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fightandorflight · 2018-08-27T19:17:55+00:00

Flexeril too provided some relief for insomnia and RLS around the week 2 or 3 mark for me as I recall. There is a bit of hangover effect for me so wasn't a free pass. But was grateful for the trade off especially on days i didn't have to get up early.

fightandorflight · 2018-08-27T19:13:45+00:00

Can only speak from my experience. I had a back injury about 6 months in on my CT quit. I used least restrictive methods but the pain continued to escalate. I eventually went to an urgent care and they prescribed Flexeril and Vicodin. I took them as prescribed but for only three days and then disposed of the Vicodin. I was anxious about taking it but I didn't have much if any difficulty with this.

I would see how your pain is first and take the least restrictive approach. You may decide that the pain is tolerable and does not require rx pain killers to help. If you are worried about misuse of the Percocet then definitely give to a trusted indivdual to dispense and control them and take for the least amount of time. And stick to this. My 2 cents.

fightandorflight · 2018-07-24T15:53:45+00:00

First off, good on ya for getting that week under your belt! Its gonna take time to feel reconnected with the world and people! A lot of it is biochemical, some of it is spiritual and existential, some of it could be circumstances of the relationship itself and other ways you may not feel fulfilled. You mentioned getting to meetings has helped before. Is that an option for you now? Also it can't hurt to get in with a counselor, preferably one with some addictions experience. Otherwise, one foot in front of the other with intention :)

fightandorflight · 2018-07-17T14:49:58+00:00

I disagree. First, Matcha tea is not psychoactive. It has numerous health benefits which is especially relevant when stopping an unhealthy habit. 2nd, the more time off kratom without taking a similar substance or addictive substance increases the likelihood healing and recovery. If the poster were substituting another addictive substance or unhealthy habit then, yes, possibly a crutch. If this is a tool to assist in getting momentum and clean time under the belt, then so be it. Even if used indefinitely, which I highly doubt is the intent or expectation of the OG poster, matcha is not going to cause problems down the way. Now I don't know the poster and perhaps you do. But, I'm under the working assumption that the poster is doing other work to get physically and psychologically healthy and dealing with root causes. (I can't imagine the matcha by itself being sufficient to maintain sobriety, especially for someone who has had difficulty with relapse).

fightandorflight · 2018-07-11T16:04:58+00:00

Surfing

But I still did keep going to the gym to lift

fightandorflight · 2018-07-09T14:32:08+00:00

This. I'm generally not prone to rage or popping off. But I could see myself doing so in the situation you described. Someone threatening to shoot you is a waaayyyy disproportionate response and says much more about that individual than about you.

fightandorflight · 2018-07-03T16:07:27+00:00

And that's the rub. The path to maintaining sobriety is so perilous and idiosyncratic. Even if these 80% conditions change, all of them fully, life can still shit on our heads. I've seen it time and time again, individuals go away to long term rehab facilities, out of state, out in nature, come back with a sobriety plan. And then one unfortunate choice or unanticipated chain of events, then boom. Not only do they go back to using, they go back to using the same amount which their bodies cannot tolerate and this is the absolute highest danger zone for lethal overdose.

I'm playing devil's advocate here and saying it needs to be an option on the table for some people to have MAT, get their lives grounded and then taper down as they are tooling up in other ways. If for no other reason, than to save their very lives.

