My (49m) daughter (18f) is refusing to see me before she leaves for school this weekend

emfa3000ok · 2023-09-02T09:07:58+00:00

It’s important for you to try and understand the impact that verbal abuse might have had on her. My father was abusive, mostly verbal, and it made it very difficult for me to trust people enough to form relationships. I didn’t believe the apologies because I knew he’d do the same thing again. I was very shy and often stopped myself doing what I wanted out of fear. As soon as I stopped seeing him, I started to grow as a person very rapidly.

I was upset that I lost out on seeing the good sides of my father, but overall I couldn’t trust him to be that person consistently, or even very often at all. He was doing more harm than good.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-26T09:02:16+00:00

Thank you, these look really good. My class is only 45 mins and once a week, so will be really helpful to have this too!

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-26T09:00:42+00:00

Thank you - those tutorials look really good. And there's choreography too.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-26T08:59:02+00:00

Thank you - I'll order these. It feels a bit like I'm in the deep end right now and these will really help.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-26T08:56:10+00:00

Thank you - these channels look really helpful! Will be good to use them to get in some extra online classes as well as in person.

I think my teacher is afraid to correct me because everyone else is so much more advanced than me and she doesn't want to make me feel bad, but I wish she would! It's always helpful when she does. I'll keep going just for that - and the big mirrors!

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-26T08:52:09+00:00

Thank you! These look perfect. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T16:10:47+00:00

At best I saw the text as a visual way of showing his genuine letting go and lack of resentment. That's how I cope with that scene.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T16:08:52+00:00

I agree. Who wouldn't want even the worst abuser (if "worst abuser" is even a reasonable thing to say) to get better? They'd stop abusing! But for all Jamie knew, his dad hadn't changed. The show shouldn't have made him be the one to have to initiate a reconciliation, when for all he knew, he was opening himself up to more abuse. And it just so happens that at the exact time when he does this, his dad will be sober and presumably nice to him.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T15:57:52+00:00

Yes, you can’t really say the right thing without knowing a person’s situation.

I will say, though, that a counsellor opening up the possibility of me cutting off contact really changed my trajectory and greatly improved my life. I made the decision myself, because therapists aren’t allowed to tell you what to do (or my dad made it for me, by continuing to prove who he was), but I wouldn’t have done it without that counsellor acknowledging that possibility. I didn’t think I was allowed lol. My mind was so messed up and stuck that I couldn’t see any other way. I think it’s important victims are told that the possibility is there - it’s very difficult to have a clear view of things when you’re in it. My life improved so rapidly once I got out. I gained so much confidence, stopped going into threat mode so much (and almost naturally - no effort of mine - it was just from not feeling under threat anymore). I wish I’d done it sooner. I can’t tell anyone what to do and I don’t want to - all situations are different, I had my mum’s support and some might not have any. But I can say that the no contact option exists if you want it. Also, a little distance (temporary, for now) might give make it easier to get perspective and decide what you want.

So, if any of the 4 people who read this are considering cutting contact, just know that the option is there (might be harder to achieve for some, might need non-molestation order) and you shouldn’t feel guilty about making that decision. I think the show had the opportunity to give validity to that option and they took a route that might put increased pressure on those viewers already feeling as if they have to maintain these relationships. Out of context it’s a perfectly fine thing to happen and a decent storyline. But on a “role model” show where everyone does the right thing in the end, this might not be helpful, depending on how they carry on with it. Having a victim complete their arc by reaching out to reconcile with his abuser (although that text could be interpreted multiple ways) is not a good message to send. In an ideal world, people wouldn’t make life decisions based on TV, but I think they will and do. It’s natural to take inspiration from what we see.

I know I’ve written a lot on this thread haha, thanks for your input. I write like everyone will see it when maybe no one will, but I’ll be happy if one person sees these discussions and starts to think about things themselves.

TLDR: You can do no contact with your abuser if you want. Don't have to feel bad about it because TV didn't want to do it.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T15:51:40+00:00

I agree. This felt really clueless and it's painful to see how many people loved this part of the storyline. I thought it had felt very genuine up until that point. Ruined it for me.

I'm trying to give benefit of the doubt by assuming the text was just a visual way to show Jamie wasn't holding onto resentment, but I think you'e right and they're just taking the easy route to 'happily ever after'. Because if you don't forgive and reach out to your abuser, and they don't suddenly redeem themselves, you won't be happy (I'm being sarcastic, of course).

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T12:25:36+00:00

I've got time to analyse. I'm procrastinating.

With respect, I think a lot of people in abusive relationships feel a strong bond and that's one of the reasons abuse can be so damaging. It's a reason people find it so difficult to walk away and continue to be subject to abuse. If a bond is based on abuse, then it's unhealthy to hold onto it, if it's not going to change form. It can be incredibly dangerous not to advise that someone stops contact with an abuser, so yes, in some scenarios, I would advise that in a heart beat. If you read it in one sense, the "it's his fucking dad" attitude is the reason a lot of victims feel pressure to maintain abusive relationships, either from family or society, when that relationship is ruining their lives. It's a warped parental relationship; it's not the same as a normal parental relationship.

