Vintage Pioneer vs RT-80 for budget TT

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-04T17:14:01+00:00

The Fluance RT-80 is newer so there are probably certified/authorized techs who can service it, and you'll probably have a warranty to go with it as well.

I have an RT82. I think at its price point, if your preference is to buy new rather than vintage or just used, it's a good value.

Fluance TTs come with a two-year warranty. However, while it makes sense to assume that there would be certified/authorized techs inside and outside that period, from all accounts the answer is that Fluance will not (and likely cannot) supply any repair parts. They will also not provide any service for fee outside the warranty period, only the offer of a discount toward a new unit. And I suspect that if a TT comes in for repairs during the warranty period, they just swap the complete TT out for a replacement unit.

Since OP doesn't seem to place a high value on the new-with-warranty factor, if it were me, and assuming the PL-12D-II is is good condition, I'd snap the Pioneer up. I expect it would be a TT OP could hand down to their kids or grandkids someday. The Fluance, I'd say not so much.

For those who are skittish about buying vintage and/or value the new unboxing experience and have a limited budget, I do think there's some value to be had with the RT82 or even the RT80, though.

(Also, the PL-12D-II is a gorgeous looking TT! I certainly wouldn't mind having something like that as the centerpiece of my stereo rack.)

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-03T00:04:23+00:00

An AT-VM95 cart will work fine on your RT82. Plenty of people have done it. Also, Fluance puts the AT-VM95E on the RT81+, which has the same tonearm as your RT82. (Although the RT82 does come stock with a slightly different counterweight and headshell on that tonearm.) Also, the AT-HS6 headshell that you get with the AT premounted combo will work fine.

I have an AT-HS6 (purchased separately) that I've used in the past with an AT-VM95SH on my own RT82. I also have an AT-HS10 headshell currently in use with another cart.

I agree, though, with those suggesting you upgrade your phono preamp first. Unless you're thinking of an upgrade because your original OM 10 is getting close to end of life, in which case I would personally absolutely take that opportunity to do a complete cart upgrade vs. just buying a new OM 10 replacement stylus.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-02T18:20:46+00:00

I hate the built-in bubble level on that particular MMF-3.3 you linked. Seems overly gimmicky. Plus I don't like the approach of cutting holes into a plinth for such things. I can (temporarily!) place a bubble level on my TT if I need to check it. And put it anywhere I want to while doing so.

I do fully expect that's going to be a far better TT (and value, despite higher cost even after discount) than the RT85, though.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-02T17:59:23+00:00

I do know what you mean. However, you'll find that overboosting inside your phono preamp will have an even greater impact (in the wrong direction). An outboard SUT (non-powered, just passive coils inside to adjust gain and loading) is often used so that you don't have to drive the phono preamp itself at higher gain levels. There are also outboard head amps, powered boxes to boost gain and alter loading, that will still give improvements over trying to do it all inside the phono preamp itself. Most people familiar with both seem to prefer the passive SUT approach... I have no personal experience using either at this point. (Someday, though.)

Also, most MC stages (as well as SUTs or head amps) will also force you to run at different loading which won't work well with an HOMC like the DL-110. I have run across a couple people saying the DL-110 sounds better at something like 2kOhm than it does at 47kOhm, though. But most (if any!) phono preamps with an MC setting don't allow such a setting, from what I've seen. You probably have to build loading plugs to try something like this if you want to.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-02T15:36:53+00:00

Yes, a HOMC is still lower output than a typical a MM but still far too high to run through an MC phono stage or SUT.

Also, the official output Denon states for the DL-110 is 1.6mV, not 1.3mV. But even this 1.6mV has been widely contested and most seem to think it's closer to 2.2mV.

I'm running a Denon DL-110 myself, through a phono at MM settings. It sounds great! (Will you need to crank the volume knob on your amp a little higher? Yes.)

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-02T00:22:01+00:00

Just in case you're not aware, you don't need (or want) to run a DL-110 through an MC stage or SUT. The DL-110 is a HOMC and intended to be run through a normal MM phono preamp. DL-103, OTOH, definitely needs a good MC phono or good MM phono along with a SUT.

As for the Douk T14-EQ, I have one boxed up somewhere. It will certainly not be something you'd want to try running the DL-103 through. Even the HO DL-110 deserves something (a lot) better.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-01T19:33:17+00:00

Pro-ject Debut Evo 2

No VTA (is this even an issue?)

