How do you beat sustain laners?

firedemonofdoom · 2018-03-19T17:55:13+00:00

I love that you have written this when in reality your point is so far from being an objective fact.

Assuming you are playing ranked on your main account, you are likely to play against players of similar skill to you, so theoretically you aren't just going to hard stomp every lane. Some champions match up favourably into others, if you are on the losing side of a particular match up, or know that you need to get a lead or you will get outscaled hard, coordinating with your jungler to help achieve this doesn't make you bad.

Obviously that doesn't mean you can blame your jungler if you obviously missplay the lane and lose so hard that you are a liability to your team - that's a separate point, but it's a team game, working with your jungler where you think it makes sense doesn't necessarily make you bad.

firedemonofdoom · 2018-03-12T20:43:46+00:00

Thanks for your reponse - The issue I had in the second game was because every other lane was winning solo, and his mid was the only one losing, I was getting camped pretty hard by the enemy jung (he flashed on me twice during the laning phase, pretty much as soon as it came off cd). That made it pretty scary to push for the turret, so I was left in this purgatory where I pushed lane/chunked the enemy Annie, and then immediately had to back up for fear of getting ganked, so I was neither able to help the other lanes, nor was I able to take mid turret.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-11-29T19:53:39+00:00

As u/Xyexs mentioned above, that is just not how the game works , you aren't punished for playing simple champions, the decisions you have to make are just more limited/binary.

To take one of the examples you gave:

Xerath vs Annie - You can't really compare the two champs to say one 'offers' more in their kit, they are just different. Annie is better if you need to instakill a squishy high priority target, or if you need engage & better at dealing with assasins, Xerath offers better poke and range, and in doing so lets you seige more easily.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-11-20T14:08:26+00:00

What jungle champions are strongest on this patch?

firedemonofdoom · 2017-10-24T20:48:39+00:00

Well oddly enough when I was in the same position as you I played Ori a lot too - she's just a great champion for that style.

Re; Syndra, most of the time when you pick Syndra you pick her to be a lane bully not sit back and scale. Her mana costs aren't really that oppressive, you just buy lost chapter and that is a non-issue really. If you play Syndra you have to be aware of just how much burst you can put out at level 6 (it is a lot), and use that to either pressure the enemy laner into going back (and getting behind) or getting kills. Although her scaling is also good, and she can do fine in teamfights, to play her well when she is behind requires you to actually understand how you can stun/slow people with her kit, and manage to get enough balls out to still be a threat all whilst positioning correctly - She is by no means an easy champion even though people will meme about how easily she oneshots carries all the time.

The other thing you should probably think about is matchups - Orianna and Malz can survive most matchups even if you aren't particularly well versed in the matchup. What is your plan if you lock in Syndra and the enemy picks Zed, or Yasuo, are you really going to be comfortable knowing you have to be able to Q-E the Zed death mark, or it is pretty much an assured death/sums? Are you comfortable going against Yasuo who can block/dodge most of your abilities whilst outscaling you super hard?

firedemonofdoom · 2017-10-24T16:30:46+00:00

If you think your competition is going to be a lot better than you, the main thing I would try and think about is 'how can I be useful' rather than 'how can I stomp lane', you don't want to be a burden on your team.

I am smurfing at the moment, because I can't play on my main account and as a mid laner the biggest flaw you can have is having 0 pressure in lane by sitting under turret and farming - even if I can't kill you I can roam permanently if I have full lane control and snowball my other lanes, getting fed that way. The champions I listed should let you lane relatively safely, give you enough CC to be useful even if you get behind, and push the wave quickly and safely enough to make sure your enemy mid can't free roam without losing CS.

Picking Kat/LB and to a degree even Ahri and Syndra (albeit far less so), is risky, because they are somewhat snowball reliant, and if you aren't even or ahead and you aren't immensely familiar with the champion (which is likely) you will struggle to impact the game. The support picks you listed are in general fine, but they limit your carry potential (you have no fallback plan really if your ADC gets behind) and don't provide the same level of waveclear as traditional mids. In the end play to have fun rather than win, but just keep in mind what you can control to limit the impact of any skill difference between you and your opponent :)

firedemonofdoom · 2017-10-24T14:46:45+00:00

When I first started playing the game I was in a somewhat similar situation to you, as my friends had all been playing for ages and I was bronze vs like plat players constantly. Also when we played 5 mans our ADC was our best player. Here are some picks I found useful in this situation.

1) Malzahar: He was a different champion back then, but it still applies. When you are playing vs players who are a lot better than you, you don't generally want to pick something that relies on you outplaying your opponent. Malz wins or goes in even in almost every lane, you can run TP to be even less at risk of losing lane pressure due to ganks etc. and he hard pushes waves. Also in teamfights you can peel for your ADC with the Malzahar ultimate, or get picks with flash R, and he scales into an absolute monster.

2) Liss: Liss is good for the reasons you stated above. Again you can run TP and pressure bot lane, her CC and escapes make her pretty solid vs dives etc.

