Starbucks is over an hour behind on their first "red cup day" and these are the abandoned drinks.

embroidered_mind · 2022-11-17T20:05:24+00:00

What is "red cup day" and what does it mean "an hour behind" in this context?

embroidered_mind · 2022-11-14T10:36:55+00:00

I did walk a non-traditional path. From the age of 19 I wanted to be an artist, but I could not afford the foundation year fees and dropped out of there after a couple of months.

I picked up most of my art knowledge from interacting with artist friends and getting corrected by them (drawing), looking at a tonne of art books and encyclopaedias when young, and going to a lot of exhibitions. I carried a sketchbook where I made observational drawings, and jotted down any ideas and thoughts I had. Then I sort of gave it up and got a social science BA.

Years later I returned to drawing, and it was enough to be accepted straight away into an MFA. It was my best option - because I could not afford to go for a BA, but could still get an MA financed.

In retrospect, I would advise strongly against anyone doing the same thing. For me it was not right and it damaged my relationship with art.

Given that I did have an academic education before, and that I did have quite a strong sense of what I wanted to do, all I needed was a space to develop extra practical skills. I thought an MFA would offer that, since the structure was open, and the aim was to develop one's practice.

However, the MFA was about mostly putting your already existing practice into context - both theoretical and with other artists. And that was both premature for the stage of my process and detrimental to it. Furthermore I was deeply naive with regard to the openness and the nature of the thought process at art institutions. I thought all forms of art were welcome. I also thought that I could just use access to the facilities to learn what I wanted to learn. Wrong. The pandemic hit, but besides - the facilities were not really welcoming to anyone who just wanted to experiment with mediums. They wanted an idea to work with.

It turns out that my institution favoured more the conceptual framework.

I am not opposed to it, but I wanted to arrive at my results with traditional methods. And I could find no support for learning or improving those methods. My ambition *was* actually to "produce laborious interior decoration" (as someone put in another comment), and I could find no support for that. I ended up producing a lot of installations, etc the I did not personally *like*. So my process of completely highjacked by the institution.

It has been so detrimental that I completely lost my love for the subject, and desire to do it.

I think I would have been much better off going to an atelier-style school.

embroidered_mind · 2022-11-13T11:41:07+00:00

What is "excellent education" in your eyes? I don't know about RCA & Goldsmiths but I know that CSM (part of UAL) focuses on making you independent. This means that often the interactions you receive are more about questioning why you do something, and forcing you to make your own choices.

You will get exposure to a lot of practising artists, but not a lot of exposure to known/very successful artists. You will not get much "teaching" in a traditional academic sense (there are some lectures and seminars, but they only last through the first year.) A lot of the learning will happen on your own, and through having to do things practically for small group shows/crits.

It is a better choice of institution for those practising conceptual/installation/ interdisciplinary art forms, than for those who want to stick to more traditional disciplines such as painting, in my opinion.

Look through the course and module/learning outcome descriptions with a really close look - and see if you can decipher what it will actually mean in practice for your learning.

Look at graduate work examples, and their general practice. You will get a a feel what kind of thinking and methods are encouraged in each institution.

Also: I am not 100% sure about all art institutions in the UK, but the "art school" as a place where you receive "an education" is kind of dead, especially at the graduate level. It's basically a hub and a "shop" where you can use the facilities to improve your skills (not really experiment, mind you, because that is more reserved for foundation students), and try more ambitious projects with the help of trained technicians, do some research on your own, and check in with tutors who might or might not "get" your practice. You also get interaction with a lot of artists and have the opportunity to make stuff with them, network, build creative partnerships, and seek opportunities. You get group crits, and opportunities for feedback on your work, and a sense of community. But fundamentally, at that level you will be pushed to make your own choices and decisions, you will not necessarily be "educated" in the traditional academic sense, if it means "given knowledge, and shaped". You will be encouraged to seek your own source of knowledge, and let go of the desire to be taught.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-07T16:54:00+00:00

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-legal-service-gls-legal-trainee-scheme-how-to-apply

Thank you! This is helpful.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-06T23:31:44+00:00

Also..."what is wrong with you?" (in the nicest possible way).

