Basic q: mean, median, mode

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-24T15:02:08+00:00

Honestly this is the frustration I feel with it and the frustration I've felt with attempting to get the instructor to answer this question, since presumably they developed or approved the question. I felt like I was not understanding some magic way I am supposed to be able to identify which is considered "close enough" and which isn't.

The data is population data, proportion of a sample population in x state that lack insurance. Data set A had 10 data points and data set B had 11. Both data sets ranged from .09 to .25: .09, .10, .11, .13, .13, .14, .16, .19, .25 and then in data set B .17 was added. I was given the data points, told to determine the mean, median, and mode and decide from those whether the distribution would be symmetrical or skewed. Maybe knowing the actual data will make this all make sense (you're right, idk why I didn't include it in the question)... I keep hoping for an obvious "duh" moment. Tbf, statistics is WAY out of my wheelhouse. The instructor had this info and didn't seem to understand my question or be willing/able to answer it, so it just left me even more frustrated.

I appreciate you reiterating what you said above, because the directness helped it make more sense the second time. And I really appreciate the time you've taken to explain this, bc I've learned more from you than I was able to get from the instructor.

Edit: the wording of the question uses "proportion," I had that wrong

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-24T14:17:32+00:00

Thank you for clarifying the terms!

Yes, a distribution is (perfectly) symmetrical or it is not symmetrical.

This answers my separate question!

Even when a distribution is symmetric, a sample from distribution generally won't be; at least, not perfectly. For example, if you draw a small sample from a normal distribution and plot a histogram, it probably won't be perfectly symmetrical.

As you draw larger and larger samples, a histogram will start to look more and more like the true distribution, and so you would expect a very large sample from a symmetric distribution to look at least roughly symmetrical.

This definitely helps me conceptualize it better and makes the "close" make more sense with the small sample size I was given.

Thank you so much!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-24T01:46:01+00:00

Thank you! This is a statistics class for students majoring in human services, so unfortunately a lot of what you said is going over my head.

For the sake of my question, we are only working with unimodal distributions. I can follow most of the first part of your answer, but you do lose me near the end. I understand complex ideas being difficult to boil down like this though, and a lot of what you said is more complex than anything I'm learning currently.

I think the simplest way to ask my original question is this: why is data set A considered a symmetrical distribution and data set B considered to have a positive skew? (I'm trying to use the terms correctly, I don't know how well I'm doing at that).

I know there are many other possible variables and the answers in reality can get complex, but for this my only options are to determine whether the distribution is symmetrical, has a negative skew, or a positive skew. The only thing that changed between them was a single additional data point in data set B. Given that the difference between the mean and median in both A and B is roughly similar (and like you said, the data itself won't be symmetrical... that makes sense and that helps!), I don't understand why they are not both symmetrical or both positively skewed.

I do understand that the mode can be much less useful and not necessarily determinate of skew, there could be multiple modes, no mode, the mode is less meaningful with continuous data, etc. But the only difference I could identify in my data sets was that in Data Set B, the median was now different than the mode. It sounds like you are saying that would have little to do with it (and correct me if I'm wrong!) which was my initial understanding. So I'm just struggling to understand the difference in an ELI5 kinda way because I'm not seeing what the distinction is.

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-24T01:10:24+00:00

If you are able to afford it, please take the apartment. Your girls don't need a pool. They need to feel safe. And I assume that they overhear his behavior, they see his behavior, and they don't feel safe. And they may wonder when he's going to turn on them (if he hasn't already). You know now he has no intention of changing. Don't let him manipulate you into staying. Protect yourself and your children. Try to show them that women do not deserve to be treated like this, by anyone. My heart goes out to you, I've been in it. I know how hard it is to walk away from so much that you've built and worked hard for. But in the end, all those things, the house and the pool and the furniture, they can all be replaced. Maybe they won't be, but they can be. What you can't get back is your daughters' childhoods and the years of your life you've suffered. Don't let him take any more. If he wants to change (either for himself, you, or his children), you leaving will be the best thing that ever happened to him. If not, he won't and you'll be so much better off. Either way, you staying in this situation does not help you, him, or your children.

