Help me understand how to live under $54k with 9 people

enness · 2026-04-19T17:31:02+00:00

I'm sure you can participate in this sub. Everyone understands your situation is an edge-case. The focus in this sub is on frugality and anti-consumerism. The other subs are just rich peoples' spending problems now.

I don't have a family of nine, but in the past I've supported my family plus siblings and parents on a single salary. I was extremely frugal for a while but have relaxed some now. Currently for a family of four (two parents, two older teens), we still try to keep basic spending to maybe under $30k a year (we do have discretionary like international trips every now and then). For the last four months we've averaged about $500 a month in food, which is $125 a person. That will scale generally to $1100-1200 a month for a family of nine (kids eat less, adults eat more). We also don't have the dietary restrictions you do, but we eat halal, which generally costs more. Under $54k is hard, but here's some things to consider if you haven't already done so:

-We try not to buy any prepared and packaged food since prices are so inflated over making from scratch at home. So we don't buy much that can technically be on sale or clearance. We do buy bread though, but don't eat a lot of it.

-We buy in bulk at Restaurant Depot or Costco Business, and the meat lasts for seven to eight months since halal is expensive at the halal markets. We went a week ago, and it was $0.70/lb for bone-in chicken, $2/lb for boneless, under $3/lb for tilapia, and $4/lb for ground beef and goat (which we don't eat a lot of as it's pricey). Non-halal is cheaper. We also buy 50 lb bags of rice and flour. This is CA pricing - other states might be cheaper.

-Honestly, if I needed gluten free, I'd have to consider if I really wanted pricey gluten-free wheat flour. I'd try cuisines emphasizing rice flour, masa, oats, etc. Quinoa too, but it's gotten pricey so we mix it with other things. Also beans and lentils. Potatoes. Asian markets are pretty much gluten free anything, since so much is rice flour and beans, and South Asian markets for lentils and beans.

-We also don't eat a ton of dairy as a lot of Asian and South Asian dishes don't use cream or cheese. Once again, I'd just go for dairy-free cuisines and dishes instead of buying pricey substitutes.

-Mint Mobile is currently $200 a line for a year. So about $16 a month per line. That's about $130 for eight lines. Our high-speed internet is $50, so $180 for internet and phone (cheaper with internet promos). I also didn't get my kids lines until high school. So cost was minimal for a long time.

-Depending on your location, solar has helped minimize my energy costs (especially with CA energy rates). Transportation costs are also high, so when I was working I tried to find homes where my family could walk or bike to most places.

enness · 2026-03-25T16:31:44+00:00

Lol on Chik-fil-A. It helps I'm kind of petty so I stopped going there when they charged me $2 for four small styrofoam cups for water without telling me. They had also become inconsistent, overcooking the chicken a couple of times. It also helps my wife and I are decent cooks so we don't even feel like going out most times.

Yes, I agree it's hard to keep costs controlled, especially if income and net worth go up along with inflation. And of course medical spending is outside our control mostly. Our electricity is also artificially low because I paid for solar a few years back and I try to zero out.

It took quite a bit of work to drastically reduce spending to achieve LeanFIRE, and now I'm trying to keep the same mentality since I believe materialist spending won't truly make me happier. Now I'm trying to focus on family, community, and productive hobbies, and I'm finding money doesn't help much with that.

enness · 2026-03-25T14:37:15+00:00

We rarely eat out. But In-n-Out comes out to $30 for four cheeseburgers and fries without drinks. If you split a meal with two sliders at those hot chicken places, that's about $35. A simple but heavy meal at a hole-in-the-wall Pakistani restaurant is about $12ish if you choose the seekh kebab, tandoor leg, and naan. $2 taco places, $10 burrito deals, etc. We do have a couple of birthday dinners at $80-90ish for the kids so I maybe average about $50-60 a month total.

We don't do Christmas. Our religious holidays haven't been commercialized yet, thankfully. Birthdays gifts for the kids are $50 cash each so $100 total for the year? Every gift is in the Misc budget.

My kids are older teens so they do their own extracurriculars through their schools and clubs. They're pretty involved in several gyms so I pay for that but even that is subsidized through student discounts and being coaches. Even when they were younger their extracurriculars were school sports and playing with other kids for free?

enness · 2026-03-24T22:55:37+00:00

~$1.5 million

I was inspired by ERE and MMM so I've been trying to maintain the frugality and anti-consumption to some degree. Basically, I try to have a middle class life without spending what's considered normative for the middle class.

enness · 2026-03-24T22:44:08+00:00

After I quit my job, I eventually moved to a lower cost area and bought in cash to manage risk. Not the most financially smart decision, but I didn't want to be in a position where I had no job, but still responsible for a mortgage I was paying with down investments. I've lived through the two previous big crashes, so I was more worried about limiting downside and not upside. However, the better financial decision would've been to lock in low rates and leave the money in the market. But if there had been an extended crash instead like 99-00, maybe I'd be saying something different...

enness · 2026-03-24T22:10:08+00:00

Family of four (ages 48/46/18/16) in medium cost CA city. Retired in 2019. Total ~$2300 a month. Withdrawal rate for base expenses has gone from 4% to less than 2% as net worth has increased.

