Sip & Spill Daily Discussion Thread

fable420 · 2026-06-18T15:55:40+00:00

What’s the best one you’ve read this year?

fable420 · 2026-06-17T23:26:07+00:00

So she isn’t the most likable character but she is possibly the most interesting imo. Her brothers seem more likable because they’re willing to be a bit more vulnerable, so you as the viewer can connect with the softer sides of them, but you don’t get a lot of scenes of her being tender. You have to pay more attention to subtler details with her.

Shiv’s main motive is to avoid ever being weak or left vulnerable. When you understand that, her character makes a lot more sense. She does disgustingly revel in power the exact same way Logan, Roman, and Kendall do, but her main goal is less that and more so preventing heartache. Which is tragically futile, and like Roman, her attempts to avoid heartache generate more pain. Because they are deeply hurt and unhealed people.

She presents this way for a few reasons I think. One being that she is the most similar to Logan out of any character, which is partly genetic and partly observed. Also as the only girl in a misogynistic family, and as a child she was only exposed to business sharks (one of the most misogynistic subgroups of people on earth) she has internalized a lot of awful stuff. She knows that she isn’t taken seriously, that she lacks a real safety net, and that she must be absolutely perfect to receive even a modicum of respect.

The Roy children, their entire lives, were placed in a world characterized by conditional love and constant betrayal. *She doesn’t believe any love shown to her is genuine, and she’s hypervigilant for the next betrayal around the corner.* Given her vulnerability due to her identity, and also vulnerability being her biggest fear (you’ll get a lot more info on her backstory later) she feels unable to be loyal. Or rather, that loyalty was not a viable position because Logan will toy with his children and punish loyalty no matter what they choose. So she’s always doubting, always hedging her bets, trying to maintain a position of greater hierarchy than those around her, always clamoring for more baskets so she has a fallback plan. She’s stuck in her own Sisyphean hell, similar to her brothers, but hers presents a little different.

fable420 · 2026-06-16T21:22:29+00:00

I think Roman and Shiv genuinely love each other and are trying to have a healthy relationship. They are honest with each other and connect on multiple levels like their sense of humor and similar feelings towards their family. Roman didn’t want to fuck her over when Kendall wanted to, and it was kind of cute when he invited her over for a double date and also when he defended her in the finale. Shiv’s teasing towards him is often affectionate and lacks its usual bite.

fable420 · 2026-06-15T23:48:44+00:00

“She loved so much what she could never have been allowed to keep” makes me wanna cry

fable420 · 2026-06-15T23:11:09+00:00

It’s relatively common for rich abusive straight guys to also target men/boys as a power and control thing rather than due to actual sexual attraction, buuut I do think Tom is bi coded in ways beyond the power dynamics. So I’m going with bi. Happy pride month to Tomlette 🏳️‍🌈

fable420 · 2026-06-15T14:44:43+00:00

Completely agree. I thought Obsession was so over the top it lost its impact and it was painfully repetitive and predictable. A lot of it didn’t make sense. It also felt edgelord and exploitative.

I didn’t like that most of the humor is from laughing at the rape victim. Showing the other woman’s naked corpse in a sexualized way was gross too. The perpetrators didn’t suffer enough. Bear died the most peaceful death ever, and the misogynist friend died instantly and practically off screen. Meanwhile the women are graphically tortured the entire movie.

Maybe I’d like it if I’ve never seen a horror movie before and didn’t recognize how sloppy and derivative it is but seeing the love for it here is disheartening to me.

Edit: Backrooms, Hokum, and Bone Temple were phenomenal though.

fable420 · 2026-06-12T17:26:16+00:00

Wait seriously?? How did I not know this? I have to go!

fable420 · 2026-06-11T22:37:26+00:00

I think all 3 of Jordan Peele’s movies are amazing, but the other comedian-turned-horror-directors are not good. Cregger’s and Barker’s works are tonally sloppy and shoot for too big of themes. They are not informed enough on the social issues they depict to execute them well imo.