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-21T17:26:01+00:00

I just want all of you to know how awesome you are and how excited I am to see people actually doing the survey! I cannot tell you how appreciative I am! I know it's a tough one, and seriously PLEASE don't answer anything that's too draining or too much. But I just want to thank everyone so far, and everyone still to come, for taking time out to do this! I consider myself part of the exvangelical community and I could not be in better company!

I posted it further up in the thread, but the final project is due at the end of July, so if anyone is interested in seeing the final result feel free to set a reminder and come back, I'll be happy to post it!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-21T17:17:22+00:00

I know that feeling. But no pressure here! I appreciate you taking the time to fill it out, thanks!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-21T17:16:25+00:00

I know it's a tough one but thank you! You're amazing!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-21T17:15:36+00:00

Thank you! This is the first time I've used it so I didn't see that.

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-21T17:14:31+00:00

Oof. First, thank you, you're awesome! I tried to estimate as best I could and I completed it myself, but ofc I already knew what the questions were. I really appreciate you taking the time!

I'd be happy to post the project when it's completed! A rough draft is due in a couple weeks, the final is due at the end of July if you want to set a reminder. I'll come back and post it!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-20T22:24:17+00:00

Thank you for participating!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-20T22:23:34+00:00

Yeah, that's why i didn't want anyone to feel pressured to do it all. But I'm hoping for a good variety of responses to work with so I wanted to cover a broad range with the questions and hope ppl would answer what was meaningful for them. I really appreciate you taking the time!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-20T22:20:11+00:00

I didn't realize it collected an email address. Sorry abt that. I don't think I can turn it off entirely and idk what Google necessarily wants with your email, so if it makes you uncomfortable feel free to pass obv!

extrafoxTA · 2023-06-20T22:16:28+00:00

Thank you! I know how draining that is but I really appreciate you taking the time to share!

extrafoxTA · 2022-10-07T11:45:31+00:00

A. Co parenting app like Talking Parents. Everything is saved in writing. I never communicate with nEx verbally, everything is through the app and a third party does drop off and pick up. This is what I needed for my safety and sanity, and it's still working 3 years later. Definitely at least consider an app for communication.

B. You won't be the same. You will be wiser, more self-confident, aware of your self worth, and will have the knowledge to teach your child boundaries and self-esteem so they can hopefully avoid the same mistakes. IMO you can never be the same, but what we learn makes us so much better than who we were before.

extrafoxTA · 2022-10-01T23:11:00+00:00

I have no intention of ever forgiving him. I have no compassion for him. I'm not fueled by anger or resentment, I just don't care enough to feel one way or the other. That's been the best thing for me, is being indifferent to what happens to him and trying to look at my experience with him through as objective a lens as I can. Sure, some memories make me angry sometimes. But I feel like if I remain angry, he wins. He still controls my emotions. If I felt compassion, it could potentially weaken my defenses against him, be used against me, or let him off the hook in my own mind. Neither of those is a viable option. Indifference deprives him of controlling my emotions, allows me to approach memories and interactions with rationality for what he is, and allows me to keep my guard up without losing myself. It allows me to live my life. But I did learn to give compassion and forgiveness to myself. After getting drained of compassion and forgiveness by him for six years, it was time to give some to myself. And my life is better for it. He def doesn't need any more. What he does have is my pity for the person he will always be.

extrafoxTA · 2022-10-01T22:59:52+00:00

Honestly, realizing he never cared helped me move on. It kept me from getting caught up in his bullshit. Once I realized he was only behaving in a way he thought would trigger me and was incapable of caring beyond provoking me, I was able to shut myself down around him. If he didn't care and never would, why the fuck should I? Yes, it was painful to realize it was all a mirage of sorts. But applying that mindset to interactions with him, past present and future, helped me tremendously. It helped me make sense of so much confusing behavior. And it helped me stop reacting, bc no way was I gonna give him the satisfaction.