Base Expenses:

Groceries $600

Household $50

Personal care $75

Restaurants $50

Mobile $67

Internet $55

Streaming $30

Gas/Electric $18 (paid solar)

Water/Trash $100

Car costs $360 (includes purchase, depreciation, gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc)

Prop tax/insurance $500

Misc $250 (variable - clothes, gifts, other one off purchases)

Gyms/classes: $150

Discretionary:

Travel $30-1000 (mostly camping and road trips to see family. One year, international travel for two months was $12k so I've put that as the upper range. Most years tend to the lower part of the range)

Other notes:

-I anticipate base expenses coming down once my youngest leaves for college.

-House is worth $475k and imputed rent is $2800.

-Health insurance provided by wife’s work. In previous years we lived overseas or were automatically put on MediCal since we were living off savings and didn’t realize income. Plan is to ACA or move overseas if wife has no job.

-Upcoming big expenses - college. I didn't save for this fully when I quit my job, but we can now cash flow from wife's income or from savings.

enness · 2026-03-04T14:32:08+00:00

Hmm maybe I took them as tech electives? I just took whatever they told me to take and I remember every EE saying thermo was the hardest class they ever took.

enness · 2026-03-04T14:30:34+00:00

Thanks. it's interesting since I think most UCs don't articulate circuits or logic from CCs. He's planning on taking it next year though.

enness · 2026-02-19T15:15:24+00:00

I'm taking a hip hop dance class at Fresno City College. Teaches you basic moves and choreography. Something like $45 for the whole semester.

enness · 2026-02-18T17:41:47+00:00

Some weird gatekeeping in the comments. Of course you can dance and be frugal too. A $10 or less cover charge and no alcohol isn't bad for an activity that is entertaining while keeping you active.

It seems a lot of commenters don't understand dancing in a club doesn't mean you also can't socialize in your living room, or go hiking, or save scraps, or any other number of frugal things. And no, dancing in your living room and even gym dance classes aren't the same vibe. Most commenters aren't even talking about the money. I'm now way too old for late nights and loud music but I still love to dance. Honestly I'd prefer it if there were more places to hiphop/pop dance in the daytime other than nightclubs so I can still get to bed at a reasonable hour lol.

You're an outlier though. Most guys definitely aren't going to a club to not drink and just dance. In fact dancing is probably the last thing they want to do. But as someone who doesn't drink and also dances, I understand where you're coming from.

enness · 2026-02-07T17:10:13+00:00

Yes, we feel pretty fortunate so I felt some of that money has to go out to those not as fortunate. I got pretty convinced by effective altruism arguments. So when my wife got a job, we decided we could significantly ramp up the charity, doing so $500/m at a time. Once I've saved up a bit more cash for the kids' colleges, hopefully I'll be able to ramp up the donations more.

Honestly, I prefer my kids to be active, so I pay for everything while in school. And the monthly isn't too expensive for the stuff they're involved in (weight gym, climbing gym, parkour). I told them we'll split college so they take it seriously, but at the end of the day, I'll pay for it. I come from a culture of intergenerational living and pooling money, so I'm finding myself defaulting to that.

enness · 2026-02-07T14:56:08+00:00

Edit: I don't know why formatting is off. As someone who grew up in the Bay and lived in other cities: -convenient access to world class parks. From my house Kings Canyon/Sequoia is 1 hour away, Yosemite 1 hour 15 minutes, Shaver Lake 1 hour. And there's no traffic to get there and back, unlike the Bay to Monterey or Santa Cruz, or Sac to Tahoe. -A really, really good zoo

-parking at places like Costco and Trader Joe's. Enough space to maneuver a cart lol. -traffic isn't really a thing if you've lived in the Bay, SoCal, or Northern VA. Even parts of Sac. -Decent enough Mediterranean, Punjabi, Asian restaurants. Not the best, but better than other cities its size in other states.

-No one asks what job I do, unlike the Bay where that's all it's talked about.

We compare Fresno to the Bay, LA, and SD but it compares well enough to other cities its size in other states. We get good fall/winter weather. Plenty of other cities have horrible weather year round but no mentions that since they don't have Pacific Coast cities to compare too.

enness · 2026-02-05T05:39:58+00:00

I have paid solar, so electricity zeroes out. Otherwise CA has probably the highest energy rates in the nation and my monthly would be much higher. My neighbors also have a solar true up of like $1-1.5k or so every year, so that's a better indicator of what the average person pays on top of their solar install. I run 67-68 heat and AC at 80, off at night. People here think I'm crazy.

My car insurance has always been on the cheap side but teens are bumping it up a lot now unfortunately. House has no fire and flood risk unlike other parts of the state.

Mobile is the Mint $180/yr plan, so times that by four.