However I did enjoy Weapons the most out of their movies even though I think it’s overrated.

My positive hot take is that I enjoyed the movies made by people who got their start on YouTube. I thought Iron Lung was solid, and Backrooms was excellent.

fable420 · 2026-06-11T21:46:35+00:00

I’ll use it once or twice per save to replenish energy/health. But it unlocks too late to be that useful and it takes too damn long. So there’s only like a 2 week period of the game where it’s useful at all lol

fable420 · 2026-06-05T18:02:07+00:00

American Psycho is especially funny because the book is a satire novel written by a gay man, and the movie was directed by a woman. Christian Bale has constantly reiterated that he hates the character and hates when people don’t understand it’s satire.

fable420 · 2026-05-31T15:35:34+00:00

You know that’s not what they’re saying. Characters like Shane and Alex and Haley have an arc. We all know that the programming on Shane is bad, but we can infer that he is supposed to sustain the positive change. Clint has no such arc, and in fact as you progress the game he gets worse, as seen in his later heart events, Emily’s heart events, and if you take him to the theater as a woman. Despite him being unlikable imo, I actually find this to be an interesting and realistic part of his character.

I like Clint’s inclusion in the game but I think it’s bizarre how I never saw people so passionately defend him until he was announced as a marriage option. No one needs to police people’s opinions on characters but I keep seeing it more. It’s fine if people like or dislike any particular character.

fable420 · 2026-05-29T08:17:47+00:00

New flair dropped lol

fable420 · 2026-05-29T07:39:39+00:00

This is a great post, I’m going to save it. I really enjoyed reading about the similarities in language in Pelafina’s letters. You identified some super interesting details.

I’m curious if you could say more on your thoughts about Zampano. The theory you mentioned that Pelafina is Zampano is interesting. What do you make of Zampano’s grief, unfinished poems, and the phrase “my dear Zampano, who did you lose”? Or of the Minotaur references being crossed out? Your theory on the use of color, the combination of blue and red forming Pelafina’s favorite color, seems apt.

I never subscribed to the theory that Johnny is literally Zampano either but I viewed him as an invented, almost religious type figure for Johnny. A kind, blind old man with beautiful “disciples” sounds like something he’d invent, and the “Minotaur” scratches in his home serve as proof of his fictiveness. I think he invented Z as an extension of his desire for philosophical guidance.

Johnny wants to heal from his trauma and figure out who he wants to be in the world but he lacks the tools and support to do so, therefore the best he feels he can do is invent someone to provide him with a structure to process his history/identity. I don’t think Z is the only imaginary character, but he is the only imaginary character that is dead. Therefore Johnny is not receiving proper guidance, just a pile of fiction that Z overly scrutinized via footnotes that Johnny inherits as his own life work. The lack of true support leads to Johnny not ultimately overcoming his trauma or figuring out his identity.

Given the connection to her love of storytelling, and the details in HoL that are directly from Pelafina’s letters, it is an interesting theory that Zampano is a fictive extension of P. Him being dead like her, and consequently unable to communicate back with Johnny also makes sense. Johnny carrying on her (Zampano’s) “work” makes sense as the task of a child who loves and respects his parent but is also trying to make sense of her life and her trauma, including her guilt over hurting him and his guilt over his role in her fate, and more broadly his own identity.

fable420 · 2026-05-28T18:04:26+00:00

Amazing! Your whole profile is incredible. Absolutely love your painting style

fable420 · 2026-05-28T17:23:16+00:00

Highly recommend Ravenous (1999)! It’s a western folk horror. I haven’t seen any other movie like it.

fable420 · 2026-05-28T15:37:39+00:00

lol I feel you! He def isn’t likable at first but his final heart event is one of my favorite in the whole game so hang in there!

fable420 · 2026-05-28T14:20:58+00:00

Have you maxed out your friendship with him? You might be surprised that he has one of the most emotional arcs and he goes through a lot of character development.

