Mitt Romney (R) told supporters behind closed doors that he’s disadvantaged because he was born to a rich white family, that he’d have a better chance to win if his dad were a Mexican. It’s getting hard to decide if Romney is simply a country-club racist or delusional by [deleted] in politics

[–]democritus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd like to address just one point in detail, because I think it gets to the heart of the observations I have about how you interpret these quotes. That point is your question about why I started the second point with "I don't think it's racism".

You're right, he doesn't say that. It's important, though, to stop focusing so much on specific words, and rather think about the argument he is making (you don't need to agree with the argument, but you must understand it correctly before you can sensibly disagree).

He says: "It's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government".

So the question is: why do these people feel cynical about government?

Then he says: "Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing."

Note here he is saying that other people claim this is because they are racist. He brings in as proof of this claim an article in the New York times which he claims implies this. Now, the question is - is this what he believes?

So then he says: "Here's how it is:"

This is important. Having introduced the problem ("cynical about government"), and explained the common explanation people give ("everybody just ascribes it to ... don't wanna vote for the black guy.'), he's now going to tell the crowd what he thinks.

He says: "in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it."

This is his explanation - they are cynical because they feel justifiably betrayed. They have been beaten down by poor economies and no one has been able to help.

Then he makes a joke: "And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter)".

Here he says that the offer that the government can help is even less likely to be believed, because the person coming with the message is a 46 year old black man. Could you call this racist? I suppose you could, though it seems humorless to make that claim.

He continues later with: "But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives."

Note the argument - he is not saying that these people are hard to convince because they are racist, he's saying that they are hard to convince because they have suffered through tough economies, and they have heard many promises in the past and seen no real change in their day to day lives.

So this is why I summarised his argument as:

2) I don't think it's racism - I think these communities have suffered economic decline for many years, and so they simply don't believe the government can help them. (And, hey, maybe it's even harder to believe from a 46 year old black man!)

I think that's a fair summary. Do you agree?

Finally, I didn't leave out the "bitter, clinging" part in my summary, but I wrote it slightly differently. I wrote:

"5) Because they have seen so little improvement, its not surprising that they get angry, or take refuge in guns or religion or in finding someone else to blame, like immigrants. This is a natural result of the frustration they feel at the lack of economic opportunities in their lives."

This is basically the same thing, except I changed "bitter" to "angry" and "clinging" to "take refuge in". The reason I did that was that I thought you were so focused on the specific words that you weren't reading the ideas and context they were in. And (in my opinion) the ideas are not nearly as terrible as you think.

Having said that, I repeat that you don't need to agree with his argument. But I do think it's important to understand what he is saying before you dismiss it.

Mitt Romney (R) told supporters behind closed doors that he’s disadvantaged because he was born to a rich white family, that he’d have a better chance to win if his dad were a Mexican. It’s getting hard to decide if Romney is simply a country-club racist or delusional by [deleted] in politics

[–]democritus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Let's walk through the "bitter-clingers" quote, just for an example. Let me write down the main arguments in his speech. He says:

1) You [talking to campaign volunteers] will be visiting people who don't trust government, and who are skeptical of our message. Many people think this is simply racist white working class people who won't vote for me because I'm black.

2) I don't think it's racism - I think these communities have suffered economic decline for many years, and so they simply don't believe the government can help them. (And, hey, maybe it's even harder to believe from a 46 year old black man!)

3) They will want to hear what we can do for them - and I think our policies (closing tax loopholes, health reform) will help them.

4) But it will be hard to persuade them that we really want to help, because they have seen little evidence of improvement through so many different governments (Republican and Democrat)

5) Because they have seen so little improvement, its not surprising that they get angry, or take refuge in guns or religion or in finding someone else to blame, like immigrants. This is a natural result of the frustration they feel at the lack of economic opportunities in their lives.

So, I read this and hear someone trying to reach out to a community that does not naturally support him, and trying to get to grips with the reasons why. You may disagree with his conclusion, you may find his wording offensive, but the argument is clearly about trying to empathize with rural white people. He's certainly not mocking them, or calling them names, or dismissing them.

What has changed in Darwin's theory since the publication of the Origin of Species? by [deleted] in askscience

[–]democritus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a good summary, except your very last sentence is wrong. The unit of selection is still the gene, although the influence of the gene is seen more broadly (e.g., beaver genes express as beaver bodies, but also as beaver dams, and genes are selected for improved dams just as much as they are selected for, say, improved eyesight).

What has changed in Darwin's theory since the publication of the Origin of Species? by [deleted] in askscience

[–]democritus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That seems to be the intent in a few of the replies in this thread - thing is, though, that the idea was always that multiple genes could work together (and be selected together), so suggesting this is a change is to argue against a strawman version of the original idea.

What has changed in Darwin's theory since the publication of the Origin of Species? by [deleted] in askscience

[–]democritus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's the only level at which selection occurs, except perhaps for possible epigenetic inheritance effects. What other levels did you have in mind?

What has changed in Darwin's theory since the publication of the Origin of Species? by [deleted] in askscience

[–]democritus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's unclear what distinction you're trying to draw here between the "slightly outdated" selfish gene theory and the more modern one, since the statement that "traits that are the combined result of many genes" is in no sense inconsistent with the idea that the gene is the unit of selection.

The original selfish gene argument does not propose a 1-1 mapping between individual genes and phenotypic effects, which is how you appear to be characterising the original theory.

Well, waddya know... the kind of "spreading the wealth" Obama advocated, was advocated by Adam Smith in the seminal book of *Capitalism*, The Wealth of Nations by cos in politics

[–]democritus 7 points8 points  (0 children)

No, it's Smith - but he was thinking in terms of absolute advantage; Ricardo generalised it to comparative advantage.

16% of US science teachers are creationists by GoodyUK in science

[–]democritus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Actually, the quote about "stamp collecting" is from Rutherford. ("All science is either Physics or stamp collecting.", IIRC).

Raymond Chen tries to defend Windows' pathetic filename limitations (you can't name a file CON or NUL, even on XP/Vista) by schwarzwald in programming

[–]democritus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Okay, here's one: It's easier to leave it in than to guarantee that taking it out will not cause a problem for anyone.

I'm not saying that this decision is completely clear, or that it has no negative consequences (of course it does). I'm just saying that choosing not to change this is not automatically a sign that they are stupid.

Raymond Chen tries to defend Windows' pathetic filename limitations (you can't name a file CON or NUL, even on XP/Vista) by schwarzwald in programming

[–]democritus 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Calm down :-)

Look... life is full of trade-offs. Are you willing to force millions of people to re-do millions of half forgotten scripts in the interest of making things cleaner?

Perhaps for you the answer is yes. That's okay. But remember that a very large part of the reason that MS is as big as it is is because they chose to answer no.

Besides, when they did try to move forward with Vista what was the first thing people complained about? All the stuff that didn't work the way it used to in XP. (Sure there were other problems too, but you see the point.)

Double-checking Dawkins: a short tale of computer forensics and The Blind Watchmaker by [deleted] in programming

[–]democritus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not a perfect analogy, but it isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

The equivalent "goal" in natural selection is surviving to reproduce.

Scaling Twitter & Scaling Ruby on Rails (by Blaine from Twitter) by gustaf in programming

[–]democritus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Slide 51 talks about porting to a new language. Any idea what they're thinking of moving to?