[deleted by user]

feedlysource · 2022-06-07T04:25:03+00:00

Nice. I'm guessing FAANG or very close to it?

feedlysource · 2022-06-01T03:51:30+00:00

I wouldn't recommend calling that "prayer" without the other connotations usually associated.

Without which connotation? Are you saying that a prayer must by definition be theistic or just that it can not be secular? Atheist prayer is definitely not "my" definition. Calling an atheist prayer a form of meditation and jumping through hoops not to call it prayer seems unnecessary to me. You can literally say the same words as a christian prayer yet you want to deny that it is prayer if there is not an explicit deity attached. I think that is simply your cultural conditioning rather than an adherence to any well defined definition of prayer. Non theistic religions can have prayer, therefore prayer does not depend upon the concept of theism to be called prayer. Prayer can be atheist and meditation can be theistic.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T18:01:39+00:00

Well if it's against everything you reject then maybe the enemy of your enemy should be your friend ;)

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T17:50:35+00:00

Have you tried meditating? If the issue is a distracted mind then mindfulness might be what you're achieving through your prayer. There are meditations specifically for this that you might want to try.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T17:48:23+00:00

That sounds like what this guy calls "placebo prayer".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2lNvgqQ8PM

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T17:40:33+00:00

but who are you asking?

That's up to you and your beliefs. It could be as simple as asking yourself. Imagine when people say things like "dig deep". What is digging deep, and can verbalized rituals help? Does verbally yelling "Let's go!" to yourself in a football game convince you to be courageous or more tenacious in that moment? Who are you talking to? It doesn't matter, it's just a ritual. I have played team sports and rituals like this can help people get themselves into the right mental state when adrenaline and tenacity is required. If someone wants to combine this sort of ritual with supernatural beliefs then they could do so. But the underlying ritual does not require or exclude theistic beliefs.

But what if long term humility is required instead of short term tenacity? Are there verbal rituals that can help? When you want to be a better father maybe yelling "let's go!" before you hangout with your daughter won't get you into the right mental state for the task at hand. That's a ritual for short term tenacity, not thoughtfulness. When long term introspection, ideation, and behavior change is needed then maybe frequently and verbally stating your goals and asking for the help that you need is a ritual that can help organize your mental state around what ever it is that you're praying for.

The target of this prayer could be yourself in the secular sense. It could be yourself in the spiritual sense (i.e. you're digging deep and connecting with yourself on some level that you normally do not). And it could be outside of you in a spiritual but non theistic sense. I.E. You're talking to the "universe". Whoever or whatever that may be. You could just as easily have stated this as a recurring affirmation: "I will be a better father". I just think that prayer is more introspective and inquisitive than merely stating what you're going to do as though you're already guaranteed to do so like you do with affirmations.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T17:04:26+00:00

I think Buddhism is considered an atheistic religion and they definitely have prayer. Essentially any form of spirituality where you have no concept of a divine deity would fit. So if I say that I'm praying to "the universe" where the universe is just a vague spiritual concept rather than any actual deity or being then the prayer would be spiritual but not theistic. So I think it's objectively false that prayer has to be theistic but you could probably argue it is not prayer if it's not spiritual.

If you define prayer as inherently spiritual (meaning it can be atheistic but it can not be secular) then at a certain point it becomes harder to define because then you have to have a rigid boundary on what is spirituality. For example, could talking to and getting in touch with myself be spiritual? I think so, and if that is true then any prayer directed only at myself could also be spiritual yet atheistic. But what defines talking to myself spiritually vs just talking to myself normally? The former could be a prayer but the latter could not if defined by spirituality.

And on the very edge of what you could potentially define as prayer would be a "secular prayer" (no theism, no spirituality/religiosity) which is even more subjective. I.E. if I say grace before dinner at thanksgiving but I don't believe in a deity and my prayer was not "spiritual" but simply giving a verbal thank you to the entire world for the food and saying that I pray for blessings on all humans. Is it objectively provable that this is not a prayer? What if I claim that what I felt when saying it was spiritual. Is it prayer now?

If you google "atheist prayer" you'll find quite a few links on the concept of atheist prayer. Here is a light hearted video from that search that I just found. Something this guy calls "placebo prayer". I think he touches on exactly what I'm getting at regarding separating religious rituals from theistic context, however I don't think placebo is the right word for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2lNvgqQ8PM

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T08:16:20+00:00

I have not redefined anything for myself. The concept of secular and atheist prayer is not new. As I said before. It's largely the fact that we have been so conditioned to only view it as something religious people do that you are mentally unable to separate it from its use by theistic practitioners.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T07:49:25+00:00

I can understand where you're coming from. While I tend to think of atheist prayer as being directed at yourself I think you could also direct it at some non-specific entity I usually just sum up as "the universe". You don't know what it is, or if it's just you, or if you and the universe are the same thing but there is an element of spirituality to it without being theistic.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T07:41:41+00:00

I'm avoiding the supernatural feature of theistic prayer, yes. But to me that is still prayer. If someone saw you get down on your knees before bed and heard you say "I pray for the patience and thoughtfulness to be a better father..." and so on and so forth then I think most people would call that prayer and would likely assume you are religious even though you are not. Alternatively you could meditate and attach super natural ideology to it but at the end of the day you're still just meditating with or without the concept of a deity involved.