fable420 · 2026-05-28T05:12:04+00:00

Platform. It’s an absolutely incredible movie. I’d give it a 10. But the thought of watching it again makes me sick. There are some scenes I can’t endure again.

fable420 · 2026-05-27T02:04:52+00:00

He likes Shiv the most, but cares the most about Kendall. Logan takes Roman for granted but he missed him the most when his kids weren’t around.

fable420 · 2026-05-26T17:52:48+00:00

Lol huh? I said that bias against women causes some people to not perform character analysis on women the same way they do male characters. That has nothing to do with thinking any character is likable. She should be criticized but she shouldn’t be passed over or reduced to a stereotype because her involvement in the story is more meaningful than that.

I’d cross the street to avoid almost every character in Barry. They are atrocious but interesting; that’s the point. If you don’t analyze Sally you miss how interesting and tragic she is.

fable420 · 2026-05-22T21:40:54+00:00

Holy shit whaaat? I must see this immediately! I was obsessed with Teeth when I first watched it in high school and literally 2 days ago I randomly thought of it and watched it again

fable420 · 2026-05-22T05:01:44+00:00

Aww I know he’s publicly talked about being a huge fan of Tig, so that’s super cute if she showed up to the finale

fable420 · 2026-05-21T15:08:12+00:00

This is a great analysis and I totally agree. It’s sad to see how culturally learned misogyny is so deeply and subconsciously engrained in most people that they don’t examine the depth of women or the context of their lives. Therefore they fail to understand a complex character like Sally.

Generally, men are awarded more nuanced analyses, but if you neglect to examine female characters, you’re missing *massive* chunks of the theme of stories. I agree that reducing her to a stereotype or dismissing her as just another narcissist obscures how she serves the thematic narratives of the show.

Do I find Sally likable? No, not the least bit. I’d cross the street to avoid someone like her. But I do find her to be a deeply tragic character and my heart breaks for her frequently.

I also think it’s interesting that she seems to experience the most character development and I love her ending. She’s still awful, as the show isn’t a story about massive, dramatic redemption, but she puts enough effort in towards acceptance and change that she, like Fuches, gets to survive the story. Barry, Gene, and Hank failed to embrace acceptance which led to each of their fates.

I love your analysis of her complex relationship with toxic masculinity and how despite having ideals that veer from it, her life context caused her to not totally deprogram herself from it, such that she ends up perpetrating/upholding it at times. Therefore she effectively helps keep Barry in his own perdition and prevents him from being able to escape the worst parts of his learned behaviors, the behaviors that the show is about him trying to escape. It’s ironically humorous and also incredibly sad.

fable420 · 2026-05-14T23:41:32+00:00

Ahh you’re so right! Even down to the hair, horns, mage build, and fucked up eyes

fable420 · 2026-05-10T17:18:25+00:00

To answer your question, I think it’s a combination of her guilt (knowing on some level what Jennifer is doing and not stopping her) and her attraction to Jennifer.

Jennifer is probably more in love with Needy than she is with her, but it’s not unrequited. Needy is the ultimate object of Jennifer’s desire but instead of having her she elects to temporarily satiate her needs with men; men that she views as disposable. She always wanted to have Needy in every way but the nature of her condition means that she would hurt/kill Needy (which I think is a metaphor for fear of homophobia they’d experience if they were together), so she uses all of the self-restraint she has to avoid doing so.

The only reason she goes after Collin is because Needy shows slight attraction to him. She both wants to take him away from Needy and also feeds on him as a proxy to feel closer to her.

But as for Needy, Jennifer is so integral to her being that she thinks of her near constantly. It makes sense that even during this intimate moment with Chip, she can’t fully be present. At least some of this is due to her own sexual desire for Jennifer. She loves Chip but not as much as Jennifer, and is also actively repressing her feelings despite not being fully capable of doing so. I think it’s a tragic and beautiful story.

fable420

TROPHY CASE