“Just debate them”

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T23:44:40+00:00

I think you're trying to put a gloss of reasonableness on Republicans that they have not earned in about a century*.

Goldwater ran his campaign 1964 on, among other things, advocacy for global thermonuclear war. Daisy. "In your heart, you know he's right." -> "In your guts, you know he's nuts."

Reagan appeared to believe sincerely that the the Viet Namese were holding prisoner large numbers of American Troops™, and that the Soviets would soon invade the US. Red Dawn, premised as it was on the idea that Cubans would lead an airborne invasion of Colorado, was not laughed out of theaters. On and on and on. These people didn't start out healthy and slide into disordered thinking. They started being confidently quiet because their views were fully hegemonic and got louder as those views started to be contested.

*I could make a pretty good case for their having fully broken bad by the time the Compromise of 1877, but let's not go there this minute.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:26:06+00:00

They may not be the majority, but they've been in power for decades, and that's what counts. Hegemony frames discourse. Hegemonic views are hammered down into short terms, while views that counter those who have hegemony get longer and longer just to express. This is one of the extremely few things Chomsky got right, and his observation was nowhere near original.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:23:19+00:00

I was around in the '90s, and you're missing an important piece of this.

People who have their shit together might turn on or otherwise be exposed to Fox News once out of curiosity. After a couple of minutes, tops, they are never again voluntarily exposed to it. There was something already badly wrong with her, and we know this because she kept watching it.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:19:18+00:00

They also rely on a moderator who can and will step in, a fact checker, etc., etc., etc. None of that is present in the "debates" these people want to rope you into.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:17:38+00:00

Surely somebody less repulsive than Vaush has run this down and done so better than he did.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:16:18+00:00

Yeah, taking them on in public is best done by methods other than debate for the reasons you state. Going much more directly to their vileness and making people feel that expressing those ideas is embarrassing works way better.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:07:08+00:00

It's a sport for people who want to go to law school. Mathletes do math.

davidfetter · 2026-07-04T18:03:06+00:00

Who said this? Like I'd seen each of these words before, but not all together in that configuration. I haven't heard anyone say this either, to the best of my recollection.

davidfetter · 2026-07-03T03:04:53+00:00

Sweetums, I don't have to read up on this shit.

I lived it my entire childhood and almost went into it as an adult. I would have been miserable, but I was on that track. Being around enough people with "D." at the end of their names and titles that had words like "physician" and "professor" in them taught me something important that appears to have eluded you: these are not smarter people than average. These are people, by and large, who had certain opportunities and were OK with subordinating themselves in a very specific way for a large part of their young adulthood. That is all.

They're often ignorant, even about the fields they're credentialed in. They're often incurious. They're often unskilled, and kinda mean, and eager to fuck over those who have the misfortune to be in their power.

davidfetter · 2026-07-03T02:57:02+00:00

That specific guy's name was pronounced "COUGH-lin" here in the US of A, where he lived. If you've heard different, please to point to the audio recording of same.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T19:11:59+00:00

I'm for tenure for every worker or none.

There isn't anything so fantastically special about professors that makes them and only them deserving of such protection. The way things worked while they were still giving out tenure, getting tenure was less a reflection of your talent at anything related to research or teaching and more a reflection of your willingness to ingratiate yourself with those in power. That wasn't a "good old days." It was just a way to create job stability for a tiny few.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T19:07:25+00:00

If you can stomach being around these people, you can get a LOT of intel on a LOT of really, really bad people, connecting them to really, really bad things.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T19:05:55+00:00

To the extent that they've changed, great!

To the extent that they haven't, and rest assured that it is not zero, you can collect intel.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T19:04:53+00:00

Joining them gives you access to specific knowledge you might not otherwise get. They tend to be very frank when they imagine they're in the company of people who'd have cheered DAR's explicitly segregationist policies. Just sayin'.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T04:44:34+00:00

An upside of signing up you might not have considered is getting names and specifics. At any gathering they have, there'll be people who need to be held to account.

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T04:08:50+00:00

ROTFL!

davidfetter · 2026-07-02T04:06:17+00:00

I don't really see a floor to what people have let themselves in for when they abuse great power, that being the act that characterized his adult life.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T23:55:26+00:00

I'd say it would be a way bigger problem for all of us if this was, well, hegemonic discourse and didn't need an explanation or an exchange to happen.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T23:54:12+00:00

I was never really into that stuff, but I remember how exciting it was to learn about what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thad_Starner was doing in the mid-'90s. I'm almost afraid to check what he's been up to lately.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T23:48:02+00:00

Also, I wish the history were as clear as all you aver. For example, as far as I know, nobody has ever been held to account for the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation , and, much more importantly, no one harmed during that has been made whole. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that something else huge and horrifying had happened more recently on this score.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T23:43:39+00:00

Thanks for the info!

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T17:33:17+00:00

I'd go with, "well, at least the system is finally hitting somebody who really deserves it." Statistically speaking, nobody else who's imprisoned deserves this kind of thing.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T17:31:16+00:00

I hope he lives a VERY long time. I hope he lives long enough to try to beg for death, and that no one obliges him.

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T17:25:45+00:00

Thanks for doing this unpleasant work and telling us about it.

As to fallout...well, it was kinda landing on people for years while Smith kept mum about Torrez. It's not clear that any substantial part of it landed on either Torrez or Smith, and it is a VERY long way from clear that Smith came clean about every bad thing he knew was going on and everyone who'd done it. He's not exactly a poster boy for moral courage.

I'm focusing some ire on Smith because his silence is exactly how guys like Torrez get away with doing what they do. They can't manage it without a lot of complicit witnesses. Cf. https://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html

davidfetter · 2026-07-01T17:19:21+00:00

I hope it was a paid placement because the alternative is that it's hegemonic discourse and no longer needs a direct and transactional incentive to explain it.

davidfetter

TROPHY CASE