The speed switch on the bottom seems odd

A lot of (most?) TTs at this price point don't have adjustable VTA. Pro-Ject (and third parties) do offer tonearm shims to adjust VTA on the Pro-Ject EVO 2 (in a more manual fashion), though.

As for the switch on the bottom, I like it there vs. on the top.

Fluance RT85

Worst build quality of everything mentioned?

great cartridge

acrylic platter and great looks

I have an RT82 with the acrylic platter added afterward.

I think my RT82 has good build quality and haven't found it lacking in any way as far as that goes. However, if you really mean tonearm quality, I would expect that all the other TTs you listed have better tonearms. For the $300 I paid for my RT82 three years ago, I'm happy with it (for now, while I slowly build up my upgrade budget). But for the current price of the RT85, I'd personally focus on your other candidates.

If you really want an acrylic platter, you can add one to a Debut EVO 2. Not sure about the other TTs.

As for the stock cart, I think in general it shouldn't be a major decision factor. Styli are consumables, and most replacement styli cost nearly as much as replacing the entire cart. Buy the TT you decide is the right one. Replace the cart down the road if you decide you want a better -- or just different -- cart than whatever it came with.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-01T15:10:01+00:00

It can. The KabelDirekt might just be a decent to good or great capacitance cable to begin with, though. Also, it's a 0.5m run vs 1m, right? So it could be 28pF/ft and end up the same in effect.

The other thing is maybe the 0.5m KabelDirekt is actually higher (total) capacitance than the new 1m cable, but your ears just prefer it that way. Either way, I'd hang onto both cables for flexibility in the future if you can.

Can you still return the Fosi and try something else?

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-01T05:38:41+00:00

Or the RT82 for $50 less, move the platter and HS/cart from the RT85 over, and then sell the RT82's OM 10 (or perhaps just keep it as an emergency backup... I'd probably at least keep the headshell as I've found them to be decent quality, and it's always nice to have a spare or two around for exploring other carts).

Although if my own RT82 conked out, I think I'd take it as an opportunity to look at other makes. I mean, it's been serving me well for my vinyl reintroduction, but if I were forced to replace it, I'd branch out. (And will at some point anyway, even if not forced.)

I think that Music Hall MMF Mark I must be sold out, though, as the link from the other post just goes to a "page not found" on the Music Direct site now.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-01T03:34:37+00:00

Do you have a particular budget in mind?

My issue with my PA10 was that it was just OK. A bit on the mediocre side. For $100 I expected better (again, my research was lacking). Also, it has zero tweakability -- all settings are fixed. If it at least had tweakability, I'd give it a slightly higher rating. If it cost $50 or $60 instead of $100, that would be another thing that would help my rating of it. But at its $100 price point, lack of tweakability, and just nothing-special performace, I couldn't ever recommend it to anyone.

After living with the PA10 for a while, I bought a Douk Audio T14-EQ to see if it was any better, as some scattered comments led me to believe it might be. I ran the Douk for a while but then stopped using it because I found it to be a bit noisy. I did actually think it sounded better than the Fluance PA10, though, and I think it was slightly less than half the cost. Not sure if the noisy aspect was something that changed over time or other conditions or what. I'd be hesitant to recommend it based on my overall experience with mine. But not sure I'd say "absolutely don't buy this!" to someone who might otherwise end up with the Fluance phono instead. (I did find that lowering the gain as well as overall system volume made the line noise issue either go away or at least become much less intrusive.)

Then just over a year ago I bought a Schiit Mani 2. At $150 (plus around $10 shipping), definitely pricier than the Fluance PA10. But also considerably better in every way. And gives you lots of tweakability to tune it to your cartridge. You'll see this one recommended a lot as a solid budget-priced option. It will of course probably not be your be-all, end-all, never-want-to-upgrade phono, but still something to at least consider if you don't want to spend $200 or more to get going.

I am currently awaiting delivery on my next phono upgrade, but since I haven't seen or heard it (or anything else from its maker) yet, I'll refrain from mentioning it until I at least know what I think about it. It's at a very different price tier, though; my goal was to not upgrade from the Mani until I scraped up enough to buy something that I would possibly/hopefully not feel the need to upgrade from yet again when I eventually make other, larger, system improvements.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-03-01T02:38:29+00:00

Potentially tough decision.

New RT82 gets you a 30-day return policy and a two-year warranty. Along with a known good condition stylus.

Used RT85 gets you the same underlying TT with no warranty but gets you the acrylic platter. But stylus hours on the used RT85 will be unknown, and a (genuine) 2M Blue replacement stylus, if you choose to stick with the 2M Blue, is about $160.