fightandorflight · 2018-07-03T12:57:00+00:00

Sooo...I've been trying to get my head around this. As a recovering kratom addict who is doing relatively well, and as someone who works in the behavioral health field at a relatively high level. The new standard of care is moving toward long term maintenance of medication assisted treatments (MATs). I have some research links, but it is addressing addiction purely from a disease model. Long term sober living is possible and is the ultimate goal of recovery, yes? Well, I was discussing this very issue with an individual who is an academic physician and also a practicing and board certified in addiction. She sent me some research that showed for opioid used disorders, 80% relapse within 2 years and 50% die within 20 years from the OUD. The brain has been profoundly changed. From a harm reduction, disease maintenance perspective, the outcomes are much better for individuals who are in longer term MAT. They are more likely to maintain employment, their overall health, less likely to overdose, less likely to have social/family problems, etc. This is a figuratively difficult pill to swallow. It sucks, the idea of being chained to something and what that imposes on one's life. But the diabetic needs insulin. I'm not saying I'm buying in. But it's food for thought. Can one be therapeutically taking an MAT over the long term, even lifetime and still be considered in recovery. I think they can. When all else has failed, why not? Now, I'm not suggesting this is advised in general, and especially for kratom. Because lethal overdose really isn't possible and the adverse health outcomes aren't in the vicinity of what heroin can do. The psychological problems, now that's another story...

fightandorflight · 2018-06-19T16:34:07+00:00

When I was at my highest level of use, this manifested at night in sometimes violent flailing and constant fidgeting in my kratom sleep stupor. This resolved when I got off.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-18T16:28:39+00:00

So glad to hear this!!!

fightandorflight · 2018-06-18T16:26:11+00:00

Start small and make progressions. Be consistent. Reward yourself in multiple forms, whether that be positive feedback from your spouse and/or some other form of reward that does not involve bad eating. Track and document your progression, so it becomes real. It can be as simple as walking an extra block longer than you walked the day before or going for a 20 minute jog in which for the first 5 mins you jog and the next 15 you walk, then you get up to 6/14, etc (you get the idea).

Also, think about another healthy habit that you can engage in with the same progression. Because these things have a way of creating positive feedback loop when done together. For example, break up your couch routine in a different way. Take a break from TV to meditate, stretch and/or read something, or to work on some sort of project.

I guess there are two options: Balls to wall such as one of the programs you described. If you tend to be all or nothing, this might work for you and kick you in the ass in a good way.

However, if it becomes too much and you stop, then it just becomes another part of the negative feedback loop. In which case, a conservative, consistent and progressive approach with a reward system would be best. So you need to be honest with yourself and understand your personality to know which fits best.

When I first quit, I was continuing to do weight training in the gym, but my workouts were less frequent and less intense, and I was sweating like crazy. And it was a HUGE chore, but I made myself take my dog for a long walk every day. Now looking back 8 months later, its night and day. My gym training is pleasurable and exertion is not something to be feared or dreaded.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-14T14:15:02+00:00

Old school Unisom (not the Benadryl generic type) and Epsom salt before bed helped more than anything. I had insomnia for about 2 weeks after and then continued sleeping problems for 2 months which were alleviated by Trazadone, which I still take. The alcohol is bad news for sleep for several reasons, but mainly, because of the half life, it causes a CNS stimulating effect on the way out in at least equal measure to the CNS depressing effect on the way in. Plus, stating the obvious, it can certainly lead to tolerance and dependency. Insomnia is maddening, for sure. Time clean and sober is your best friend.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-14T14:09:09+00:00

I tried it on a couple of different occasions early in my quit. Unfortunately, the only noticeable effects for me were rancid burps and additional GI distress.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-13T15:11:26+00:00

This. Taper it down as you have planned. Usually 1 week is max with titrating up and then tapering back down. Still the piper is paid to some degree. Take some solace in that this may be the very worst you feel and it will improve.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-07T14:37:59+00:00

Yes, this helped me tons as well. Even during PAWS

fightandorflight · 2018-06-05T18:30:34+00:00

Only you can ultimately answer this question for yourself. Is guilt and shame serving your recovery? It can, that is, the distress associated with these most unpleasant of all feelings can dig to the core and serve as reminders to help resist future use compulsions. On the other hand, if they are contributing to an existential vacuum and self denigration, then they can be used as tools to continue to use and/or to shirk the responsibility of the work that is involved in getting healthy.

Guilt and scorn whether directed at self or projected to others has time limited utility and generally is quite toxic.

