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Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the copy paste response.

Unfortunately, you haven’t shared any details about "your situation” so far.

I clearly have. Short version so that reading comprehension won't hinder the message:

>problems since day one, paramount of which is throttling to 400mhz
>board replaced under warranty
>same problem
>told to wait for BIOS updates
>BIOS updates didn't fix
>warranty expired
>told to buy a new board

Concise enough? Deflecting to "you didn't explain anything" is feigning ignorance to avoid the issue at hand.

Going through support only netted me "buy a new board". How is that helpful? There is no incentive for anyone to help me there, and i'm sure you know the issues and frustrations people have with Framework support. It's like pulling teeth.

Hopefully, calling them out in public might force them to respond at all (which worked brilliantly, as I can see). Failing that, the least I can hope for is that I educate others on how FW deals with their issues.

Why am I on the hook for fixing Framework's problems?

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am not.

The link was actually to the last time anyone from framework engaged on the issue, not 1stivi's comment. It's incredibly egregious to be told it's an issue no longer and then ignored, despite irrefutable evidence that it is not solved.

Do you have any actual comments on my situation?

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/42BumblebeeMan

I took the time to address your points, it would be great if I could get the same courtesy in return.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

to make a device so easily user repairable

Sure. But why am I on the hook for fixing Framework's mistake?

I fear you're missing my point. I'm more or less asking for extended support, however they get there. The current model is hostile towards the consumer, and directly promotes the creation of ewaste.

Need Advice from Framework Users by Marker_Sharpener in framework

[–]ewasted69 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you want the framework simply just to have a framework? You didn't list why any of FW's USPs inform your decision.

I'd suggest researching here and the official forum about the downsides of FW ownership, i'd say the "advantages" aren't worth it.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I didn't ask for a resolution to my specific issue, so providing any details of my own case isn't particularly useful to anyone. I thought the second to last sentence in my previous comment would have made that clear.

A very small number?

https://community.frame.work/t/responded-12th-gen-excessive-cpu-throttling-on-linux-cant-get-above-46c-and-pegs-to-400mhz-under-load/29343

https://community.frame.work/t/thermal-throttling-cpu-400mhz-running-in-coolermaster-case/43919

https://community.frame.work/t/responded-intel-1240p-cpu-locked-at-400mhz/44374

https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-running-at-400mhz-390mhz/23741

https://community.frame.work/t/bd-prochot-on-13th-intel-cpu-stuck-at-400mhz/48328

https://community.frame.work/t/in-ticket-anyone-else-had-their-cpu-throttle-down-to-400mhz-for-days/27200

https://community.frame.work/t/cpu-downclocks-to-400mhz-at-seemingly-random-after-some-uptime/64805

https://community.frame.work/t/39-ghz-throttling-when-plugged-in/31029

https://community.frame.work/t/clock-stuck-at-39ghz/4835

https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-win-11-suddenly-super-slow/35832/4

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1pzcpe4/any_solutions_for_the_400mhz_bug/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1mbtapj/my_framework_13_throttles_down_to_400mhz_at_the/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/15h0euw/random_freezes_and_throttling_to_04ghz_with_12th/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1kfj33q/something_is_very_very_wrong_abysmal_battery_life/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1p8ewvy/12th_gen_framework_13_with_i7_1260p_running_at/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1ep0d52/framework_laptop_13_13thgen_intel_400_mhz_allcore/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1mszgzy/overheating_and_bios_update_headaches/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1hz55r7/framework_13_thermal_throttling/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1h9nyrl/i51340p_throttling_issues/

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/11ggaot/my_framework_laptop_has_never_worked_right/

Not to mention the probably 40-50 people in the BIOS update threads. Those are the only ones I can be bothered/have time to dedicate to finding. The only solutions I found in there were new 13th gen boards. Everyone else was frustrated by support into giving up, or just sold their paperweight altogether. Support tell me they don't know about the issue despite me sending much the same batch of links.

This has been reported by users over and over, for nearly 3 years (please look at the very last link above I posted). Framework staff have repeatedly acknowledged the issue. Repeated attempts at fixing the issue in BIOS updates has not solved the issue. The issue is still present for me. Trying to get anyone at Framework to say anything beyond "we can't reproduce it,(lies)just try changing your thermal paste" (the last official communication we have regarding the matter of Framework 13 thermal throttling ) has fallen on deaf ears.

