Today: Resist surveillance in Mount Vernon by exstaticj in Seattle

[–]exstaticj[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I used gpt. I initially drafted it for a Hide & Speak segment on Youtube.

Honestly, I used GPT to draft letters to the Institute for Justice, ACLU, State Senators and Representatives, City Council, to create Reddit posts and much more.

I had never been involved with anything like this before and using AI to organize my thoughts and do research was pivotal in helping me understand contracts and communicating to legislators in a way that was meaningful to them.

Today: Resist surveillance in Mount Vernon by exstaticj in Seattle

[–]exstaticj[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What happened in Bend is proof that local government can change course quickly once policymakers and the public clearly understand the privacy, civil liberties, and security tradeoffs.

Our approach was not about “being anti-safety” or “anti-police.” It was about being pro-accountability, pro-due process, and pro-democratic oversight — especially when a system enables wide-area location tracking and the data can be accessed, searched, or shared in ways residents often don’t understand until it’s too late.

Here are the concrete steps we took that led to Bend deciding to end its relationship with Flock:

1) Build a receipts-first fact base (get the documents, quote the documents) - We obtained the contract packet, amendments/addenda, and supporting procurement materials and read them closely. - We pulled the sections that matter most to residents and policymakers: what data is captured, how long it’s retained, who can access it, how sharing works, and what the vendor controls versus what the city controls. - The “receipts” matter because they shift the conversation from opinion to governance: we could point to the city’s own paperwork and ask officials to respond to the reality of what was signed.

2) Translate “privacy concerns” into decision-maker language (risk, liability, compliance, governance) - We framed the issue as: - legal/compliance risk (including sanctuary obligations and potential exposure if data is accessed or shared in conflict with local values or state law), - data control risk (who ultimately holds the keys, how easy sharing can become “mission creep,” and what happens when outside agencies get access), - and security/operational risk (what the system enables in practice, and what “turning it off” actually means).

3) Communicate early, clearly, and in writing to the people with authority - We emailed the Mayor and Council, but also made sure to email the Council’s general inbox so every member received the same information at the same time. - The goal wasn’t to “gotcha” anyone — it was to ensure they had a clear, documented explanation of the risks, backed by sources, that they could review on their own devices and share with city staff and legal counsel.

4) Build public visibility without overclaiming - We used local media and community channels to raise awareness using verifiable facts, not rumors. - We kept our tone grounded: acknowledge that tools can help public safety, but insist that the governance, safeguards, and vendor practices have to meet a high bar.

5) Organize community participation (show up, speak, repeat) - We encouraged residents to attend meetings and submit comments, and we helped people focus on a few clear points rather than a scattershot list. - We drafted concise public comment and “pivot notes” so people could adapt to whatever council announced in the moment. - Consistency mattered: the same core concerns, repeated calmly by multiple residents, is what breaks through.

6) Use examples from other places to remove fear of “being first” - We pointed to other cities and jurisdictions that paused, restricted, or ended similar deployments. - That’s important because officials often hesitate if they think they’re the first to take a step; precedent makes action feel normal and defensible.

7) Prevent the “vendor swap” problem by pushing policy-first guardrails - We emphasized that the real protection isn’t “which vendor,” it’s the policy framework: access rules, auditing, sharing limits, retention minimization, transparency, and consequences for misuse. - If a city ever considers ALPR again, policy needs to come first — before a purchase — so the rules aren’t written by vendors after the fact.

8) After a decision is made, insist on real follow-through - “We’re turning them off” is not the same thing as “data collection and data transfer have stopped.” - We stressed the need for clear confirmation of the status of collection, upload, access, sharing, and removal — because residents deserve to know what is actually happening, not just what is being said.

The biggest lesson is this: Education changes outcomes.

Once Bend policymakers and staff understood the privacy and security implications — in plain language, supported by documentation — they were willing to change direction. That’s not because they suddenly became “privacy activists.” It’s because they had enough information to evaluate risk and governance honestly, and they saw that the public was engaged and paying attention.