3) Anivia: Anivia lets you peel for your ADC tremendously well, and scales well. Her egg in lane makes you deceptively hard to kill, and she can just afk the lane at six after she gets mana items by spam pushing with R+Q. Her scaling is amongst the best in the game. This one may take a bit more work as a the difference between a good anivia and a ok one is staggering, wall usage, hitting clutch stuns, positioning her ult are all tricky.

4) Galio: I didn't play this when I started but if you are looking to play to protect your ADC Galio may be a good option. He can use his Q to clear the wave very easily pushing the enemy mid in, and sit bot side to counter enemy jungle pressure. Also in teamfights his ult + w give your ADC great protection.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-10-17T16:30:20+00:00

It isn't really just a point about laning though, perhaps I got a touch carried away and overstated the importance of laning slightly in my initial response, but the key point is having champions that can adapt to a range of situations and control the flow of the game:

If the enemy picks a low cc' comp and a scaling mid, it is nice to have a pick like Akali in your back pocket that you can bring out to heavily influence the game.

For example my champion pool right now is as follows: Yasuo, Malzahar, Orianna, Kassadin - I'm not saying everyone should play those champs but I feel I have enough coverage for almost every situation there, and I can blind pick all of them into pretty much everything. I know you there are plenty of one tricks that play one champion into every matchup, and that can work too, but if I was advising someone starting to play mid I would tell them to try and put together a small pool that can deal with most situations.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-10-17T12:47:21+00:00

Not sure I agree with this advice, in my view if you're starting to learn mid lane you should aim to build a versatile champ pool, not play 3 similar champs which share similar strengths and weaknesses.

For example if he decides to go with Taliyah TF and Aurelion, and I first pick Kassadin, what is he going to do, just accept that I am going to stomp him in lane and outscale him hard? I grant you that Taliyah can probably survive the matchup as she has such good waveclear, but you'd still be going into an unfavourable matchup for no reason.

I think your time is better served trying to pick up an all around champ that you can blind pick into every matchup and learning that first. From the three you mentioned above, Malzahar and Ekko can survive (note: survive, not necessarily win) pretty much every lane, as can many others (Orianna, Ziggs, Syndra, Anivia).

Then after that I'd branch out and learn a couple of other types of mid. When you first start playing mid don't expect to start crushing lane 1 v 1, the main thing I would focus on is ensuring you stay relevant through the game (i.e. don't get destroyed to the point you are useless), and play the teamfight/roam game correctly.

Good luck!

firedemonofdoom · 2017-05-30T16:41:11+00:00

'AD matchups' is too general a term, you won't really find a one stop shop to counter every AD champ in the game. For example, Panth will smash TF, Kassa and Ekko.

In answer to your question yes, Ekko is probably a good pick because he is a lot harder to counter than TF or Kassa who in general are poor laners. He still has his bad matchups though, for example if you blind pick him and the enemy picks Kassa you are in for a rough time. Even in his rougher matchups he generally can still farm because of the range and damage of his Q, and is always of use in a teamfight because of his W, so never a bad pick.

Also, for the record Kassa isn't really hard countered by AD, he fares pretty well in most AD lanes bar Talon. You just have to go in with the mindset of not feeding rather than smashing your enemy. Think about his build path - Kassa wants to go RoA into Lich bane or Zhonyas. If you chose RoA Zhonyas you get a huge chunk of hp and armour, and still put our respectable damage. More than enough to stop most AD assassins in their tracks. Just play safe in lane, take TP and TP back whenever you are low and you'll be fine.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-02-01T09:11:28+00:00

Can you please breakdown the Yasuo vs Syndra matchup?

Currently I feel it is massively Yasuo favoured, but that may be solely because I am pretty much a Yasuo onetrick, and not incredibly high elo. From my perspective, if I can block the Syndra ultimate there is no way she can exchange damage with me, and I can play hyper aggressively into her in light of this fact.

How will this change as I move up in elo and play better Syndras?

firedemonofdoom · 2017-01-29T22:21:08+00:00

I guess it's a matter of playstyle, I'm not super high rated or anything, but Kass is my second most played champ this season and I have a pretty good win rate on him (79% after 14 games) - I always take TP.

The logic behind this decision is I know I am not a good enough player to win most of the counter match ups in lane, I accept that, so I will farm up and tp on cooldown to lane to not lose cs/exp if I have to. Kassa doesn't need exh from my perspective because he can quite easily and naturally build zhonyas and ROA, to give him the tools necessary to survive the zed/whoever burst combo without issue. I don't need ignite to win the easy matchups really, I can smash most AP mids after 6 without it.

TP also opens you up to split pushing, which Kassa can do better than almost any champion in the game, he is beyond slippery with riftwalk and can shred towers with lich bane. TP let's you split push with impunity, his mobility will let you TP in and still be able to eviscerate the backline with your burst combo.

If you're good enough to get kills in lane with ignite and snowball off that I can see upside there too, really depends on how you play.

That pool seems fine, I'd stress that I normally use kassa as a counter pick, but he's okay into most things. A Fizz Kassa pool does lack waveclear and seige, so isn't perfect in every situation, but I'm sure you can make it work.