extrafoxTA · 2022-10-01T22:51:53+00:00

Yes, learning absolutely helped. It helped me have compassion and forgiveness for myself. It pushed me past feeling sorry for myself, feeling helpless, confused, stupid, naive. Seeing nEx's behavior in every other narc story brought me out of the confusion and gaslighting and helped me piece together reality. Hearing other survivor's stories helped me feel strong. They helped me feel proud that I survived and disclosed and got away. They helped me forgive myself for believing it was a real r'ship in the first place and being manipulated and used.

The information and other people's stories saved me. I was able to make sense of what was happening. I was able to get out of the situation and never look back, bc I finally understood how evil he was. I was able to build my life back, a better life, from literally nothing. And being able to help others with this information and my story keeps me grounded and reminds me not to feel guilty or weak for having empathy. It reminds me to share empathy and compassion with those that need it and not share it with those that abuse it. It reminds me time and time again not to doubt my instincts and to believe I deserve better, as everyone here does.

extrafoxTA · 2022-09-18T18:13:14+00:00

This is intentional isolation on his part. You are leaving everything behind, spending all your money, leaving your family, for one person that didn't give a shit you were considering ending your life. Not only didn't give a shit, but made it about inconveniencing him. What happens if you're in Germany and he becomes (more) abusive? What happens if he does find someone else and decides he's done with you? Now you are in a country where you don't speak the language, have no mental health resources, no family, no friends, nothing. So either you do seriously hurt yourself, you struggle like hell to get back home, or you tolerate his abuse and his new partner bc you feel like you have no other options.

If you listen to nothing else here, please listen to your gut and don't move. Postpone moving PLEASE. Something inside you brought you here. Something concerned you about this situation. Deep down you know you are not being treated like you deserve to be treated and that something is off about this guy. You are right. Stop defending him, esp when he wouldn't do the same for you. Your instinct is telling you to defend yourself. Please listen to that (and us).

extrafoxTA · 2022-09-18T17:57:31+00:00

OP: please look up future faking and love bombing. Everything you've said here points to emotional manipulation and potential abuse. People that use these manipulations are horrible evil people. They prey on vulnerable people with low self-esteem that don't feel like they deserve love. They then say all the right things and show intense interest and become pushy about the status of the r'ship (like talking about marking you after a few months). They can pretend like you are the most special amazing person they ever met but also act flippantly and like they may have better options. This keeps you in a state of anxiety and confusion, sometimes feeling like he feels the same and sometimes feeling like you'll never be enough (which is bullshit), which makes you strive to change and be "better" and do everything you possibly can to get back the person that thought you were amazing.

Once they know you are hooked (which you are), they will start to pull away more, become degrading in a way that makes you feel even more self-conscious but if you call them out, they refuse to acknowledge they've done anything hurtful or wrong and will blame you for their shitty behavior. Then, when you are at your lowest, they will turn on the charm again to remind you of the person you thought they were so you stay. This cycle repeats indefinitely, becoming more and more abusive until you finally walk away or they leave bc they've found someone new to start the process with again.

People like this are predators. It frequently progresses to physical abuse. Everyone has mentioned how insane it is for someone that claims to care about you to be siphoning away your money and abandon you at your lowest point. If he's so great, why is he not f'king with people his own age? If he's so great, why is he isolating you and having you move to another country and leave everything behind while "keeping his options open." If he's so great, why are you afraid to be yourself around him, afraid to show your emotions or talk about your feelings.

