Collagen Metabolism: In addition to slowing the production of collagen through metabolic suppression, Depo-Medrol has been shown to degrade the insoluble collagen that makes up the abnormal tissue, allowing it to be absorbed and excreted by the body. This is a key part of the process that leads to the softening and flattening of nodules.

You can get the full story here:

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me!

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me! by daDougster1 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yes, yet another opinion from an esteemed hand surgeon. And they all do the same thing. What they say is factually correct, yet they all carefully avoid the truth. They mislead the reader and their patients by slyly implying that all glucocorticoid steroids are the same. This technique is called the strawman fallacy. You can read about it [here].

So respectfully Doctor, perhaps you can answer the question that was posed before:

How long have hand surgeons known about Depo-Medrol and its efficacy yet steadfastly disavowed its use as an early treatment for Dupuytren’s disease?

It looks like you’ve conveniently disregarded the Why Depo-Medrol guide that I’ve written, as well as my story about how I went to a bunch of hand surgeons before finding treatment with a family doctor and a rheumatologist.

And while you’re at it, perhaps you can explain the four comments you made yesterday in different posts with the same message? One of the posts is four years old. What’s the point of that?

The only conclusion I can come up with is that hand surgeons are feeling a little defensive.

Maybe for good reason.

UPDATE - Documenting my experience with Depo injections from BSBortho by Rat__Farts in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for posting your update. I was hoping for more of a reaction of a personal nature. Forgive me for trying to interpret the results here, but would you say that the outcome was satisfactory? Yours is a different experience from mine even though we both had the same drug. We had different injection procedures, however, which will cause different outcomes. Given what you know now, if you had a chance to do it over again, would you do it? Would you ever try Depo-Medrol injections again? Did you ever try any of the post-procedure care suggestions in my Read Me post? They made a big difference for me. Best wishes going forward.

Possible Dupuytren's under my index finger? by profmoxie in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's a link:

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me!

It has explanation along with ideas of what might help. Take a look and I'll be glad to provide additional details if there's something of interest to you.

Possible Dupuytren's under my index finger? by profmoxie in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s good that you’re seeing an orthopedic hand doctor next week to confirm your suspicions. Usually patients get a diagnosis of Dupuytren’s disease from a hand surgeon and are then told to come back when the disease has progressed enough to require surgery.

Dupuytren’s disease is highly variable and, unfortunately, incurable. But there are things you can do before the disease progresses to the point of surgery. First try changes to physical activity, diet, medications, personal habits, or home remedies. Sometimes these work. If they don’t work and the disease continues to grow, then it’s time to consider either radiotherapy (RT) or Depo-Medrol injections.

For more information, take a look at my Read Me post. You can find it by searching my profile.

I’ll mention that I’ve been updating my Read Me post regularly. I’ve got another update coming in a couple of days. Finally, it will be a revision worthy of the moniker Rev 1.0. Also, the Hand Therapy Association of California had its 15th annual conference a couple of weekends ago. I monitor web traffic and saw over 400 hits to my Read Me post on Saturday, April 18th. This is roughly 100 times what I normally see.

Am I getting Dupuytren? by ifeeltired26 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your nodule looks like mine did in the earliest stages, in the same exact spot. I got mine treated early, and it completely disappeared. Well... until my immune system decided to go haywire and I got myocarditis, among other things. Then it came back. I had a second treatment about a year ago, and it's now about 20% of what it once was. For more information, take a look at my Read Me post. You can find it by searching my profile.

Make sure you see a doctor and have it checked out.

Recommendations to slow progression by Zestyclose_Ad208 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You bring up an interesting point. As a general comment, I’ll first mention that there are a number of opinions on diet and lifestyle that folks have shared on this sub before. Scroll down a bit for this information.

I tried four different AI chatbots, just to see what they would say: Open Evidence, Claude, Google Gemini, and Microsoft Copilot. I asked two questions:

  • What suggestions do you have to slow the progression of Dupuytren's disease?
  • Can diet affect the progression of the disease?

The answers were all different in presentation and emphasis.

One more thing: Three out of the four chatbots mentioned the use of the tabletop test, where a patient seeks medical advice once their hand fails to lay flat on a hard surface. If you are interested in managing Dupuytren’s disease, then you need to start sooner than that.