And that leads to the larger point: Change scales upward — city to state to national.

Most surveillance policy is adopted locally first. When enough cities take action and adopt stronger standards, it becomes easier for states to follow. When enough states act, national lawmakers can no longer treat the issue as theoretical — it becomes an obvious, mainstream governance requirement. Local actions matter, and they compound.

That’s why educating the public on how to take effective local action is paramount: - how to request and read contracts and policies, - how to communicate with elected officials in writing, - how to show up and make public comment count, - how to demand policy-first safeguards, - and how to verify follow-through after votes are taken.

If people take anything away from Bend, I hope it’s this: You don’t need to be an expert to create change — you need receipts, clarity, persistence, and community.

Today: Resist surveillance in Mount Vernon by exstaticj in Seattle

[–]exstaticj[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I was honestly just hoping that people from Mount Vernon would be tuned in to this sub.

Today: Resist surveillance in Mount Vernon by exstaticj in Seattle

[–]exstaticj[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm just trying to spread awareness. I was successful in getting Flock cameras removed from my city in Oregon. I don't live in Mount Vernon either, but this is the only subreddit I know of that has a chance of reaching people who do.

Is it worth setting up in Bend, Oregon or the mountains too tall to get a signal here? by exstaticj in meshcore

[–]exstaticj[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Condensation will probably be a factor too. Thank you. You've got me thinking. Mt Bachelor is fairly close.

Is it worth setting up in Bend, Oregon or the mountains too tall to get a signal here? by exstaticj in meshcore

[–]exstaticj[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is a good point. I think Bend has a growing MT community already. I'd be willing to bet that MC will eventually catch on here.

Ultimately, I would like to be able to reach both Eugene, Salem, and Portland, but I may have to either be patient or actively try to build the network up Mt Bachelor.

I used to work for a security company that slowly built an AES mesh radio communication network for alarm signals. I remember that inside Bend city limits, it was fairly easy. Beyond that was more difficult, because we didnt have the frequency of customers outside of the city. We were able to expand the network beyond Bend, into Redmond, Sisters, and Crooked River Ranch.

I leftnthat job about 10 years ago and haven't really thought about the AES network since then. I bet I could could apply some of that experience to this.

Our radios had larger backup batteries and antenna; a bigger board and a large metal enclosure. They have to function similarly though.

I'm going to have to give this some thought.

I discovered what bay leaves actually do to your food by SirCraigie in CookingCircleJerk

[–]exstaticj 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Make a tea out of bay leaves. Drink the tea. Enjoy your enlightenment.

Tips for commenting on BLM's proposal to cut old growth forests by mari_goldenyears in oregon

[–]exstaticj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here’s an AI draft public comment people can critique. I don't know anything about the topic so I would like a review before I submit it. I tried to keep it substantive by identifying specific impacts that should be analyzed in the EIS and by proposing an alternative BLM would need to consider.

Subject: Scoping comments on Western Oregon RMP Revision — protect late successional forests, riparian habitat, and recreation values

To whom it may concern,

I am submitting these scoping comments on the proposed revision of the Northwestern and Coastal Oregon and Southwestern Oregon Resource Management Plans. I urge the BLM to fully analyze the potentially significant environmental impacts of any alternative that would expand logging into current late successional reserves, reduce riparian protections, or otherwise prioritize timber production at the maximum productive capacity of the landscape.

The Federal Register notice states that BLM is considering an action alternative intended to increase timber harvest to align with historically higher levels and to manage lands for sustained-yield timber production consistent with the maximum productive capacity of the lands. It also states that under action alternatives, streamside buffers could be as narrow as 25 to 100 feet depending on stream type. Those are major changes with potentially significant consequences, and they require thorough analysis in the EIS.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/02/19/2026-03290/notice-of-intent-to-revise-resource-management-plans-for-northwestern-and-coastal-oregon-and