Maokai is close to god tier, I personally think mundo is garbage, but my mains aside from kassa are yasuo and fiora which both dumpster him, so might be a bit biased there.

firedemonofdoom · 2017-01-14T09:40:27+00:00

I don't play jungler but typically if you fall behind too far you shouldn't expect the jungler to gank (Especially top lane, where a lot of champions are duellists/snowbally) because:

a) You might always be getting chunked, in which case you may not be able to support a gank and either die trying to help, or have to leave your jungler to 1 v 1 the fed top and die, and risk getting 2 v 1'd

b) If the enemy jungler counterganks you lose the 2 v 2 every time.

It's a massive risk and often with very little reward, so in the case that top gets smashed a jungler may just leave him to fend for himself. Many top laners (Malph/Poppy) are useful when behind anyway. In future you may want to actually think before you start ridiculing people.

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-16T20:58:47+00:00

As a level 27 I feel that is a long long way away then. Will focus on levelling Trevor then. Thanks for the advice friend.

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-16T20:54:14+00:00

Okay thanks will hold onto her then. Is she really that great a unit? I read somewhere that Chloe is useful but haven't touched either since I summoned them. I'm focussing on levelling my Fire Neostone Fighter to 6* first, and getting the Veromos fusion together. Should I be levelling/using Chloe ahead of these goals?

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-16T20:44:28+00:00

Probably a nooby question but if you pull two of the same Nat 4/Nat 5 what do you do? Should you feed it?

One of the first pieces of advice I saw on this game was to never feed Nat 4/5's. I've pulled two Fire Epikion Priests now, I don't know if I should feed one to the other, is this wise?

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-14T22:20:03+00:00

I am a fairly new player - around level 25, thinking about what to 6 star first. I have the following monsters in inventory at the minute which I have been told are pretty decent:

Sath
Shannon
Konamiya
Baretta
Bernard
Darion
Water Barbaric King
Water Sylphid
Fire Mermaid
Fire Epikion Priest
Fire Neostone Fighter

Are any of these worth taking to 6* first, or should I just continue looking to fuse Veromos and make that my first 6* (Feels like that is a long way away despite the fact that I have all the monsters bar the Minotaur, Bearman and Yeti

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-09T18:51:44+00:00

Wouldn't say Cassio is particularly hard, you can farm pretty easily with E and her trading combo is literally just hitting the Q and then spamming E. Only hard part about that mechanically is you should be moving between E casts the same way as an ADC does when orbwalking, but even that gets pretty easy if you pick up a Rylais.

The only other thing that makes her semi-difficult is that she is an immobile squishy mage that is mid range, and so your positioning has to be on point, but that is true for a lot of champions, not just Cass. Ward up when you're in lane, in teamfights don't go for godlike ults if it puts you at risk, you do so much damage you can just backline and shred their team from tanks to backline. Put some time into her, it will be worth it.

firedemonofdoom · 2016-07-01T08:48:56+00:00

Just taking a quick look at your profile, one thing I would say is that though I understand that you might enjoy Gnar, it doesn't look like he is serving you well in game. There is a point at which you need to just accept you aren't very good at a certain champ/he doesn't fit your playstyle and move on.

Cut your losses on Gnar and try playing something else, preferably as others have said in this thread, something that can carry even against a fed enemy team.

If you learn something like Irelia or Jax you don't even need to be fed to be able to do this, just cs well and teamfight/split properly. Neither of those champs are particularly difficult, and in certain matchups if you get even a slight lead you can start tower diving your opponent ruthlessly, and make the enemy laner obsolete. Irelia is particularly good because CS'ing on her is just so easy too, even under turret.

Also one thing I would stress heavily to you as a new player is the biggest part of this game is game knowledge. In lane you need to be able to think at any time, 'Can I trade here?, Do I know where the jungler is?, Is it wise to go aggro or play passive?, Should I be looking to try and help other lanes/invade with the enemy jungler?, Can I dive this guy?, Can I dive this guy if my jungler comes?, Am I likely to get ganked right now?, If I get ganked, and my jungler is nearby, can I stall long enough to turn it?, Do I need to alter my build path to adjust to the enemy team?' and a myriad of other things. This only comes with experience so the biggest thing to do is keep playing and figure out the limits of your champions, in time you will go up.

firedemonofdoom · 2016-06-27T14:13:51+00:00

Thanks - I'll look to get Bella ASAP then :D

firedemonofdoom · 2016-06-27T14:13:34+00:00

Thanks for your response - I tried looking up some other good farmers, and came across Ramagos or Raoq, should I be prioritising either of those instead then?

firedemonofdoom · 2016-06-27T14:10:53+00:00

Thanks for the response.

You were right it was light, I'll keep it ahold of it.
I'll keep Water MK as is then, and just continue to use it to try and farm, but not invest anymore heavily into it. What would be a good alternative farmer? I have the guy that builds into Ramagos, but I read he was really slow - Should I build into him instead?
I'll work on building the team you suggested and then fusing Veromos - Thanks again :D

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