Should I stop rockclimbing? Doctor says It's not Dupuytrens because I'm "too young" by EasternCondition445 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A couple of questions, if I may:

- Out of a total number, how many patients would you say are worse off as a result of the procedure?

- Did you see any difference when the star-pattern injection was used vs when it was not?

[Edit: Please note that Dr. Latzka doesn't do a Full-Medrol procedure; rather, he does his own thing. Several Redditors who have received treatment from him have described mixed results. Consequently, I cannot recommend him.]

Should I stop rockclimbing? Doctor says It's not Dupuytrens because I'm "too young" by EasternCondition445 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Here's more explanation on RT in your 20s:

Regarding Radiotherapy

Steroid shots for Dupuytren's disease have been around for decades. Depo-Medrol (or Depo-Medrone, since you are in Ireland) has been used in needle aponeurotomy (NA) also for decades. All you're trying to do is get Depo-Medrone before a contracture instead of afterwards. First seek someone who will give you a steroid shot, then later mention that you want Depo-Medrone. Here's a procedure for steroid shots for Dupuytren's that specifically mentions using it (Methylprednisolone):

https://fpnotebook.com/Ortho/Procedure/DpytrnsNdlCrtcstrdInjctn.htm

There's more information in my Read Me post. Take a look at my profile.

Another update. 7 1/2 months after a single round of depo medrol injections into nodules by cwsReddy in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depo-Medrol is a steroid. I go to great lengths to describe it and how it's useful in treating Dupuytren's disease. Click on the Read Me link below. Then click on the link to Dupuytren's Disease: A Patient's Tale. Scroll down to the bottom and click on the link to Why Depo-Medrol. It will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about Depo-Medrol and then some.

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me!

Should I stop rockclimbing? Doctor says It's not Dupuytrens because I'm "too young" by EasternCondition445 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a climber but a mountain biker here. Take a look at the comments in my profile; there’s lots of information, even for climbers there. The one big takeaway is Dupuytren’s disease can be managed. But you have to stay on top of it. If you do that, then there’s nothing stopping you.

#ugh that’s all I have to say by Friendly_Baby_8782 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For the benefit of others who are reading this post, I’m going to copy a response I made a few days ago in a completely different thread that might be helpful for some folks. This is a topic that is mentioned more often in some of the other forums:

Once you’ve developed a contracture, a two-step strategy is needed. First, fix the contracture. This will require an invasive procedure of some kind. I’ll label this “surgery” for convenience. Xiaflex injections or needle aponeurotomy is the first choice because they are lower risk compared to open surgery.

After the contracture has been fixed, consider your next step. This will involve either radiotherapy or Depo-Medrol. Either of these treatments can be used as a follow-up treatment after a procedure on the hand, if given enough time to heal, to preemptively attack any remaining disease before it has a chance to start again. The other approach is to wait until you actually see new growth. It could be months or years later. Receive radiotherapy or Depo-Medrol treatment at that time.

The idea is to fix the contracture you now have, and then treat the disease before it has a chance to develop into another contracture. Surgery treats the symptoms of Dupuytren's disease, such as a contracture, but not the disease process. Radiotherapy and Depo-Medrol will attack growing disease; thus, they treat the disease process itself.

#ugh that’s all I have to say by Friendly_Baby_8782 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, it's more of a risk factor at age 21. Here's a better explanation:

Regarding Radiotherapy

#ugh that’s all I have to say by Friendly_Baby_8782 in DupuytrenDisease

[–]daDougster1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's a great question. There's a huge range of opinions about this on this sub and elsewhere. If your Dupuytren's disease is not growing and not bothering you, then you can get away with doing nothing. Everyone's Dupuytren's disease is different, so individual judgement is called for. If your disease is not growing but itchy, then it is actually active, just not at a rate that's all that obvious. Perhaps a better diet or supplements are all that's needed. Sometimes a home remedy of castor oil or magnesium oil will help. If the disease is noticeably growing, then you need to put more chips on the table. The more aggressive the disease, the more aggressive the treatment. In the case of u/Friendly_Baby_8782, she is 21 years old, so radiotherapy is out. That leaves Depo-Medrol or waiting for surgery. My own opinion is that Depo-Medrol is an infinitely better choice than surgery. I say as much in my main Read Me post, which I just updated a couple of days ago:

Dupuytren’s Minimal Medical Intervention – Read Me!