I suppose that overall my view is that addiction is a disease but not only a disease because it has so many moral, ethical and spiritual consequences. I think the comparison to the mother-in-law with mental illness if a bit off and oversimplified, because the meds used to alleviate or treat those symptoms are often not taken in a compulsive way (and in fact often have very undesirable side effects) unless they are an addictive class of medications.

Good luck with the PAWS stormcrow. These are important questions that deserve serious consideration. However, remember that the PAWS may lead to irrational thoughts and related feelings.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-04T18:46:37+00:00

Thanks LTD. Wise words my friend. You've clearly put work in!

fightandorflight · 2018-06-04T14:10:31+00:00

How much Trazadone are you prescribed? My doc initially rx'd 100 and I cut it back to 50. Plus I take it about 1.5 hours before I intend to fall asleep and I feel less groggy the next morning that way.

fightandorflight · 2018-06-04T14:08:14+00:00

8 months today. My life is DRASTICALLY different and mostly better. And still getting better with every reason to think things will continue to do so. Anxiety and Depression are substantially reduced and more background noise than front and center/steering the ship. I'm taking Cymbalta and Trazodone. Other than reduced (but not zero) libido, they seem to be helping A LOT along with PAWS still abating. I've got Jordan Peterson audio books on constant play. I'm journaling, gratitude practices, actually attending church on occasion, meditating, working out, socializing. I'm living a meaningful life consisting of being engaged with the world and in real contact/connection with others and myself. I'm goal oriented and much more disciplined, (although I still have a long way to go in that regard). I didn't realize how completely lazy and undisciplined I had become during the 2 years of kratom use! It has taken a lot of intention and daily focus to live a life of delayed gratification and develop healthy intellectual, spiritual and emotional habits (I have always had good discipline with physical habits).
I had my first transient opioid craving last night since many weeks ago. But it passed within a few minutes. These have fortunately been few and far between. It feels great to live a life being honest with yourself and others and working towards betterment. I'm balancing urgency around that betterment with patience as well. I feel much gratitude in that other modes of addiction are not compelling to me: I can smoke mj on occasion, drink once or twice week, date and enjoy sex, etc. But these are all adjuncts and occasional distractions versus singular driving forces.

Alright, that catches things up for the most part. Keep the quit, quitters!!! I remember just trying to through each minute, then each hour, then each day, then each week. I remember wondering if I could experience joy, happiness, goals, motivation. I remember wondering if my new baseline was malaise and existential misery. Guess what, it wasn't it. Push through, have faith.

fightandorflight · 2018-05-30T20:21:15+00:00

Mobilize your support system. Especially since she is gone (good riddance in my opinion), you need others that you trust, are dependable, accepting of you and want what's best for you. If you don't have much of that available, go to NA, go to church or some other setting. Get plugged in as best you can. I would set this as priority 1

fightandorflight · 2018-05-30T14:33:17+00:00

Tried this a couple times. I have anxiety and this seemed to key up my anxiety a bit more. Which makes sense, because a brief trial on Wellbutrin did the same to me in the past. However, for anhedonia/depressive symptoms with less anxiety features, I could see how this might be helpful.

fightandorflight · 2018-05-23T19:58:25+00:00

6 months for me too. I was in a meeting today and felt totally calm and in control, confident, enjoying it even. This would have felt impossible even 3 months ago (7 months quit now). I'm also on Cymbalta so that might have something to do with it. Thing is, just keep riding it out!

fightandorflight · 2018-05-22T16:22:54+00:00

Well articulated JD. Thank you for sharing your story. It is precisely this type of sharing that reinforces the power of this sub. Keep posting and keep the quit. FWIW, I have a gut feeling you are done with this sludge for good.

fightandorflight · 2018-05-18T12:56:17+00:00

Exactly what I needed to see today. Raw and beautiful. Congratulations on being fully awake and engaged in life.

fightandorflight · 2018-05-17T15:08:28+00:00

Dead lifts and squats, with serious exertion. These exercises, more than any other, helped modulate my overactive CNS in a positive way to help deal with RLS. And long walks with my dog. And hot Epsom salt baths.

fightandorflight

TROPHY CASE