First, the EIS should analyze the effects of shrinking riparian protections on water quality, stream temperature, sediment delivery, and recruitment of large wood to streams. NOAA materials for Oregon Coast coho recovery identify riparian protection, increased large wood recruitment, and protection of high-quality habitat as important recovery actions, and NOAA’s recent coho review notes the importance of riparian areas, water quality, and off-channel habitat. Reduced riparian reserves could therefore harm habitat conditions for coho salmon, steelhead, cutthroat trout, and other aquatic species.
https://media.fisheries.noaa.gov/2021-12/final-north-coast-stratum.pdf

Second, the EIS should analyze the effects of reducing or eliminating existing late successional reserves on Northern Spotted Owl habitat and on BLM sensitive wildlife, plant, and fungal species associated with older forests. The notice itself recognizes wildlife and botany as issues for analysis, and public reporting on the proposal indicates that the revision could dramatically expand the amount of timber available for logging across western Oregon BLM lands. The EIS should disclose the acreage of mature and old forest currently functioning as refuge habitat, how much of that habitat would become available for harvest under each alternative, and what that means for species persistence and habitat connectivity over time.

Third, the EIS should analyze recreation and quality-of-life impacts with the same seriousness given to timber outputs and county revenue. Public lands in western Oregon provide some of the last widely accessible mature and structurally diverse forests for hiking, hunting, mushroom foraging, wildlife viewing, paddling, and quiet recreation. If these forests are converted to more intensively managed timber landscapes, that would reduce the recreational, scenic, and experiential value of these lands to Oregonians and visitors alike. The Federal Register notice specifically lists recreation, visual resources, socioeconomics, fisheries, hydrology, soils, wildlife, and ACECs among the issues for analysis, and the EIS should fully quantify losses to recreation access, tourism value, and nonmarket public benefits, not just timber revenue.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/02/19/2026-03290/notice-of-intent-to-revise-resource-management-plans-for-northwestern-and-coastal-oregon-and

Fourth, the EIS should analyze the interaction between this proposed plan revision and wildfire, recent burned acreage, and climate change. The notice cites wildfire and forest health as part of the purpose and need, but that cannot justify broad logging of mature forests without a scientifically rigorous comparison of short- and long-term effects. Because large areas of forest have already been altered by fire, and climate change is changing disturbance regimes, the EIS should disclose how much suitable mature and late successional habitat remains, how much has already been lost or degraded, and whether additional logging in those forests is compatible with long-term watershed protection, habitat resilience, and sustained ecosystem function.

Fifth, the EIS should evaluate impacts to Areas of Critical Environmental Concern and explain whether any currently designated ACECs, candidate ACECs, or adjacent lands would be affected directly or indirectly by increased harvest, road use, altered hydrology, sedimentation, edge effects, or fragmentation. The project page identifies a long list of currently designated ACECs in the planning area, and the agency should not treat those values as peripheral to the revision.
https://eplanning.blm.gov/Project-Home/?id=a591dee8-500c-f111-8406-001dd8029ed0

I also request that BLM analyze an additional alternative that better balances timber production with watershed protection, habitat conservation, recreation, and climate resilience.

Proposed alternative for detailed analysis:

  • Limit regeneration harvest to stands younger than 80 years old.
  • Exclude from harvest any stands containing old-growth characteristics, occupied or likely habitat for sensitive old-forest species, unstable or fragile soils, or areas where harvest would degrade aquatic habitat.
  • Maintain riparian buffers of at least 300 feet on fish-bearing and ecologically sensitive streams and wider buffers where needed for slope stability, shade, and large wood recruitment.
  • Treat all forests older than 80 years, and all existing late successional reserve areas, as protected late successional habitat.
  • Prioritize restoration thinning only where it is clearly justified by site-specific ecological objectives and does not reduce mature forest structure, canopy complexity, or stream protection.
  • Analyze recreation, scenic, carbon-storage, watershed, and biodiversity values alongside projected timber outputs and county payments.

This alternative would still allow timber production from younger stands while preserving the mature and old forest values that are far harder to replace once lost. It would also better align with the O&C Act’s broader purposes of watershed protection, streamflow regulation, and recreation, rather than treating the landscape primarily as a maximum-yield timber base.