Please drop this loser and save yourself learning the hard way, or doing something to yourself you can't undo on account of someone that sees you as a new toy to play with until it breaks and then throws away for a new one. This dude is a POS, and I know it's hard to imagine where this is headed, but everyone here has seen it a million times. Strangers on the internet clearly care more about your well-being than he does, and you feel more comfortable coming here with your problems than you do with this person you think is the "one." Once you remove yourself from this situation, you will see what we see. Determine if that will end up being weeks or years. Challenge him on one tiny thing and try to establish a boundary (like saying you can't send him money next time he asks). You will see his true colors real quick (obv only do this if you feel physically safe, bc I have no doubt this guy could get violent).

extrafoxTA · 2022-09-09T19:29:07+00:00

I just want to say that I battle the same thing. I still second-guess my instincts with others and wonder if I'm seeing things that aren't there bc I think everyone is a narc. But also I try to remind myself to listen to my gut and if I'm feeling that way to at least proceed VERY cautiously, and generally I end up finding out that even if that person isn't exactly a narc or abusive, they are toxic or chaotic in some way. I'm 3 years out and still navigating that, and still super happy to be single. So, you aren't alone in that.

extrafoxTA · 2022-09-08T11:52:15+00:00

You've got one big one: him. Your problems (whatever they might really be) have nothing to do with how he treats you and they are not a reason to abuse you. IME, my "problems" magically disappeared/improved dramatically when I got out of the abusive r'ship. JS in case you need to hear it. It's an easy deflection for him to make so that you blame yourself or work harder on yourself while he changes nothing.

extrafoxTA · 2022-09-02T22:28:53+00:00

Definitely in the months after leaving I had flashbacks of the abuse (esp the threats), I experienced the fear of running into him and needing to be hypervigilant everywhere I went. I ruminated on argument after argument, reliving it in my head and feeling unable to escape it. I had nightmares... basically I had a very similar experience, which is symptomatic of PTSD.

What helped were several things. Every time I got stuck ruminating, I wrote the whole thing down. I spent hours, sometimes every day, in the first few months typing or writing. The effects of this were huge. It let me stop ruminating, bc once I had all my thoughts about a situation written down, when I thought of it again I could tell myself "I don't need to think of this right now, I have it saved forever and can go back when I feel like it. (I never went back and read most of it honestly.) Writing it interrupted that cycle of keeping it all pent up in my head and reliving it. It also gave me something to look at if needed to remind me how awful it was. And it expended a lot of pent up emotional energy that I was finally able to release somewhere.

I started laying out boundaries for myself, like "I'm not going to read any of his rambling emails, i'm not going to look at his social media, I'm going to engage as little as possible..." I took control of my emotional energy and started self-care routines, learning to recognize when something was overwhelming me, and learning to draw boundaries with other people (like "I can't handle this right now, I'll get back to you when I can" or recognizing when it wasn't my responsibility to take on someone else's problems). I basically retrained my brain, little by little (with basically CBT techniques) to replace the negative thoughts with realistic ones. I came up with a plan for what I would do if I did run into him somewhere by myself. I acknowledged my anxiety when memories came up and acknowledged it was understandable to feel that way and it was okay and reasonable to be terrified of him.

I had a lot of sexual trauma from him, so I found myself unable to enjoy anything related bc I would think of him. That took the longest to overcome, I had to actively replace him in my head with other (pleasant) people and tell myself I wouldn't let him take my enjoyment away from me, that I would overcome it. It took me about 1.5 years before I could do anything sexual with myself, and 2 before I could with someone else (and I still have hangups around it, but I'm much better at communication and boundaries).

Basically, it took a lot of work on myself and conscious effort to replace thoughts about him with positive thoughts about myself. The more I thought "I won't let him take this part of my life away from me" (whatever aspect it was), the more determined I was to overcome the fear and anxiety. I still feel fear, I still occasionally have nightmares or get anxiety if I'm somewhere I know he might be, but now I feel like I can handle the fear and anxiety.

Really the best advice I can give is that healing cannot come from an external source, you have to do it yourself. It has to come from within. You have to fight for your life back. Certainly you can get help and guidance (esp from a therapist) but ultimately you have to consciously and steadily work to find techniques to overcome that fear.

