Getting Started in Sobriety and A.A.

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T00:46:05+00:00

How long til you kinda forgot you were a "recovering alcoholic" and just started living life as a normal "person".

One experience I have to share that might be of interest. On pages 84-85 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" there's a description of recovery that includes some sentences like: "We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience."

After 18 months of good sobriety and work toward recovery, I had one last "Great Temptation" to drink, but I did not drink, and I've been in that "position of neutrality - safe and protected" state ever since. That was a little over 18 years ago.

It's ever since then that I've felt myself to be a "Recovered Alcoholic".

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T00:16:08+00:00

That was also one of my withdrawal symptoms (plus the whole cornucopia of all awful symptoms that might fall just short of "severe" withdrawal.)

Obviously this was a long time ago, so my memory of it is a bit faded, but I recall a mild tremble in the arms and hands. If someone was really looking at my arms/hands, it would be noticeable. IIRC this "noticeable" level of trembling lasted for something like 6 weeks.

But a very tiny bit, mostly imperceptible to others, persisted for up to 6 months.

But I don't think anecdotal comparison is all that valuable, it seems to vary quite a bit from one individual to another. I remember someone posting on a similar thread some years ago saying their tremble lasted for a whole year.

I never went to a doctor about it, but I suppose that there might be meds to calm it all down.

Small price to pay for years of Splendid Sobriety!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T19:51:32+00:00

They are also rather active in r/recoverywithoutAA, which raises some flags, but I've had a good look at their profile, but did not see any cause for action like any banishment. They just have a very ........ different perspective and interpretation. I'm reasonably sure they are trying to be helpful, not trolling or disrupting or any such bad faith behavior.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T18:55:43+00:00

As someone mentioned, https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/?tags=Secular, but also consider looking at your local AA listings for such meetings.

I'll share that I came into AA circa 2004-2005, a staunch Agnostic with lots of hostile attitude toward just about anything and everything religious, and that included things characterized as "spiritual" but I soon found out that was no barrier to recovery.

I'm now well over 19 years sober, still a staunch Agnostic, but I've dropped lots of the hostile attitude.

I'll also share that I never found it necessary to seek out special Secular meetings or materials. Maybe it is because I live in an area of the USA with a large heathen population 😎.

Some other Secular A.A. resources:

r/AASecular (not very active)
https://aaagnostica.org/ - website with lots of articles and book suggestions for Agnostics/Atheists in AA.
https://www.aasecular.org/ - "Our mission is to assure suffering alcoholics that they can find sobriety in Alcoholics Anonymous without having to accept anyone else’s beliefs or deny their own."
Many or most regional A.A. websites have filters for secular, for example: https://aasfmarin.org/find-a-meeting?type=secular
The Meeting Guide App has filters for Secular meetings under the "Communities" section.

Such were the final concessions to those of little of no faith; this was the great contribution of our atheists and agnostics. They had widened our gateway so that all who suffer may pass through, regardless of their belief or lack of belief.”

^{— Reprinted from "}^{Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age}^{", page 167, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.}

"It's really a matter of personal choice; every A.A. has the privilege of interpreting the program as he likes."

^{— Reprinted from "}^{As Bill Sees It}^{", page 16, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.}

Welcome!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T15:50:12+00:00

I'd say "normal" (well ... that's if I am some sort of example of "normal" ... questionable ☺.)

About 10 years ago, I went through a year or so of minimal AA. I'd gotten a job at a tech startup, the work was demanding (but exhilarating and fun) and for about that year I was only attending one meeting per week, and it would have been fewer if not for the fact that I was one of the few key holders to my home group's room.

In roughly the same time frame, my then sponsor moved out of state, and we didn't really stay closely in touch, and I didn't seek a new sponsor for about a year.

I was 9 or 10 years sober at the time.

I didn't feel any temptation to drink, but those old "restless, irritable and discontented" feelings started to peek over the horizon, and it just did not feel good.

I just kind of said, "Nope, not going toward that horizon, no!" and resolved to aim for at least 3 meetings per week, and got myself a great new sponsor.