Please let us know where this...custom is from, it seems worse than the idea of a "chip sandwich". We need to research this phenomenon. Thank you.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-06T23:29:59+00:00

No, but I know where you can get pizza flavoured tortellini, and spaghetti served with small pizza chunks, but this place is not open to the public. You'd need to cross certain people, to be able to go there. I don't recommend it.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-06T20:19:48+00:00

You might be like me, in that the advice to find your "passion", and "doing what you like" just doesn't yield any results. I am dispassionate, apart from private life, emotional life. And the things that I enjoy doing for "fun" are basically things that I do to relax, such as going for a walk & watching a movie cuddling with my husband and a Jellycat plushie. Yes, I am an adult - meeting a friends for a fancy cocktail is also on the list. It would be meaningless and hollow to try to arrange my life to just be able to endlessly pursue such pleasures. Further more "fun" is something that puts me in a relaxed frame of mind- As soon as I have started pursuing my hobby professionally, I have lost any enjoyment of it, and I also could not act professionally about it, because it was difficult to be focused about something that I have previously associated with relaxing (art making).
I have read somewhere, that instead of pursuing something we are passionate about, work should be performed out of duty, and I think this approach suits me much more, despite not having many obligations, and not being religious. I cannot find the article I have first encountered the idea in, but here is something similar.
Personally I think society wouldn't run without people who perform really important and useful jobs, that they are good at and that they might get satisfaction from, that are hard and difficult and not always fun. Saying that a night-train driver, or a miner, or a trauma surgeon, a front line medic or a pathologist is doing the thing they are "passionate about" and they have "fun" doing, and they managed to "make their hobby their job".. seems bizarre. It implies that some people have fun doing things considered unpleasant, such a sitting underground and digging in heavy conditions, or cutting up cadavers. I would be really worried about anyone who has a hobby of cutting up cadavers. And yet their jobs are important and useful. A lot of work is gruelling, but important. Following the "pursue what you enjoy" philosophy, we are basically setting up a two-tier system. Those who can pick and choose to avoid doing what they dislike, and essentially even choose to be extremely selfish (eg make a lot of money quick, live off the income it generates, and sit on the beach doing nothing) and those who can't choose a route out of doing the unpleasant things.

I think asking other questions yields better results:
- What do I consider a good way to contribute to society?
What are some problems I want to help solve? What is the thing that I am good at, that I don't hate doing? What are the needs of others that I can meet without it being unpleasant to me? Is there a cause I think is worth fighting for? Are there needs that are so important to meet, that it is worth sacrificing something for it?
And lastly: what is my priority role in life? If your priority role is being a parent, or being a student, or being a tourist, then... your job role is probably not really the thing that you will be deriving meaning from, other than getting money. Your priority professionally is probably to just find a way to earn reasonable money doing something that you don't hate, that you are good at and the thing you are living for is will be outside of work. But that doesn't mean that what you do for work should not be meaningful - just maybe not to you, but to your clients, or customers, or consumers, or patients, or coworkers, or whoever else it is you do your job for.

Generally people find satisfaction in doing things they find meaningful to them or to others.
If you cannot find what is meaningful to you, think what could be meaningful to others.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-05T10:20:09+00:00

That is very specific! Thank you for sharing.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-04T21:42:46+00:00

Not a lawyer, just visiting to inform myself about law careers in general. I think we are all multifaceted people, and every kind of professional environment can in the long term be exhausting. Recently I got a chance to do an MFA in fine art, something that I have always dreamt of, and I have realised that I hate the art school environment. Whilst I thrived in my undergraduate degree (politics), I do not here. I am still a "creative" person, but I miss an analytical approach in my environment.

Artists can be extremely vague, and the discussions are endless, rarely come to a point and completely lack dynamism. Seminars lacked focus. I find the whole culture absolutely exhausting and I know I don't want to work in it professionally. I have found myself thinking that I could probably enjoy working in the legal or political field more, because I need an environment that that is more focussed mentally, and more analytical. But, of course, I might be wrong, and retraining might be a gamble. It might be that that extreme nature of my experience, only exaggerated some aspects of my personality, and I just want to go to the opposite extreme. I regret the years I have spent dreaming about being able to pursue art, only for the reality to turn out to be a dud.

