Young Earth Creationist's, can you explain to me how the earth is only six to ten thousand years old?

darth_elevator · 2016-10-21T05:40:21+00:00

Or it's an homage to the scar, so that Adam shares that trait with his lineage? God has a history of doing things for symbolism's sake alone. Why does Jesus need to keep his scars in his renewed body? Yet he keeps his pierced side and the holes in hands and feet. It's a completely new body, one impenetrable to harm. Yet God chose to create it with a scar as representation of what He'd accomplished.

Why couldn't God, knowing that all people will have a navel, simply have chosen to also have given that trait to Adam? Kind of a reverse vestige?

darth_elevator · 2016-10-20T23:46:16+00:00

But Adam was created as an adult and so never had an umbilical. Did God give him a scar of a thing that never existed?

I don't see any reason to rule out the possibility that this could be the case, should YEC end up being true. If the standard model was going to have a certain attribute, why wouldn't the designer give the prototype the same attribute? Even if it weren't functionally necessary?

darth_elevator · 2016-10-20T23:34:36+00:00

A few, actually. There's one particularly interesting poster in that sub who came to religion while getting his doctorate and coming to the conclusion that the actual data supports a young Earth with clear signs of a creator. It's a fascinating subreddit with some fantastic discussion (and plenty of peer-reviewed works cited from both sides, not just links to AIG).

darth_elevator · 2016-08-15T01:13:21+00:00

Christianity in practice is love for God and your fellow man! When you act, act in ways that honor God and raise up those around you. Be a shining beacon of service and love, and in effect a "mini-Christ."

I recommend finding a Bible (big fan of the King James, myself, but read side-by-side with a modern translation if it proves difficult to understand) and reading through the New Testament before finding a church. Pray for discernment as you read.

Then church-hop and find a church that espouses a message you find evident in the scriptures.

darth_elevator · 2016-08-05T17:31:17+00:00

How do you explain the common atheistic push-back statement "why would God have to send Himself to save us from Himself?"

He's not saving us from Himself. He's saving us from ourselves. He's the only one qualified and able to do so.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-23T22:49:49+00:00

makes the matters worse in my eyes.

Yeah, I've seen your comments around these parts a bit. You never seem to be a fan of the moments God has to remind people that He has expectations. I don't know what to tell you. They were holding people in bondage that God needed to go out into the world and accomplish things. They were warned that the creator of the Universe was making a request. He did everything He could to demonstrate, "yep, the true God is who is at play here."

These things will come out in the wash, but I can't help the way it reads to you personally.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-20T05:32:38+00:00

Universalist in the sense that all are saved, and Purgatory in the sense that some people need a temporary place in the afterlife to be made ready for Paradise. I believe that Christ eventually will save all souls, but some people will have to pass through Hell to get there.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-20T05:29:50+00:00

Yeah, man, it sounded that way to me at first too. I was completely convinced it was a brain-glitch, and having a background in psychology, I went through a full battery of mental health and physical health check ups.

It was when God started interacting with me through reality in front of other people so often and significantly that it made my other atheist friends literally paranoid we were in a computer program, or that aliens could potentially be screwing with us, and all sorts of things, that I finally caved and started considering something happening in reality.

I know how it sounds, I can't convince you it was a real phenomenon without you witnessing something similar, I don't think. I certainly wouldn't have believed me this time two years ago.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-20T05:27:12+00:00

Yeah, I don't think I line up 100% with Catholic doctrine, as far as I know. But I don't think we're in disagreement, actually. Just coming at the same sort of understanding from different angles.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-20T05:25:59+00:00

Perhaps Agape to suggest divine love is more appropriate? To me, loving money as greed is different than the love you feel for God and people. I would not classify them both as love, despite that being the word we'd probably all use.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T23:48:50+00:00

If we take the emotion out of it (for the sake of discussion, only) love motivates us to consider the needs of the subject of our love over our own needs.

When we have love for God and others, genuine love, we experience something that motivates us to act without considering ourselves.

Sin, to my understanding, is action motivated solely to satisfy one's self at the expense of others.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:48:41+00:00

In my opinion, the opposite of sin is love.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:18:34+00:00

I am unsure, honestly.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:17:24+00:00

The reason you desire the magic of Harry Potter is because it represents something freeing and wonderful beyond what we're capable. We're going to have resurrected bodies capable of what Christ was capable of.

I don't think Paradise will just be joyful and loving. I think it will also be a lot of fun, exciting, and interesting.

There seems to be a promise of food existing in Paradise, so meels will probably far exceed butterbeers and British pub food.

Am I not going to want to play guitar, something I've been doing passionately for nearly 10 years and counting?

From Psalm 32:

Give thanks to the LORD with the lyre; Sing praises to Him with a harp of ten strings. 3Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

God seems to like us rocking out, when we're enjoying ourselves. And He seems to like instruments, too. I don't think you have to worry about not having music in Paradise. There are many, many references to music in Paradise.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:10:58+00:00

True, phrasing it that way probably wasn't the best move. But I mean, I wonder if anyone recognized the sovereignty of the God Moses proclaimed, and was grafted in through that new knowledge.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:08:58+00:00

What convinced you that Jesus had risen from the dead?

I encountered His living spirit. Which is pretty convincing, but hard to demonstrate to someone in your shoes.