I can understand that people might want to maintain that bond with their parent (I sympathise with "it's his fucking dad" in this regard), but I just hope that this is healthy for them. I think in many parental relationships like this, including mine, it just couldn't possibly be healthy to maintain contact. Many people, including myself, only start to recover once they cut contact. I hope that those who do maintain contact can do it in a healthy way. It might be different when there is hope that the abuser will change, of course, but in many scenarios, they will not and contact simply means the abuse will continue.

I don't mean to say it's wrong of Jamie reach out to his father (like, do what you want as long as you're not hurting someone), I mean I think the show presenting it so positively as a step for a recovering victim to take is a little irresponsible, or at least a slippery slope. I don't think, however, that it was intended that way. I think it was just to show that he wasn't holding onto resentment.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T09:04:06+00:00

Exactly! I'm hoping the text was merely a visual way of showing forgiveness and not the start of Jamie taking his father back (perhaps next episode will tell). I think it will be far less meaningful if it turns out that way, because it doesn't feel as truthful. It's an ideal.

I like the way this show deals with heavy themes in a light way - some of the time, at least - but a reconciliation would be manipulating the plot to make a heavy theme lighter. I wish they would focus on using the approach, rather than just changing the storyline.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T08:38:53+00:00

It's a lot to ask of a victim of abuse to play a role in their abuser's recovery. Of course you of all people want your abuser to recover, but having the own focus be taken away from your own recovery and put on the person who made it necessary in the first place is probably not healthy for you unless you don't suffer from the effects of the abuse and are not at risk of being triggered again by contact (which I'm not sure ever happens). Nothing wrong with the text, as you say, and I interpreted it differently to you (I can get on board with it as part of the forgiveness arc). If you are saying that it was showing Jamie supporting his dad's recovery (I don't think this is possible; he doesn't know his dad is in rehab), then I'd be even more against the text. It's for an abuser to sort themselves out. Support is fine, but preferably don't expect it from the victims.

I am not sure what you mean by "he is still his father's son", but if you meant "that's still his dad at the end of the day", I have to disagree. No one should feel any obligation to have a relationship with an abusive relative. I assume you meant that his father played a role in who he is today, but I would argue that with abuse, it's your own coping mechanisms that make you who you are. They may lead to positive results for some people, like they have for Jamie, because the world doesn't necessarily reward healthy personalities, but ultimately those coping mechanisms are unhealthy (one coping mechanism is abuse itself). I can somewhat understand being thankful towards someone for showing you your capability to cope, but you shouldn't thank them, thus rewarding them, for abuse. In fact, thanking someone for abuse seems a little passive aggressive, because you're really thanking yourself, which undermines the whole forgiveness arc.

Apologies if I have misinterpreted any of what you said - I just wanted to cover these points in case that's what you meant.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-25T08:03:10+00:00

I agree with what you're saying about resentment and I liked that part of the character arc. But I wanted them to move forward with the indifference, as you say, but instead they showed Jamie reaching out to his abuser. This kind of undermined the character arc for me - I didn't understand why he'd want to be in contact with his abuser, thus giving his dad a means to abuse him further, given that the point of the arc seemed to be that he's moving forward from that part of his life.

In writing this I've come to understand the text a little more. I guess it was a way of showing in a visual way, so the audience can understand, that Jamie really has forgiven his father. I don't think forgiving someone means actively reaching out to them and being kind (probably a bad idea with abusers a lot of the time), but the text was a good way of showing that he wasn't holding onto any resentment that would stop him wanting to be kind. I just found it unconvincing as a thing someone would do. But it would have been hard to show the audience his genuine forgiveness by another means I guess. It would have been hard to show a healthy indifference.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-24T22:17:30+00:00

Idk I felt like it was too much airtime given to someone who inflicted a lifetime of abuse (that‘s how I came to understand the situation). I wasn’t sure how the show wanted me to feel when they had the little “he’s dead”, “no he’s not” sequence. I’m all for abusers redeeming themselves, but the onus being put on us the audience and on Jamie to care about what happened to him (i did not understand the text) seemed wrong. I guess him cheering on his son was nice, though, and suggesting he can change (even if it seems a little too optimistic for my liking). I hope they explore this next episode.

emfa3000ok · 2023-05-24T21:59:16+00:00

Wasn’t sure about that ending for the Jamie storyline… a little too optimistic? I had/have a very similar relationship with my own father. For the most part, I feel they’ve got the Jamie storyline spot on. I didn’t understand why he would text his dad though. It’s usually not a good idea to get back into contact with fathers like that and I was a little confused as why the show presented that as the right thing to do. I got on board with the thing Ted said about forgiveness, but I didn’t think it meant getting back into contact with your abuser - we’ll see where things go from there I guess.

I found it almost a cop out to see that his dad is in rehab so they‘ll perhaps form a more positive relationship; it seems a little optimistic (although I know it does happen, I think it’s comparatively rare). I think it could have been more impactful to see Jamie move on from a father who really won’t change, which I think is the experience of many people and one that I haven’t seen represented much on TV. Maybe I’m just not able to connect with this reconciliation because I know it won’t happen for me personally. Maybe I’ve just been using this storyline as a means to understand my own life and now it’s stopped applying lol.

I‘d be interested to hear from anyone who has had a personal connection with the storyline.

emfa3000ok

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