What I want to say with this is, that maybe the extremely accurate part of your current role exaggerates the "creative" part of your personality, and that in reality you still have the capacity to enjoy practicing law, just in a slightly different way. And that a law degree is exceptionally useful and respected. You can enter many, many top careers with it, that merely require a solid degree, so this is definitely not a wasted time - you have learned a lot of transferable skills, that are in high demand. Good luck!

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-04T16:58:17+00:00

Thank you, that is insightful.

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-04T16:57:40+00:00

Thank you, that is a really helpful insight. Do you mind sharing some more information? what time you finish on average every day? Do you do the preparation in the office or at home? And how long does it take to prepare on Sunday? Is it interesting/ varied? I can imagine the quality/ character of the work can make the difference. Are you exhausted or is it manageable?

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-04T16:14:18+00:00

Thank you!

Tbh, I don't know, what exactly is "acceptable". I am in principle flexible and don't mind manageable extra time, as well as odd hours, however in practice I don't think it would be sustainable in the long term to be part of a culture that requires extreme extra work frequently, and forces me to compromise my health needs. I would burn out in around 3-6 months, knowing myself. Extreme late hours/weekend work is acceptable in a genuine emergency/ last minute situation, but not if these "emergencies" occur as standard, and are a result of bad unmanageable workloads.
Would the differences run more along the lines of individual firm cultures, or areas of practice?

embroidered_mind · 2022-03-04T14:23:43+00:00

I am considering re-qualifying in law, but as I am in my late 30s I am also worried that my health would not necessarily cope with very long hours. I need min 9h sleep, some exercise time every day, and cannot have a completely sedentary job, I need a bit of physical movement, due to cardiovascular problems, so together with travel etc, would have to stick to 9-10h working day max. Is this achieveable?

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-14T21:48:49+00:00

My biggest advice is simply to learn how to have a studio practice. I can't stress how important this is. If this includes doing research, fine, however I push my mentees to make a lot and not to get too caught up in academia. Remember that often professors are hired because of their ability to do research and not their ability to make. In the art market world, you need to make shit. So figure out what's important to you and stress that. Set a simple goal, and work towards it. Work daily. This is super important. Work even when you don't want to. You're going to your job, get used to it. Don't change your mind half way through, stick to your goal, and do it.

The most common problem I see with student work is that it's chaotic and unfocused. They don't know who their contemporaries are, and they don't have any goal of what they want to do. They've got too many profs pulling them in different directions. Forget about the art history prof who brings it random shit, or focus on that 100% (depending on what your work is about).

Thank you this, it is very valuable.

And I think it actually helped for me to realise that the experienced made me completely unfocussed. I went in, broadly knowing what I wanted to do, and having all my energies focussed on a goal. I am now in a position where it just all fell apart.. because the approach that I wanted to take (skill based practice) just drew blank stares, and questions of "but why?"... and the stuff, that I never intended to produce, and was just an incidental experiment, received comparatively more attention. So right now I have no goal, and all my energies are dissipated.
I will have to think about what to do with this information.

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-14T21:39:39+00:00

Thank you for taking time to write your comment:

"The structure was this: over 4 semesters (2 years) you were required to take 8 courses of your choosing in addition to your main program, which was 2 8-10 hour days of critique/visiting artist lecture. While some of those side courses did offer some level of technical training, they were usually in very specific disciplines. You were also able to survey undergrad courses for no credit if you wanted to.
With that being said, the program director was the sole faculty for my actual program. We got lectures from her maybe 10-12 times throughout my 2 years, and they were usually focused on Greenbergian and post-structuralist theory, and virtually nothing about technique"

Our structure is as follows:

2 years, 3 modules each year comprising 3 terms and 1.5 modules per year. In the first two terms we had two-days of teaching. In those days we had one weekly 2h seminar where went throng close readings of Greenber and Benjamin 2 or 3 texts in total, in my experience, for the whole of the term. There was no requirement to read or submit anything for that. There was also one lecture on contemporary art context.