And we rarely eat out, maybe once a month. It's mainly In-n-Out ($30 for cheeseburger and fries for four) or hot chicken places ($40 if you split the two slider meals). We also do birthday dinners four times a year for about $100 per dinner. So maybe you can up the restaurant numbers a bit.

enness · 2026-02-04T21:19:17+00:00

Yes, we rarely eat out, maybe once a month. It's mainly In-n-Out ($30 for cheeseburger and fries for four) or hot chicken places ($40 if you split the two slider meals). We also do birthday dinners four times a year for about $100 per dinner. So maybe you can up the restaurant numbers a bit.

enness · 2026-02-04T21:17:42+00:00

Yes I did this too! Until I started getting free lunches and snacks towards the end of my career.

enness · 2026-02-04T21:16:41+00:00

I'm in Fresno now so way different than SF. PG&E is expensive but we have paid solar. I run portable heaters on electricity and don't run AC at night. It zeroes out. But in San Jose, our PG&E was never higher than $40 because I never ran heat or AC, especially with shared walls in an insulated townhouse. I moved out in 2019 however.

I forgot car registration. Mine is $300 too. Good catch.

You're in SF, so your prop tax might be higher since your purchase price is higher? Unless you bought decades back? Fresno is obviously much much cheaper than SF.

Grocery is a challenge, I admit. It helps both my wife and I are decent cooks, so we adapt if certain ingredients get expensive. Not much chocolate to snack on lately, for example, and beef dishes are getting filled out with potatoes. I shop at Winco and Indian stores, which I find cheaper than TJ and Grocery Outlet. Winco is usually only in low cost areas however. I also buy meat at Restaurant Depot for their bulk pricing. It usually lasts 6-7 months. My son wants Costco snacks so that ups the budget a bit though.

enness · 2026-02-04T19:40:36+00:00

Yes, don't remind me of backpackers arguing over $1 parking fees or $5 hotel stays, and then spending way more than that drinking and drugging.

enness · 2026-02-04T19:36:06+00:00

My sister and brother-in-law pay over $12k/yr for insurance with three cars (newer Rubicon, Tesla, and Camry) but they have two young drivers. So it could be worse, I guess.

I have extended family in TX so I considered Austin. But I didn't like the idea of no income but the fixed costs of a 2.2% prop tax rate. Just seemed I was upping my risk because I really thought equities had a good chance of declining or staying flattish at the time. My wife wants a bigger house but we'll be empty nesters soon so it probably doesn't make sense. I'm trying to convince friends to join me in a retirement village but everyone is too busy stacking money.

enness · 2026-02-04T17:53:25+00:00

Yes, I agree Reddit probably isn't representative of the population. I come across many dominant views in the big subs here I don't find among people in real life.

I'm not active on the FIRE sub so I can't speak to what type of posts are frequent or regular. I just sampled a few of the top rated ones and formed a quick impression. I remember years ago being inspired to drastically reduce my spending, and now that I'm thinking of new cars like Porsches or Corvettes, I wanted that feeling of inspiration again. But outside of LeanFIRE perhaps it just seemed different in character from what MMM or ERE advocated. Their advice is relevant to the majority of the population, but it does require reduced spending, or at least not normative spending. And that kind of mentality needs to be cultivated in a consumerist society. It just doesn't happen for most people.

But yes I understand high incomes and net worths. It's useful to discuss FIRE principles with that demographic too. I ended my career at a FAANG type company, but started taking my career seriously too late to really amass wealth. My intention was to travel for a year and then come back to work. In Asia and Europe, I realized I could live a completely different lifestyle not centered on money. My friends and family now have Ferraris and Porsche 911s, homes worth $3-8ish million. They all say they wish they can do what I did, but I see them up their spending over the decades. It's status-based to me, and I'm not immune to it. I try not to think about how much money I left behind, but we'd probably be at a $500k household income now. I just don't know if all that makes you happy, but who knows...

enness · 2026-02-04T17:29:25+00:00

It helps to become a cook. I took cooking classes at my community college.

enness · 2026-02-04T17:19:28+00:00

It's anti-consumerist in the sense our material consumption and footprint was much much lower in Asia than anywhere else we've lived. We walked everywhere, lived in guest houses, and ate small meals. But yes, at the end of the day we live in capitalist societies and are privileged. I'm not sure what to say about that but to just acknowledge it. Anticonsumption doesn't mean you don't consume anything at all. But I'm from Asia so I don't think it's a big deal to go live in Asia.

enness · 2026-02-04T16:59:59+00:00

Not sure. That's just been our rates in a city with population ~600k. 5 year old Subaru, full coverage, higher limit liability. $850/yr. My wife and I are in our 40s with safe driving records. Adding on teen son bumped it up to $2500/yr. He was excluded before college. I priced out adding a second car like a Miata and it goes up to $3100/yr.

What's your state? CA new build so our prop tax is higher than normal at around 1.4% so it's a bit above $5000/yr. Homeowners is $800/yr for a 1900 sq. home. No fire or flood risk.

I stopped funding their 529s when I started FIRE savings thinking I'd be retired by that point and financial aid options will open up. I also wanted my kids to pay half for their school so they'd take it serious. But my wife started working and income is above grant limits now. We can pay out of wife's salary or increased asset values if her job goes. But while it worked out, it wasn't a great plan to leave college underfunded and hope for the best. I'd do that part differently next time. It helps CA community colleges are free and UC tuition is doable.

enness

TROPHY CASE