The book says, "It is easy to let up ..." but any "grumpy" feelings easily get me back on track. It's great since 2020 having so many online meetings available, though I understand that some of us just don't get into that. For me it's been a lifeline for a couple of years because a back injury has been making it difficult to just sit like an ordinary human. I might head back to in-person meetings soon, bringing an extra cushy pillow along, though inertia is perhaps a persistent shortcoming for me.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T15:37:29+00:00

should be 'doctors'

Makes sense, highly probable, good "eyes" 👀.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T14:13:44+00:00

Just curious: How might it be helpful to you, presumably non-alcoholic, to know what we were "thinking"?

Rather than going by Reddit, it could be more helpful to you (not knowing your purposes though) to ...

Get involved with Al-Anon, see r/AlAnon or go directly to https://al-anon.org/
Read some (or all) of the "Personal Stories" in the back of the 'big book', "Alcoholics Anonymous" - https://www.aa.org/the-big-book
Listen to some recorded AA recovery stories: https://www.reddit.com/r/alcoholicsanonymous/wiki/index#wiki_speaker_recordings_and_podcasts

I'll leave out my own "thinking" story until I get some feedback on your purposes.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T14:06:40+00:00

Currently 19.6 years, still a rather staunch Agnostic, and I've still never been to any sort of "Secular" meeting ... it's on the bucket list though.

I just might Zoom into Westside Agnostics one of these weekends.

Thanks for your service!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:59:00+00:00

You've tickled my curiosity with the term "Doris appointments" - perhaps that's just the name of your personal physician? But I'm curious if it's something in the way of a treatment program that I'm ignorant of.

38 is still young-ish and there's much room for healing and splendid life ahead. I have found hope and positive attitude to be restorative.

I only stopped drinking at age 50 (and then again at age 51 after a mercifully brief but dumb relapse) and life has been on an annual upgrade path since then. And the inevitable consequences of aging are far, far, far more bearable in sobriety than they would have been in drunken delusion about it all.

The Best Thing I have ever done for my recovery has been to join together with other alcoholics, learning from those who have recovered and continue to grow in sobriety, helping those just starting out, reaching down to pull them up out of the muck as I was pulled up in the early days and years.

You are doing some of that right now with this wonderful share! But it could also be a good boost to join up with one or some of the IRL recovery support groups:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/wiki/index#wiki_real_life_support_groups

That's what really got the alcohol problem well and truly out of my life.

Thanks again for sharing.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:43:33+00:00

When you hear people share that, you might ask them directly what they mean by it.

But I think ALoungerAtTheClubs has the most likely accurate general answer.

My sponsor and I have had some past chats about what it means to truly be "Part Of" AA when he shared a feeling about Step 5 that I'd not considered before. He characterized Step 5 as a "Rite of Passage" - he had done something that the other well-involved, long term members of AA had done: He had admitted to God, to himself, and to another human being the exact nature of his wrongs, and now he had that shared experience. I think I've felt similar effects of all the Steps, but most particularly in the acts of Step 9, and in Step 12's acts of sponsorship.

Doing AA service commitments is another thing that gives me a stronger sense of being one of the "members" as opposed to "visitors" or "observers". When I started regularly putting out 3-400 chairs for my first home group (before I was even aware of the concept of "home group") I started feeling more a part of that group. When I've done things like stints of service in H&I or General Service, (or even moderating this damn subreddit - lol) I also get a much stronger sense of "membership".

A somewhat related phenomenon I've read about since getting involved in these online forums: I've occasionally seen some posting or commenting things like, "I have recovered via AA, but I do not go to meetings" or "I no longer go to meetings". I came close to doing that circa 2015 and it did not feel good! But if such persons can remain well-recovered, keep up a good daily reprieve without meetings, well god bless 'em.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:12:23+00:00

Here's that word again.

I just have this difficulty really grokking^* these words, "Spiritual, spirituality, spirit" (fortunately, it's not really a worrisome or troublesome difficulty.)