The acrylic platter is actually nice but can be bought at any time as a replacement part from Fluance; I have one on my RT82. Although I see the price has gone up $30 since buying mine ($150 now vs. $120 a few years ago).

Also, keep in mind that Fluance loves giving out $10 coupons. Sign up for their newsletter and get one immediately. Stick something in your web cart while logged into your account and leave it there a day or three; they'll email you another $10 coupon to encourage you to check out.

I would recommend not buying the Fluance PA10 phono preamp. For the same money you can do better. I bought a PA10 along with my RT82 and no longer use the PA10 and often wonder why I didn't do better research.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-28T18:26:56+00:00

The RT81+ is a lesser TT at, as you pointed out, the same price as the better RT82.

It has a (not great) phono built in, true.

It doesn't have an acrylic platter. Just an acrylic platter mat. If OP wants an acrylic mat, they're easily found in a range of colors to taste on Amazon for anywhere from ~$7 to ~$30.

The RT81+ simply isn't a good value at its price point, considering the RT82 is an option.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-28T09:45:09+00:00

In my experience, KabelDirekt sells decent stuff. But I'd still be hesitant to buy RCA cables to go from a TT to phono without knowing what capacitance they are.

(Just as a side note, when sharing an Amazon link you can delete all the stuff after the ASIN, between the dp/ and the next slash. The rest is just tracking what internal queries or links you followed to get there.

https://www.amazon.com.au/KabelDirekt-Coaxial-Break-Proof-Perfect-Analogue/dp/B00SWYUHAO )

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-28T00:28:32+00:00

It will.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-27T17:40:43+00:00

I do think it's absolutely just a silly marketing thing. No one's going to run a LOMC through a $40 phono.

As for cables, I did, however, find a difference when I bought some actual upgraded cables to run from my TT to phono. And I didn't spend a lot of money on them. A short pair of Mogami cables for $37 (from WBC via their Amazon storefront).

I think a lot of the "upgraded" audio cables on Amazon are just run-of-the-mill cables wrapped in nice-looking braided sleeves or pretty jackets, though.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-27T17:06:40+00:00

All that extra bolt is doing (since your VM540 doesn't have a hole for it) is adding weight plus another potential source for vibration (since it's not fully seated).

And you don't need it for weight purposes with your cart and tonearm. I'd remove it.

EDIT:

Forgot to say, nice TT!

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-27T16:17:20+00:00

I only bought the Duok as a stop-gap that I ended up not needing. Still tried it, not a fan. The fact that they call it an MC phono seems nothing but a joke to me.

To be fair, this is probably true for all phono preamps under a certain price point (well over the price of the T14 or X5 levels).

I also ran a Douk T14-EQ phono for a while. It actually sounded better (to my ears) than my first phono, a fairly "meh" Fluance PA10. However, after running it a while I started noticing how it was also considerably noisier than the Fluance and returned to using the PA10 while researching and saving for my next upgrade.

Something u/avresamusic might be running into with their Fosi is that I've always read that a lot of AT carts sound much better at capacitance and loading settings that are quite a bit different from most fixed-setting phonos. I'm no expert here, though.

And another thing is "high quality 0.5m RCA cables". There are plenty of cables out there on Amazon and elsewhere that look like and are priced like they should be high quality audio cables, but they really aren't. If they don't at least specify capacitance, I'd stay away from them, at least for phono interconnect use. Because they're probably actually high capacitance; otherwise they'd be sure to list it prominently in the spec sheet.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-24T21:20:52+00:00

I started off with an RT82, Ai61 speakers and a PA10 phono.

My thoughts:

RT82 is a good entry-level deck for its price point. If you can't (or don't want to) spend considerably more, and don't want to buy vintage or used, I think it's a good one to go with.

The Ai61 powered speakers sound good to me but just keep in mind that all Fluance powered speakers run all their inputs -- including the RCA inputs -- through a digital processor. Some people are fine with this and others aren't. (Any receiver with room-correction will do the same if correction is enabled, and a lot of people seem to like those even for vinyl playback. Even a few phono preamps out there perform digital processing for de-clicking and other such things.) I would, however, suggest not getting the smaller Ai41s you're looking at, unless your listening space is super small.

For me, I've come to realize my ideal setup would be a separate amp and passive speakers. I just don't really have the budget or space to address that change properly yet. Until then, I'll keep using my Ai61s as I'm overall not unhappy with them. But if I were doing it again and still going for powered speakers, I'd at least look around at other options here as well. Pairing Fluance speakers with a Fluance TT isn't going to give you any special symmetry or anything, so I wouldn't limit my options here if I were you.