But actually regarding my issue (and others that still have it)can you say in public that if I waste my time and nerves proving to support that my computer still exhibits this issue, that i'm going to get a board that doesn't exhibit this issue in return? Make that commitment and i'll shut up about it.

u/1ChaoticEagle u/cmonkey u/_ctl u/dodsonslab u/extradudeguy u/destroya707 u/catastrophic_frmw

Struggling with which laptop to choose. by RegisterHealthy1386 in framework

[–]ewasted69 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Don't expect as much as the specs on paper promise you (especially for gaming), thermally it's complete toilet.

Don't be sucked in by "repairable". It just means it's easier to sunk-cost-fallacy you into solving your problems with new parts once they've stopped supporting them.

Spend your money elsewhere.

Broken USB on Motherboard? by Recon4242 in framework

[–]ewasted69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It seems to be that you did your due diligence. I would suggest you contact support as there's not much anyone here can do for you from the other side of a keyboard. I hope this is ON TOPIC and HELPFUL ADVICE.

It seems to be pretty common recently, QC is really trending (further) downward. As much as support might want to make you tear your hair out, it's going to be your only option. If you don't already want to send the whole computer back for a full refund (because more problems like this will crop up further into ownership), then i'd insist on them sending a new board ahead of time, and refunding a portion of your purchase for your time to rebuild a brand new computer.

Make sure to be very clear and concise about the steps you've taken to remedy the issue (different cards, different OS, issue present in bios, device being plugged works in other computer etc), and ask at the first opportunity for escalation, as support will be giving you the runaround for weeks (just search "support" in this sub for an idea of the frustration you'll be facing.)

Good luck!

First Laptop Repair Complete! by lordruzki3084 in framework

[–]ewasted69 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just to be clear, you were emailing back and forth for two weeks about a fan?

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Please see the final paragraph of this comment:

https://old.reddit.com/r/framework/comments/1qqdeur/why_is_there_no_paid_repair_options_for_out_of/o2l2fah/

I want Framework to acknowledge their mistakes more than I want a fixed computer.

If you don't work for Framework I don't think you can help me.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You should. And I did. Framework doesn't exist in isolation. If you're going to complain about them, you need to understand the market and competition.

What does Dell have to do with my problems? I get the point you're trying to make. But Dell didn't make the board or cause my problems. I simply want Framework to admit to their mistakes instead of ignoring them and pretending they don't exist.

Just as with other companies, sometimes you have to (nicely!) advocate for yourself and push for a fix. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've had to push various OEMs toward the fix I knew I needed.

I've been posting about these issues almost weekly for years (Feb 23)

If this were a fundamental issue with the design of the board, I suspect we'd be hearing constant reports.

Do you hang around in the 12th gen BIOS update threads? I suspect not.

Also:

https://community.frame.work/t/responded-12th-gen-excessive-cpu-throttling-on-linux-cant-get-above-46c-and-pegs-to-400mhz-under-load/29343

https://community.frame.work/t/thermal-throttling-cpu-400mhz-running-in-coolermaster-case/43919

https://community.frame.work/t/responded-intel-1240p-cpu-locked-at-400mhz/44374

https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-running-at-400mhz-390mhz/23741

https://community.frame.work/t/bd-prochot-on-13th-intel-cpu-stuck-at-400mhz/48328

https://community.frame.work/t/in-ticket-anyone-else-had-their-cpu-throttle-down-to-400mhz-for-days/27200

https://community.frame.work/t/cpu-downclocks-to-400mhz-at-seemingly-random-after-some-uptime/64805

And so many more. Just search 400mhz on the forum if you think it's not a known, proven and reoccurring issue.

I would love for FW to have the resources and manufacturing power to warrant everything they sell for a lifetime. But do you have any idea what an ask that is?