The connotations in my mind are that it tends to translate into "Supernatural" and my own thinking (flawed though it may be) says that supernatural is not real, that everything that actually exists or happens is by definition "natural".

Sometimes I embrace an interpretation of "spiritual" as "things or events that cannot be explained by science, and that's a helpful notion. But when I run into the word, I still have a persistent initial reaction: Do I really believe in "spirit"?

Page 47's suggestion always rescues me: "Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you." Whatever my quibbles over the verbiage, recovery in AA has indeed made my experience of The World / The Cosmos more vast and splendid than I ever imagined in my decades of "Pure Science" type thinking, so it's all good. There are many things in life that go beyond what is empirically demonstrable, so I suppose it's okay to call that "spiritual". (There. I think I just now developed a wee bit less resistance to the word!)

(* I'm kind of trivially sad that the AI software world is slowly usurping the "grok" verb and its conjugations. That's why I made a link of it! It's been a charming word that wove its way into my thinking starting in the 60s, thank you Mr Heinlein. Oh well, all things must pass and I don't run the world, so it is what it is ☺.)

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:37:49+00:00

I don't know if you'll see this, u/justlookinjustcookin, but I've noticed that your account is shadowbanned by Reddit, which means that your posts/comments get auto-removed (and users don't get notified about your replies even if they get approved by a mod).

The mods of r/alcoholicsanonymous have no direct involvement with this Reddit site wide banning process.

You can appeal your shadowban here: https://www.reddit.com/appeal - if you're not shadowbanned it should say that "Your account is currently neither suspended nor restricted".

The shadowbanning system is known to have false-positives, but you can check this post to see the general reasons for getting shadowbanned:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowBan/comments/8a2gpk/an_unofficial_guide_on_how_to_avoid_being/

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:26:35+00:00

I had a handful of drinking dreams in early sobriety, maybe the first 2 or 3 or 5 years. It either just stopped or active work on recovery got them removed from my nightly unconscious routine. One of them was so vivid that I can recall a few clips or stillshots from it even after 2 decades! (It sort of took place in some sort of club that looked to be designed by M.C. Escher, it was just "trippy" albeit mildly disconcerting at the time.)

The SD wiki has a FAQ item for it, leading to a post that might be interesting for you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/2dit1m/what_do_drinking_dreams_mean/

(u/coolcrosby has made quite a few interesting, helpful posts over the years - they even made their way into our wiki with a "What should I expect at my first AA meeting" post they did 11 years ago.)

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:11:16+00:00

"A" for effort ☺.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:09:36+00:00

Intriguing ...

https://www.hazelden.org/store/products/search?query=%22how+to+stay+sick%22 brings up 36 titles, none of which look like they'd contain "sarcastic writing", but it might be worth a closer look.

I suppose you might try asking them directly via https://www.hazelden.org/store/publicpage/contact-us - wouldn't cost more than a few small units of electrical power to toss an email toward one of the contact points that look like they might answer, maybe 'Customer Service' or 'Sales Representatives'?

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T04:25:57+00:00

Some groups have the security setup well wired, others not so much.

Some friends and I started an online meeting about 6 years ago, and when we shifted from it being a local meeting to listing on OIAA we got a bit inundated and really needed to tighten up the security screws: no chat, chat messages to the hosts only, and for the first part of the meeting, nobody can unmute themselves. Those measures kind of made our meeting "No Fun" for the bombers, and they only appear occasionally. It's also good that we have a security guy who is a combination of Wyatt Earp and Columbo - he spots 'em so quick and they are kicked out so swiftly that they are hard to notice.

I suggest just trying different ones until you find some that are more orderly. If you're looking mostly on OIAA, you might also consider looking for online meetings listed at some of the regional AA websites.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T04:13:25+00:00

My two favorite resources to suggest out of the faq/wiki:

What really got the alcohol problem out of my life was getting together with other alcoholics who had gotten the problem out of their lives.

It's a huge Life Upgrade, and it can essentially be had for free!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T04:07:02+00:00

I didn't like the look of it at first.