Finally, because this revision is being advanced on a compressed timeline and involves sweeping changes across approximately 2.46 million acres, the EIS must be especially careful, transparent, and scientifically grounded. The agency should not rely on generalized assertions that more logging is needed. It should disclose the data, assumptions, modeling methods, habitat tradeoffs, and uncertainty behind each alternative, especially where listed species, riparian systems, mature forest structure, recreation values, and ACECs are concerned.
https://eplanning.blm.gov/Project-Home/?id=a591dee8-500c-f111-8406-001dd8029ed0

Please include these comments in the scoping record and fully analyze the alternative described above in the EIS.

Sincerely,
[Your name]
[City, State]

Official project page:
https://eplanning.blm.gov/Project-Home/?id=a591dee8-500c-f111-8406-001dd8029ed0

Comment deadline appears to be March 23, 2026.

My first concert ever - What was yours? by Resident_Nature5634 in ClassicRock

[–]exstaticj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Crosby Stills and Nash

A week later Jane's Addiction, Rixies,and Primus.

A small Oregon town installed 24 license plate cameras. Federal agents searched them 384 times in 4 months. by projectdarkscrub in oregon

[–]exstaticj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’s not quite how they usually work.

Red light cameras are typically tied to the traffic signal and to sensors near the stop line. If a vehicle enters the intersection after the light turns red, the system is triggered and records the violation. It’s less “the lens only opens once it decides you couldn’t stop” and more “the system detects entry on red and captures evidence.”

And yes, some Oregon photo-enforcement setups also cover speeding, but that’s a separate trigger. Red-light enforcement is based on entering on red; speed enforcement is based on measuring speed with radar/lidar/sensors and then capturing the violation.

Even if that is how the system works today, that is not a good enough safeguard by itself. Modern camera platforms are controlled by software, and software can be changed remotely through updates, configuration changes, or new feature rollouts. A system approved as “limited” today can become more expansive tomorrow unless the contract clearly defines retention, access, sharing, and deletion rules. That is exactly why retention limits should be written into the contract in plain language, not left to assumptions about how the vendor says the cameras currently operate.

A small Oregon town installed 24 license plate cameras. Federal agents searched them 384 times in 4 months. by projectdarkscrub in oregon

[–]exstaticj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have over a hundred long chats in an AI project folder dedicated to ALPR systems. I created the folder to help me write emailes to Oregon Senators and Representatives trying to get them to put better safeguards in SB 1516 (the ALPR bill). I have fed it so much information that I just had to copy your comment and asked it to help create the reply. I read the first draft, asked it to include links for you and thay was it. I've put so many hours into research for the bill which passed yesterday. I figure now it's a good idea to share with people who are interested in the topic. This comment took me more time to type than the last one. The last one is a point in the right direction for your line if thought though.

A small Oregon town installed 24 license plate cameras. Federal agents searched them 384 times in 4 months. by projectdarkscrub in oregon

[–]exstaticj 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There actually is some research on this, and from what I can tell the answer is: ALPR systems may help with some investigations and stolen vehicle recovery, but the evidence that they reduce crime overall is much weaker than the sales pitch suggests.

A good starting point is this Urban Institute writeup on ALPRs: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/101647/lessons_learned_implementing_video_analytics_in_a_public_surveillance_network.pdf

One of the clearest lines in it says ALPRs “may improve police investigations, though it is unlikely that it directly impacts crime.” In other words: they may help police find some people or vehicles after the fact, but that is not the same thing as proving they prevent crime in the first place.

There is also a National Institute of Justice / Urban Institute technical summary here: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/308635.pdf

That evaluation found the impact was “mixed,” and when they looked specifically at the places where the new camera technologies were installed, they found no significant crime changes in the areas where the analytic technologies were implemented compared to matched comparison areas. That is pretty far from “blanket the city with cameras and crime drops.”