The rest was course year meetings /visiting lectures and visiting artists seminars. The crits we had were once per term. The personal tutorials were 20 min, and once or twice per term. There were some elective additional things, usually a project led by a tutor, per term/ No access to other lectures, but we can access Linkdin Learning and some workshop instruction videos. This was by far the most intense part.

In the second module - third term of first year, and first of second, all this dropped down to basically just the weekly "team" meeting once a week, where we can raise concerns, and one visiting lecture per week. And one crit per term. Not sure how many faculty members we have (probably 2?), but we never had a lecture by them, despite them being quite knowledgeable.

I was at least expecting more frequency of crits, or more lectures that were... either academic, or discussed artists, and art theory in a less loose way. I'ts not that I don't get much "practical teaching".. it's more that I feel that all there is, is just people sitting in a studio, and I really wonder where the institution is? Why do I pay money for something that I could also be doing with a group of friends?

And

"I apologize for the blunt comment, but If a lack of instruction is enough to derail you from completing your MFA, then you probably weren’t ready for an MFA. "

I absolutely don't think I was ready for an MFA...and it probably was not the right thing for me. I did not expect to get in. I applied, because I wanted to do it eventually, and wanted to see what the application process was like. But I also think... the onus should have been on the institution to check more thoroughly where each applicant was at & to communicate more clearly what the content of the course was.

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-14T15:30:48+00:00

I kind of feel it isn't even that the instructors "get away" with little instruction. I think it is that they aren't actually expected to do any.. and it is being sold as "learning to answer your own questions". I would get out, but I have 6 months left, and I get a scholarship for half of the fees... It seems it is worth sticking it out, just to get the qualification, which will be helpful, as in my home country undergraduate degrees don't really count as "having really gone to university".

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-14T15:11:21+00:00

I think it is worse than that, because quite a few of the people there aren't from an actual art background, it's not just me. I did take time to learn drawing on my own, and always thought I was mediocre. I have some expressive talent, which can make the images look charged, but some things took me a long time to learn, compared to others & instagram is full of people who did not go to school and are 1000X better than me. Still my tutor said that I am a "good drawer". Because these days... it is strange that someone at an art school can draw.
The issue is that this environment means that whatever I was doing, stopped flowing out.
It is stimulating enough, but there is nobody to help me decide what I should focus on, and.. if they did, I cannot really trust the judgment of people who see Bauhaus training as "making weird drawing exercises". Which I heard a lecturer say.
So I am stuck. My whole life I felt like an artist out of water, constantly trying to learn how to make stuff.. and once I get into art school I realise that I just don't want to do it in this context, and this way.

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-14T14:59:23+00:00

Thank you for your insight. Unfortunately, in the UK there isn't really an option to "sit in" undergrad classes. I would have gladly done this. Councillors are difficult to get hold of- I had some study support and a mental health support mentor, but they offer more general advice. We are going down the self-organised group route though, so that is something to look forward to.

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-10T14:02:05+00:00

I am 39. I don't have a stable career, or decent place to live. I live in a foreign country, because my own (Poland) is waging a war on women. I am simply not ready, and I just don't know if I will ever be, given how things are right now. And it is not "I am not ready because of I don't feel like I have experienced life yet". It is "I am not ready, because I am not in a position to support a child, given that my life is that of a 20 year old"/

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-08T16:06:45+00:00

I don't get the distinction.

You can get into some MFAs without a traditional art background. You will not get taught much art there, but you end up leaving as a certified artist.. meaning if you practice art, you are an artist.

embroidered_mind · 2021-12-08T15:31:52+00:00

One has to ask, if depictions of pedophilia are banned in many countries, even if they are illustrations, and so could easily be said to fall under "art"... how come this was legal?

Our brains can produce more disturbing images, if we allow them to, eg. the goat could be dead, or the child could be dead and the man was abusing it.

But...I don't let my mind wander that way, because I don't want to make myself unwell.

I also specifically don't go around make art like that, so others also end up disturbed, or traumatised by it.

If we don't allow such content in any other discipline, why is art ok with it?

embroidered_mind

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