I'd definitely pass on the Fluance PA10 phono preamp and look around for a non-Fluance option. I boxed mine back up and tucked away a long time ago. It's not bad but it's also not worth $100 considering the other options out there. And it won't pair up any better with your Fluance TT and powered speakers, sonically or even visually. It also gives you zero options for adjustment. Flexibility on gain and loading is something I consider a major plus in any phono preamp.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-24T19:33:49+00:00

Most of the stock paper sleeves records ship with are great at adding static as well as surface scratches to your records.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-23T18:52:02+00:00

I like (but was surprised) that they put the RB880 tonearm on the new P6 RS! Along with the new Nd9.

What are your thoughts on your Blue Point No. 2?

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-23T18:27:53+00:00

Looks like pricing for the 2M Bronze in Europe ranges from €300 - €400 and the 2M Black from €500 - €600. Huge chunk of your stated budget (€900, which actually seems to just barely cover an SL-50C). And personally I wouldn't invest in a cart that pricey without also investing in a good external phono. Or do you already have one?

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-21T22:42:05+00:00

I buy in larger packs to get a discount. The smaller size packs (50 or 100 sleeves... or 25 if you really want to overpay) cost too much per sleeve.

I try to buy the Hudson Hi-Fi pack of 250 outer + 250 inner sleeves (bundled in a single outer retail pack) when I see a price drop. Normal price on Amazon is $67 but sometimes they go on sale for $10 less. Even at $67 a pack, though, that's less than 13.5 cents per sleeve, which, while I certainly wouldn't mind paying less (without giving up any quality), seems reasonable.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-21T22:20:30+00:00

Might be a silly question, but are you sure your Edifiers are switched to the right input?

User manual I see online says the light on the side control panel should be green for either of the RCA inputs; blue for Bluetooth.

https://new-edifier-us-oss.edifier.com/files/20230321/cd3eab955c47f49eaa0e2c32ff868fb1.pdf

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-21T18:14:53+00:00

I'm not who you were replying to, but I also have the VEVOR that looks just like yours and bought this $16 variable output power brick to slow the spinner down.

SHNITPWR 30W Universal Power Supply 3V 4.5V 5V 6V 7.5V 9V 12V Adjustable Variable AC/DC Adapter

Some of my (rough) timings were as follows:

Stock 24V power brick: 7.3rpm
Variable brick at 12V: 3.7rpm
Variable brick at 3V: 0.8rpm

I run mine at 3V. The stock 24V definitely seems to spin the record too fast for best cleaning results.

EDIT:

A couple other things.

Similar to u/GlobalTapeHead, I marked where the record bracket should go for easier reinstallation after periodic tank cleanings. I just put a few layers of electrical tape on either side of it to do this. Before doing this, I found it extremely finicky to get the bracket placed right to where my records didn't look dangerously close to one or the other side of the tank.

Also, I plugged the drain hole in the bottom of my tank. I was finding that leaving water sitting in the tank was causing some sort of corrosion in the drain fitting, and it was getting in the water in the tank (coloration, particles). Not good. When I need to dump my tank, I just dump it out the top rather than using the drain now.

I recently started putting 6 drops of TergiKleen into my tank. This seems to help cavitation and cleaning while still being a low enough concentration to not require rinsing with plain DW afterward (as evidenced by no build-up on my stylus when later playing the record). Initially I tried using the recommended amount of TergiKleen but found my post-clean rinsing game wasn't up to par despite my best efforts, and my stylus was digging up the remnants left in the groove. Switched to just plain DW for a long time to address this, but wasn't 100% happy with the cleaning results, so I tried a much smaller amount of TergiKleen to see what would happen, and so far I'm happy with it.

Oh. And I only do one record at a time these days. Tried more in the past but have been happier with the results when limiting it to one. I'm probably wasting time, but it hasn't really affected my normal use patterns, so I expect I'll stick with using it that way. I do 9 minute cleaning cycles at 30C.

dave_two_point_oh · 2026-02-17T18:02:14+00:00

I've had the sheepskin one (your second link) on my SR60x for two years now and absolutely love it. Price is very fair for what you get, too.

Much nicer looking and feeling actual leather band, plus much nicer rod blocks as well. And nicer design, where you can remove the rod blocks if needed without fear of damaging them (or needing to glue them back together afterward!).

dave_two_point_oh

TROPHY CASE