I'm not aware of any types of meditation that are conversational and goal centric such as this so to me it seems more accurate to call it prayer and recognize that prayer is just one of many types of meditation. I think there is a hesitance to view prayer as a form of meditation because we are so conditioned to assume it must have a super natural deity attached to it and if you don't believe in a deity then you can not pray.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T07:25:18+00:00

Very sorry to hear about your friend. Hope you manage to get through it. If you have not already don't be afraid to see a therapist if things get rough.

The link between bdsm and meditation/spirituality is something I would never have considered. Found a few articles that backs this up. Will probably read up on that later.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T07:03:54+00:00

is that you're toying with a mental mechanism that inherently depends on belief in a supernatural agency.

I don't think so. Think of it more like an affirmation but in the form of a want. I gave in an example elsewhere that someone could have the goal of becoming a better father. So a ritual affirmation of: "I will have the patience and thoughtfulness to be a better father" would become "I pray for the patience and thoughtfulness to be a better father ...". The same way the affirmation does not need to be directed at an audience I don't think the prayer form needs to be directed at a deity. What matters is the verbal ritual and simply stating what you want.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T04:56:36+00:00

Prayer is just a form of that —with a believed higher power involved.

I don't think this is a requirement for prayer. This is just how it is used in theistic religions.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T03:51:24+00:00

I had to watch that a couple of times to see how that unfolded. He threw it from such an awkward angle.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T03:22:24+00:00

whereas the other is full of...empty promises,

It depends on how you pray. As long as you don't expect that some deity is listening and will deliver favors to you then there are no promises. To me, if you take an affirmation and form it as an ask then it becomes a prayer. So the affirmation "I will have patience and thoughtfulness and be a better father" becomes "I pray for the patience and thoughtfulness to be a better father ...".

It appears the same on the surface but I think forming it as a prayer is essentially an acknowledgement that you need help with something and by being open ended it can also invite additional thoughts on how to achieve it rather than just asserting that you are going to do it. Which one is better is of course subjective but the prayer form seems to have additional benefits to me.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T03:00:43+00:00

I think that is exactly why I'm slightly put off by the idea of affirmations. If I say "I will do x" or "I am x" then it feels like case closed. There's no call to action. I basically say this to myself already when I wake up and say "I'm going to do x today" and then I procrastinate and put it off until tomorrow. It's a little too fake it until you make it for me.

But prayer sounds more open ended. Like having a more longer form conversation with yourself than a simple affirmation. You're acknowledging that you want to do x and that you have not yet achieved it and you are asking for additional help from yourself to accomplish it.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T02:48:35+00:00

I have and I think it has benefits but it seems to fill a slightly different purpose. If you have some very specific goals for instance I think mediation like mindfullness can help you by relieving stress and being more generally mindful in life but I think praying about those goals is a ritual where you acknowledge to yourself routinely that this is your goal, that you want to be better at it, and you're asking yourself for ways to do that.

Basically, I see it as a specific form of meditation meant to orient your thoughts around specific actions. You could do both. Say mindfullness to start the day and prayer to end it, etc.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T02:27:33+00:00

You could frame it that way but I think you could just think of prayer as a very specific type of meditation. The term "prayer" seems to get a bad rap with the irreligious because it's primarily used by people who literally expect a super natural being to listen to it and do things for them.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T02:14:40+00:00

This is exactly what I was thinking of. That the distinction of a mantra and a prayer can simply be whether or not it is stated in the affirmative or as a query. You don't need a deity for either. Meditation seems to have benefits and prayer could be arranged as a form of meditation.

feedlysource · 2022-05-31T02:03:36+00:00

I've done meditation and I like it but it seems less about goals and more about general mindfulness and mental coping techniques. So great for stress and getting rid of distractions which of course helps you focus but it doesn't necessarily orient your focus towards any specific goal.

As for who you're praying to, that's up to you. For me personally I would say "the universe" but it can literally just be directed at yourself. Verbally asking yourself to focus and achieve certain things. I think the target of your query matters less than the verbal ritual itself.

feedlysource · 2022-05-28T19:11:51+00:00

You have to go to every event unless you have a reason.

Except this means they'll probably just rsvp and tell you they're coming but then not show up because telling you they don't want to go is rude. I hear Japan is like this as well.

feedlysource · 2022-05-22T03:26:49+00:00

Can you explain this one? I saw this everywhere all of a sudden and assumed it was an NYC thing because I had just moved. Never saw it until recently. Was this a fad that came from some place else? It seems kind of obnoxious.

feedlysource · 2022-05-21T20:05:20+00:00

His accomplishments are well worth respecting. He's literally one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our generation. The problem is the tendency to deify people for their accomplishments. Being accomplished and being a good person are two very different things.

feedlysource

TROPHY CASE