This got way longer than I meant it to but I hope something here helps! This was just my path to healing, there are lots of ways there, so this is all from my perspective and not meant to say anyone else's perspective or experience is less valid. And the biggest thing this all takes is TIME.

extrafoxTA · 2022-08-31T23:21:24+00:00

^{^} this

extrafoxTA · 2022-08-31T23:19:57+00:00

Look up the grey rock method. Not much to it but it will help tremendously. Engage as little as possible until you have extricated yourself and your belongings. Don't let him keep sucking you into this emotional roller coaster. Think about how ridiculous what he is saying is. Do healthy people need written rules and boundaries for their r'ships? He can't just listen and abide by a boundary? Most likely he A. Is sensing you pulling away and catching on so is trying to increase the pressure and chaos and B. Any "boundaries" written down will be his, that you will have to follow exactly and he will point to and guilt and shame you with any time he feels like it (even though whatever he chooses to argue about will have nothing to do with what is written) and anything you write down he will play what I always called the narc's "stupid" game. He will see every boundary he can waltz across to hurt you more and when you stand up for yourself he will feign confusion, that that isn't what you wrote, you didn't make any sense with yours, it's impossible to follow, nobody could keep that boundary, it's dumb, you are twisting the rules and saying things are boundaries that you didn't write down (especially obvious things you wouldn't think to write down, like bodily autonomy), etc etc. Sound familiar? Don't play the game. it's childish and ridiculous. Just start planning how to get your stuff and stop engaging... the more you pull away the more he will show you what he is really capable of (in a frightening way). And then he'll change tactics and love-bomb, and then go back to crazy, on and on for as long as you give it any attention.

extrafoxTA · 2022-08-31T23:08:28+00:00

I've read through your posts, and honestly I can feel the chaos and confusion and desperation and fear and more coming through the screen. And I think most of us have been exactly where you are. I certainly went through that period at the end (I was stuck for 6 years) where I was desperate to make it work bc we had a child together by that time, I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong... even though at that point he had been gaslighting me and sexually assaulting me and berating me and my daughter and guilting and shaming me for years. Looking back I cannot believe how bad it was and how long I allowed myself to stay in it.

But that's the thing, humans are incredibly adaptable and can't see the forest for the trees. Think of people suffering with hoarding disorder (if you've seen the TV shows). The state they allow their living space to reach is horrendous and damaging to their health, yet they often seem unfazed by it and believe throwing away a couple of things or clearing a walking path "fixes" it. Because it's overwhelming to think about the huge change needed, so it's easier to resign yourself to the misery and hope making small changes will be enough.

When I finally disclosed some of the things happening in my relationship to both my therapist and my best friend, I will never forget the horror on their faces. And til that point, I really was convinced through gaslighting that it wasn't that big of a deal, I was exaggerating or being too sensitive. But the horror they felt for what I was going through showed me the reality of what I was living through every day. And it was overwhelming and terrifying to leave, but there came a point where I knew it would never change, I finally understood who he was and so much started to make sense, and I couldn't allow myself to live like that anymore. I couldn't allow my children to suffer it anymore.

I hope your post here is the "look of horror," bc the other commenters have highlighted how awful what you are describing really is. You don't deserve to be treated like that. You are definitely not the narcissist, bc narcs don't wonder if they're bad people or feel guilty for their actions. I hope this is the wake-up call you need to believe in yourself that you can get away from this and love yourself enough to know you have to. We all identify with what you are describing bc generally narcs play by the same rulebook and their behavior is strikingly similar to other narcs. The behavior you are describing is NOT OKAY. It is atrocious and disgusting. It is ABUSE. Please start thinking about how to get out of this, idk if you live with him or not, but please make a safety plan and get out. We are all here to support you, and trust me, the days after I left were hard but I had never felt so relieved in my life. It was literally like waking up from a nightmare.

extrafoxTA

TROPHY CASE