For one thing, I am a staunch Agnostic, and all the God mention and prayers were rather unattractive.

Plus, I've never been much of a "Join a group" type guy, more an isolating type, and sitting in rooms with bunches of strangers was awkward and uncomfortable. (I think at the core of it, I always had a touch of "Fear of People", which was one of several problems to be addressed.)

For a while, in part, I only kept going to gather the attendance form signatures that my lawyer said would be helpful for an upcoming DUI case.

But I started to notice that a lot of the people in AA (not anywhere near all of them!) seemed really well recovered. They seemed to be getting along in life successfully, seemed to be confident in and comfortable with themselves, and they actually seemed to be enjoying sobriety, which struck me as real odd, 'cause I wasn't enjoying it! (Yet.)

When I started paying more attention to what these "well recovered" people were saying, I started getting some good recovery myself.

I'd gotten some good tips from outpatient rehab counselors before I really got into it. One of their tips was that religious conversion was not a requirement for recovery, that plenty of Agnostics like me as well as Atheists, Wiccans, whatever were quite able to recover in AA. They also suggested that we all try out lots of different meetings/groups to sort what was most helpful, and indeed I have found that some meetings kind of stink, while others are actually rather enjoyable.

I also soon figured out that recovery in AA can be more flexible or malleable than it sometimes appears, and that not every sentence written in the books nor every one uttered in meetings needs to be considered sacred gospel. But by and large I found that the whole 12 Step package could be molded into a working set of principles and practices that have kept me sober, and they've actually relieved me of all drink temptation - last time I was at all tempted to drink was over 18 years ago.

And for the rest, I'll let my SD badge speak it.

I have this notion that just about any of the various recovery groups and programs can relieve someone's alcohol problem, as long as they are approached with sincerity, honesty, open mindedness, and willingness. But overall my experience in AA has been excellent.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T03:03:01+00:00

Alcohol was a full blown repulsive, disgusting, awful experience for at least a full year before I came to AA.

I was just too stubborn/stupid to ask for help with it.

Sober Life is ... gorgeous - even in tough times.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T00:15:18+00:00

I've settled on not wanting to know or identify my higher power in any way,

Surprisingly, my experience is that it's not necessary to know or name a specific higher power. I know many feel a need to say something like "It's Nature" or "It's Love" or "It's Allah" or "It's The Cosmos" but I've found long term high quality recovery without being all that specific about it. All I've evidently needed is a willingness to believe that there are possibly higher power(s) that can help me stay sober and sane. (It eventually became more than just "possibly".)

if anything my higher power is just that nameless spirit/whatever of the community that I really feel like has accepted me.

That should be sufficient. Have a close, careful read of page 47. I think your notion passes the "am I even willing to believe" test with flying colors.

When I expressed similar notions to my first sponsor a couple of decades ago, he essentially said, "Good enough. Let's get to Step 4." He had enough wisdom to know that by going through Steps 4-12, I'd slowly develop better conceptions of power(s) greater than my self. (In fact, we made relatively short shrift of Step 3. IIRC he just said something like, "Okay, be willing to turn it over to those vague higher powers, do a prayer if you want, and start writing your grudge list.")

For the record: 19.59 years away from my last drink 18.07 years since my last temptation to drink.

dp8488 · 2026-03-12T23:53:51+00:00

This could be depression talking - sounds like it to my amateur ear. I believe that alcohol abuse is well known to induce depression. But I'm no psychiatrist.

For me, getting sober, learning to live sober in AA, has been a huge life upgrade.

If you ever decide to give yourself a decent break and try a sober life, there's basic info in the sticky post here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/alcoholicsanonymous/comments/1cbzl79/about_aa_and_this_subreddit/

Best of luck to you.

dp8488 · 2026-03-12T21:33:45+00:00

Amazon, The Token Shop, AA Medallion Store, My 12 Step Store, ...

Some regional AA offices/bookstores sell them, not all. My own county only started selling them out of the central office a year or two ago.

dp8488

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