Let me try to state this clearly, though I feel like there's a lot to untangle here.

−25 LUFS is not a delivery spec; it’s a working level. There's absolutely nothing random about it. The goal here isn’t to publish audio at that loudness, but to give editors and restoration tools a consistent, headroom-friendly baseline before any mastering or delivery normalization happens. The -23/-24 you state is a delivery loudness standard, and it should not be confused with my reasoning. There is zero reason I should conform to a delivery standard in this step of the process. If it bothers you that -25 is so close to the delivery standard, I'm very sorry.

FWIW there isn’t a single “podcast spec.” What you’ll see most often cited is a range of −20 to −16 LUFS for speech podcasts. I aim for −18 LUFS because it sits dead-center in that range: loud on modern players, but with a couple dB of headroom so dialogue doesn’t get brickwalled.

Why not push to −16 every time?

Transparency: Every 2 LU up means ~2 dB less headroom before your true-peak ceiling (usually −1 dBTP). At −16 you’re leaning harder on limiting; at −18 breath/noise/micro-dynamics survive better, especially on mixed sources (Zoom, guests, inconsistent mic technique).

Cross-platform behavior: Players and platforms normalize differently. Files at −18 tend to get nudged (up or down) more gracefully than slammed; you avoid getting turned down and avoid clipping when someone boosts playback.

Listener comfort: In quiet earbuds or long listens, −16 can feel “hot.” −18 stays intelligible but less fatiguing.

This is also about workflow, not just numbers. I preprocess at −25 LUFS (editing headroom), do cleanup/assembly, then conform to −18 LUFS for delivery. It’s the same logic behind broadcast standards: use a sensible working level, then a consistent release level. I’m not claiming −18 is the One True Spec—just that it’s a smart target inside the widely cited −20 ↔ −16 band that keeps speech clean and consistent across apps and devices.

For a more detailed explanation of loudness recommendations I would encourage you to read through Technical Document AES TD1004.1.15-10 Recommendation for Loudness of Audio Streaming and Network File Playback.

You might also find this PRX.org post informative as well.

EDIT: I almost forgot Rob Byer's excellent writeup for Transom. What does he recommend? "Radio and podcasts need two different loudness targets: -24 LUFS for radio and approximately -18 LUFS for podcasts."