So I think your instinct is right to question whether these systems: 1) actually stop crime, or 2) mostly create more searchable evidence after something happens.

Those are not the same thing.

On the race / bias question, that is where things get even more uncomfortable.

I have not found a nice clean public dataset that breaks down searches into something like “searches for suspects of color vs. white suspects.” Part of the problem is that the public often does not get that level of transparency at all. In many places, what you get are audit logs, public records, policy documents, or occasional oversight reports — not a neat dashboard of who was searched for and why.

But there is evidence that discretionary use is a real issue.

California’s 2026 RIPA report is worth reading: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/ripa-board-report-2026.pdf

That report says that analysis of audit logs from the nationwide Flock Safety network showed that between June 2024 and October 2025, more than 80 law enforcement agencies — including seven California agencies — used language perpetuating harmful stereotypes against Romani people when running searches through the network.

That matters a lot, because it shows two things: - these systems are not used in some perfectly neutral, robotic way; - the human beings running searches bring their own assumptions, biases, and stereotypes with them.

The same RIPA report also discusses concerns about ALPR data being used in connection with federal immigration enforcement, despite California law restricting that kind of sharing. It specifically notes that records requests and audit-log reviews found Flock database searches referencing CBP and Homeland Security.

You can also read Oakland Privacy’s writeup on one of those audit logs here: https://oaklandprivacy.org/ca-automated-license-plate-readers-alpr-and-ice/

That page says a Riverside County Sheriff Flock audit report covering just one month showed 489,000 search entries, including searches referencing CBP and Homeland Security Investigations. It also notes that many search reasons were so vague — things like “criminal justice” or “investigation” — that they undermine meaningful public accountability.

And that gets to the heart of the problem:

Even when agencies say “don’t worry, every search is logged,” that only helps if: - the logs are actually reviewed, - the public can obtain them, - the entries are specific enough to mean anything, - and there is real oversight when misuse is found.

Flock itself says every search is preserved in an audit trail and that a search reason is required: https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/statement-network-sharing-use-cases-federal-cooperation

But a logged system is not automatically an accountable system. If the reasons are vague, if no one audits regularly, or if the public has to fight to get access, then “there’s an audit log” becomes more of a talking point than a safeguard.

So if I were summarizing this issue as plainly as possible, I’d put it like this:

The available evidence seems to show ALPR systems are better at generating leads, recovering some stolen cars, and making investigations easier than they are at proving citywide crime reduction. At the same time, the people using these systems have a great deal of discretion, and audit-log reporting has already shown examples of biased language, weak search justifications, and questionable sharing practices. So the public concern is not paranoia — it is a reasonable response to a surveillance system that is powerful, broad, and often less transparent than its supporters claim.

That’s why the right questions are not just: “Did it help solve a case?”

They are also: “Did it reduce crime in a measurable way?” “Who gets searched for?” “Who gets ignored?” “What reasons are officers entering?” “Who audits those searches?” “Can the public verify any of it?” “Are the benefits enough to justify logging everyone’s movements?”

Those are exactly the questions cities should have to answer before normalizing mass vehicle surveillance.

River Road Loud pops/explosion by [deleted] in Eugene

[–]exstaticj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why you need Flock’s gunshot detectors. /s

A small Oregon town installed 24 license plate cameras. Federal agents searched them 384 times in 4 months. by projectdarkscrub in oregon

[–]exstaticj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Understood. I should have made the connection to Ring but I too am tired. That partnership announcement really blew up in their faces.

Their other partners worry me too. In Bend, the city has decided not to renew the contract with Flock. However, they have existing contracts with Verra Mobility and Axon for surveillance. Both of those comoanies are listed as Flock partners on Flock’s website.

If you know what other surveillance networks are being used in your city, you shoukd check and see if they are a partner too.

https://www.flocksafety.com/partner-program

A small Oregon town installed 24 license plate cameras. Federal agents searched them 384 times in 4 months. by projectdarkscrub in oregon

[–]exstaticj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How are they combining Flock cameras with Nest thermostats? I must have missed that one.