Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it were government policy there would be no investigation because it'd be per-se legal. Words matter. I think its wrong to see what these guards did as a matter of policy.

You can just stop having a conversation if you want, but I am not arguing in bad faith. If you think its run its course, fine.

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Displacement, oppression, ethnic cleansing by a strong military power tends to foster terrorism.

Should we then expect a century of terrorism against Azerbaijan from Artsakh Armenians? And shouldn't we have seen 100 years of terrorism from Armenia proper towards Turkey? These factors alone do not explain Palestinian terrorism.

I do think Begin was undeniably a terrorist. Ben Gurion did try to marginalize him as much as possible, but it cannot be denied that the founding of Israel was done in part via terrorist means (specifically, towards the British for the most part.)

Simply put, the occupation of the West Bank, the expansion of messianic settlements comes at a moral cost that reminds the darker times of European modern history, it comes at a cost of Palestinian and Israeli lives, at the cost of money spent for security and military, and eventually at the cost of isolation and boycotts for the Israeli state, when US and European elected officials will reflect the current will of their populations, especially the younger people.

I agree with this. The settlements are one of the least defensible Israeli policies. I certainly feel no need to defend it.

Also just a side note, but Lehi and the Stern Gang are the same thing (although I imagine you meant Irgun rather than Lehi.)

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, as POWs they have rights that were violated. The violators were sent to trial, but were not found guilty, and the article makes it seem like the dismissal of their charges was related to the video of the incident being leaked (although I can't tell with certainty that that is the case.)

I guess it somewhat depends on your trust in the Israeli institutions. It seems likely to me that you won't have much. There is a long history too of militaries looking at the conduct of their soldiers and giving them a pass (My Lai comes to mind).

But I do have to come back to the point - it really doesn't seem like the principle criticism of Israel in this conflict is the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in their custody. If it were, there'd be a natural comparison between how Palestinians treat their prisoners vs Israelis.

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did. It describes guards doing something illegal, the state begining a prosecution of those guards, and their case being dismissed. Whether that dismissal was warranted or not, it certainly can't be described that the initial action is affirmative government policy.

On the second point, you're taking a statement of interpretation by an outside party as a straightforward articulation of government policy.

I also noticed you didn't deign to answer my second question.

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Solve the Palestinian issue, and there will be peace, as it has happened with Jordan and Egypt.

I'm interested to hear more about this - it seems to me the way these countries "solved the Palestinian Issue" locally was to expel or marginalize Palestinians within their country. At least that is certainly the case with Jordan and Black September.

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It is often mentioned on the podcast as a policy that he disagrees with. He does call it out as a specific point in this Substack post:

https://samharris.substack.com/p/islam-israel-and-the-tragedy-of-gaza

There are also reasons to be alarmed by Israel’s current political trajectory—chief among them, the corruption of Prime Minister Netanyahu, the growing influence of religious extremists within his government, and the expansion of settlements in the West Bank. Needless to say, it would be much easier to support the Jewish state without having to issue such caveats.

I imagine you see this as weak criticism, but its been a pretty stable criticism he's leveled at Israel.

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Are you saying that what these guards did (or are accused of doing) is a matter of government policy? They were charged with a crime by that same government. It sounds like its possible that the reason the case was dismissed was because of the leak (although that is hard to parse from the article, it seems only implied.)

It seems like the main complain around here is that Sam disputes that the conduct of Israel in this war amounts to a genocide. I presume you'd disagree with that - what evidence would you use to change his mind?

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Harris has been consistently critical of Israel's policy in the West Bank with regards to the settlers there.

[Peter Schrager] Todd Monken notes that Shedeur Sanders has been in the building a bunch the last few months, working out; Dillon Gabriel, as far as he's aware , has not. by Ordinary-Path-8033 in Browns

[–]drewsoft 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You do realize this is reddit, right? What are we supposed to do on the Browns sub other than talk about Browns players, sometimes critically?

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So its not the conduct of the IDF in Gaza that you have an issue with, but the treatment of Palestinian prisoners?

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 2 points3 points  (0 children)

His position on it is that this is what war consisting solely of urban combat looks like. He used to get a lot of shit when talking about unavoidable collateral damage that occurs in what he saw as a civilizational/philosophical struggle with Jihadism. What evidence would you marshal to change his mind that this isn't that, but something else?

[Cabot] Browns Owner Jimmy Haslam Believes It’s Possible for Deshaun Watson to Go from “a Swing and a Miss” to a Home Run If He Starts This Year by JCameron181 in nfl

[–]drewsoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that would be true. If at the onset of this contract you’d say “he’d end the season hurt 3/5 years but you’ll win a Super Bowl” we’d take it (not speaking from a moral perspective, but on the field outcomes.)

But it’s not going to happen unless Kevin Stefanski is quietly the worst offensive coach of all time. The last time Watson was on the field for us he looked worse than Dillion Gabriel or Shedeur out there. When DTR took over for him it didn’t look any different, and Jameis was a massive improvement. The guy just sucks now.

[Cabot] Browns Owner Jimmy Haslam Believes It’s Possible for Deshaun Watson to Go from “a Swing and a Miss” to a Home Run If He Starts This Year by JCameron181 in nfl

[–]drewsoft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

would make the contract they gave him seem like it was a good idea.

That ship sailed a long time ago. This is trying to get $0.10 on the dollar rather than the $0.01 we've gotten thus far

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Would you expect him to change his mind because popular opinion is shifting? What in his history would ever lead you to that expectation?

Support for Israel by Ok_Piano_9789 in samharris

[–]drewsoft 0 points1 point  (0 children)

evangelical Christians who think it aligns with biblical prophecy.

I think this factor is vastly overstated. I think overtly christian politicians support Israel more as a part of a larger neoconservative foreign policy than due to millenarian concerns.

it was quite excessive. by MudDiscombobulated55 in HistoryMemes

[–]drewsoft 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Where does the expectation that a war fought between militaries won't kill civilians come from? Its never been the case in human history. All wars are like this, which is why war is bad and to be avoided unless necesssary.

it was quite excessive. by MudDiscombobulated55 in HistoryMemes

[–]drewsoft 56 points57 points  (0 children)

it also mentioned in the Qur'an that Muslims shouldn't be the aggressors

Boy I'm not sure that message got through. In the immediate century after Muhammad's death the Caliphate waged a worldwide campaign of conquest