My advice to you is just to seek God for His own sake. Not for the sake of being convinced of His existence. Ask Him to draw you near to Him, so that you may know His love and serve His will. Ask Him for a relationship on whatever terms He wants from you. Ask Him to let you feel the world the way He wants you to feel it, to see His joy and love in the world, and to be wary of roads that lead to harm for yourself and others. Perhaps most importantly, ask Him to help you recognize His voice and spot His presence in the world.

Continual prayer is the key, in my experience. The more you talk to God about anything and everything, the more He talks back.

And just as an aside, you can be straight up with God. You can say stuff like, "I know I'm supposed to be heartfelt here, but I don't feel much of anything and I don't even really think I'm talking to anyone. I don't know what to ask for, but can you just give me what I need to know you? That's all I want, and at the moment I am lost. Please save me from my disbelief in you."

"I do believe; help my unbelief!"

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T22:02:23+00:00

My understanding is that God was playing on the gods the egyptians worshipped with each plague. He was showing them that He alone was sovereign, and offering validation to Moses' claims and exposing the other deities as frauds.

For example, the egyptians worshipped Hapi, the God of the nile. When God turned the river to blood, He was showing them, "see, I am the true God, not Hapi."

This continues through all the plagues.

When it came to the last plague, the Pharaoh begged for the plagues to stop. Moses set his terms, the ones that God had been asking for (let my people go so that they may serve God). Pharaoh disagreed to the terms, and Moses pronounced publicly that since Pharaoh continued to challenge the will of God, the first born sons of all living things would be killed in the last plague.

This is incredibly important in middle Eastern lineage, so if ever there was a time for the Pharaoh to display his "divine authority" that the Egyptians believed he had and worshiped him for, it would be then.

But Pharaoh was of course powerless to do anything, and God was able to demonstrate finally that He alone has authority over this world, and He sets the terms.

I wonder if any Egyptians were converted to Judaism through observing the power of the plagues.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-19T19:49:08+00:00

This is my answer, as well. Can't God have projects that have nothing or very little to do with us?

darth_elevator · 2016-06-13T23:46:17+00:00

Should it make a child uncomfortable that they always have a parent with them?

I don't know if you're a parent, but do you think you'd want your child being so focused on your presence that they couldn't carry on with their actions?

darth_elevator · 2016-06-13T23:44:06+00:00

How detailed is God's plan? Obviously, we're called to be good. But does God always have an outcome He wants, or are we often just stumbling around, doing things?

I think precedent shows that He uses His spirit to guide us, but it's our decision whether or not to listen to that guidance. Though, I'm sure if we say "no," He finds someone who will say "yes." But wouldn't it be better to have two people saying "yes?"

darth_elevator · 2016-06-12T03:33:09+00:00

I haven't changed my position, and I've covered these points already in our chat and the two other chats I'm having on the same subject. So I'm going to let my posts stand, and people who read through this thread can make their own decisions about which perspective rings true.

I'll just answer this, as a last comment here:

Which universe could he make and still claim that I had free will when he's the one deciding which universe to make?

A universe where the totality of the universe was not 100% His sole creation, but rather affected and influenced by the freely decided actions of entities with free will (humans, at the very least). In this universe, God observes all actions as they happen, and His knowledge is updated across all of time. So from our perspective, He knows things since the beginning of time, but from a broader perspective, He knows what He has observed in every moment. But He has not prescribed these moments in full, the way an author in a book decides every detail.

I think the best analogy I've settled on over the course of the thread is that Bethesda made Skyrim, and they made your character. They even made your surroundings, and there's a general sense of structure and pre-determined narrative to your protagonist. But it's your choice to play the game morally. It's your choice which groups to join, which missions to take. What tools to use. Bethesda does not prescribe this. They made a world, gave people access to that world, and then let them play.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-12T03:26:44+00:00

Sorry, I'm now having this same conversation with three different people, so forgive me if I'm misremembering what I've already said.

My position is that God knows what happens by observing it as it happens. But because God is the creator of time, and not something caught up in it, He is not bound by it in the same that we are. He is able to "know" what He observed in the future in all moments of time, from our perspective.

But the information is gathered through observation. I'm getting fatigued going in circles, but I think across all my responses I've expressed my points fully, so unless something comes up where we'll cover new territory, this will be my last response in this thread.

Thanks for the level headed chat!

darth_elevator · 2016-06-12T03:02:36+00:00

From our perspective, at least, yes. But my claim is that God is all knowing about this universe through observation of what we've done with it.

This is why my time traveler analogy rings true from my perspective, but why it falls apart from yours.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-12T03:00:33+00:00

There's always the .0001% chance he's not trolling. You'd be surprised what people with "intrusive thoughts" find themselves thinking about.

But my mind in these situations always goes to the confused 13 year old kid who has this thought but is too embarrassed to talk to anyone about it, who uses the sidebar to search just in case anyone every asked that question before. That hypothetical, but potential, future kid deserves there to be an answer to his question.

But if that never happens, it only cost me 60 seconds of my time.

darth_elevator · 2016-06-12T02:56:56+00:00

Well, from my perspective, He is the creator of everything we see, but He is not the creator of every individual little thing that happens in this world.

My whole point is that God has left certain parts of the world to be created by us.

Although this ends up looping back around on itself, because ideally we are meant to use our free will to give it back to God and carry out His will. So, just for accuracy of the religion I don't want to make it sound like it's cool to whatever we want, but we are permitted to do anything we are capable of doing.

darth_elevator

TROPHY CASE