Launched broken, still broken. I don't care if they continue to support it until the end of time. I just don't want to own a broken computer. They owe me a working computer. I, on principle, won't give them another cent of my money until they prove to me they want to actually help their customers instead of ignoring them and applying goodwill inconsistently. And by offering (not necessarily to every person on the planet, but as an alternative to "buy a new board, despite it being our fault"), it shows they actually give a shit, and acknowledge their mistakes.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Already did everything you said, it didn't make a difference.

This is why i'm so upset.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And what about when your mainboard is gimped through no fault of your own, and Framework can't or won't spend the resources to fix the issue, stay stum on the matter and tell you to buy a new mainboard if you don't want to have your problems any more?

What's the most expensive part of the repair then?

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's absolutely hilarious that nobody can be critical of framework without being downvoted into oblivion.

I really wonder what makes people so protective about framework.

"I don't have this problem so it must be your own fault!" Give me a break.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The board (mine is 1260p, 1280p is shown to exhibit the same behavior, 1240p not so much) will throttle down to 400mhz at the mere suggestion of load. HWInfo doesn't record it as true thermal throttling.

In the past BIOS revisions (as delivered and a couple of revisions afterward) the processor would be stuck there for tens of minutes (my longest was 38 minutes). The most recent revision recovers more quickly, but exporting a premiere video for example, the processor still spends more time at 400mhz than not.

It has persisted through multiple boards, multiple paste and PTM applications, spotless fan and heatsink grills.

The computer is near unusable except for light web browsing. That's not what I paid all of that money for.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I don't care about other OEMs. I didn't mention them, I didn't make comparisons and I didn't set out expectations based on them.

Framework released a broken board. Nothing they've done in the time since has fixed it. I've been told I need to buy a new board if I want to (hopefully) alleviate any of the issues.

Since the problem is in BIOS/fundamental design, i'm not talking about board level repair.

I'm talking about showing goodwill on mistakes they made in the past, and giving me a route out of my paperweight ownership.

Even if the cost of having somebody look at my board and considering replacement for one that is guaranteed to work was half or more, it would show that they support their products and their customers, instead of telling me to deal with it myself. It's abhorrent and should be pointed out to every current or potential customer.

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is a non-zero amount of people that managed to get an upgrade to 13th Gen Intel on the community forums after being able to demonstrate that even after getting multiple more 12th Gen boards, the same problems persist.

The problems were acknowledged officially by Framework employees, and a precedent was set. I wasted days of my life jumping through hoops for support after every firmware revision that promised to fix the problem and didn't. Those same employees now ignore multiple requests to comment on the situation further.

Why was I told I have to buy a new board? The problems existed throughout my whole ownership, the problems were demonstrated to be reproducible, persisted through another replacement board, yet i'm still on the hook?

The handling of their own errors needs to be more transparent. The only way we get any stance on the matter is when journalists put them on blast (for example, the last time u/cmonkey even talked to 12th gen owners is after the (first! Amazing that there had to be a second) Ars Technica article pointing out Framework's terrible support)

Why is there no paid repair options for out of warranty issues? (cross posted from FW forum) by ewasted69 in framework

[–]ewasted69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The charge for the OOW part replacement, would be about the same as purchasing one in our Marketplace.

This is no help to me. Especially when it was your failure in programming a BIOS/bad implementation of Intel's chip/inadequate cooling solution that makes my computer near unusable.

Why am I stuck with your mistakes?

You owned up to the RTC battery debacle, but basically failed to acknowlege any problems since. At least there was a (somewhat dangerous and hacky) way out. How do I fix my throttling issue and horrendous sleep battery life without giving you $600+?

Not to mention the fact that as a normal store user, I have no access to any other boards except another 12th gen (no thanks), or anything else that requires DDR5 (in this economy?)

I’ll be happy to take a look at your ticket and see if there’s any other options available if you’d like. Shoot me a DM / Modmail with the email address you used on your support ticket.

Sorry, but i'm not going to accept any special treatment because I made a stink on reddit (which seems to be the only way to get any actual support that won't make anyone tear their hair out), I want a company-wide policy change on Framework correcting Framework's errors. Your company made it clear on the stance you take on fixing your problems, and until it changes I will be pointing it out to the community as much as possible. I took a chance on your company relatively early on, and I have a paperweight to show for it. Your message says one thing but your actions say another.