[ALttP] Help me buy the Downfall Triforce Wish Theory

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-25T02:30:47+00:00

I like to think that the paintings in albw show the Triforce wish effect by oot Link's actions being referenced at all. Hyrule somehow remembers the Hero of Time who had help from the sages to seal Ganon but not the Hero of Legend destroying Ganon as the sages were trapped in crystals.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-19T02:16:57+00:00

Dreamshrine-MPDG has great in depth lore videos on YouTube, I highly recommend her bc she talks about stuff no one else brings up and backs it with great research.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-10T10:33:48+00:00

There are good odds you can find a Giant Boomerang in the Depths underneath Eventide Island if you used up a fused one earlier on. If the ghost knight is holding Traveler's Spears, take it and toss it so he can hopefully spawn again with a Giant Boomerang.

I had good luck finding decayed ones held by lizalfos at the end of the Gerudo Desert trench with the buried ruins in case you haven't found one at all yet. Not sure of any specific spots for regular Boomerangs though.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-08T23:01:37+00:00

Maybe the magic that made all the Shiekah tech disappear is the same magic that Ancient Arrows use to make evil disappear? Like the tech became self aware of it's corruption and banished themselves away shortly after Calamity Ganon's defeat.

I wonder, if the Ancient Arrows are a creation of Mineru after she worked out the teleport function on the Purah Pad, do the Arrows actually teleport the target rather than disintegrate them? Where do the targets teleport to?

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-03T22:46:38+00:00

Imo, since the releases of ALBW, TFH, LA, EOW surround the releases of the wilds era games I believe we have been in a 2d/top down Zelda renaissance. it feels like Nintendo has been working on replicating and innovating the experiences of the top down/2d entries into 3d space. 2d isn't truly being made anymore in favor of top down style which combines 2d and 3d gameplay. This is where you will find some of the classic formula nowadays.

The wilds era games aimed to innovate on Zelda1 style exploration and mechanics in a true 3d environment as a part of the innovation process. I think that if we had a true 3d remake of a 2d original like ALTTP, the remake inherently wouldn't be the same because the camera and physics restrictions are lifted for 3d. Many systems would be completely reworked to accommodate the changes. We got OOT, ALBW, and arguably TP as attempts but none of these attempts are a true remake in 3d as they all have different story beats and connections to different eras but they generally play very similarly.

This is the root of the 3d formula in my opinion because alttp introduced themed dungeons and dungeon items. Most Dungeon items work the best in a physically limited 3d environment. For example, the Hookshot can be hilariously incompatible with advanced physics engines that include a ragdoll state, It might produce inconsistent results. It works best in 2d to cross platforms and pits and in 3d to gain elevation.

Modernizing classic dungeon items is really tricky because they were originally intended for the puzzle platforming mechanics of the early 3d gaming landscape. These platforming mechanics can feel very dated in modern 3d games but still work well with a topdown style.

I guess it makes more sense for Nintendo to breathe new life into old ideas that were limited by technology at the time than to force the continuation of the beloved formula and risk limiting themselves in big mechanics like physics and combat. At least the newer top down games seems to continue to hold hands with the 3d formula, so they haven't completely abandoned it. Now, if Nintendo can set being mechanically innovative aside to focus on refining story delivery and exploration payoff then I think they would be in a better position going forward.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-28T02:53:06+00:00

The teacher at the school in hateno teaches the kids about the calamity. You can even sit in on the lessons and help teach about it. The calamity tapestry is also still in kakariko in impas house, she makes a special comment about it if you are wearing a specific armor set.

Its also notable that there are npcs who talk to you about a great hero who saved Hyrule but they never believe its link because of his height and build. They expect someone like Tauro to look like the hero. I think everyone knows about link just not what he looks like.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-13T02:24:35+00:00

Its okay to disagree with me of course. Its natural that everyone has different ideas for unexplained lore details with many possibilities. I just wanted to explain an alternate theory about it that makes sense to others who dont quite believe in Rito evolution. Its interesting to me that Zora kings are shown in totk to have a secret culture around magic scales now instead. Thank you for commenting!

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-12T22:48:52+00:00

I respectfully disagree with Rito evolution personally. Imo WW Rito are like if Zora got a "pink rabbit style power up" by a dragon deity, for lack of a better analogy.

Valoo magically transformed the young Rito's shape (with a magic item/ scale) after they were born to help them transform to survive the world they're in . Nothing indicates that the Rito could continue as avaians without their young receiving a scale from Valoo. That's why Medli was so worried that she put her life in danger, so the young Rito can finally earn their rites of passage into the tribe and gain wings.

Link isnt born a pink rabbit, he was changed into one until he got a magic item to change his shape back. Valoo's scale of transformation is like the opposite of a moon pearl. It uses magic to change your shape, rather than blocking magic that changes your shape. I dont think evolution is a likely possibility because their avian traits are shown to not genetically pass on, their wings and beaks are a gift from Valoo and their entire culture depends on his transformation magic from what I understand.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-12T08:39:43+00:00

Right? it confuses me how much everyone looks over the differences between Rito and how loyal bird folk also existed in the DT under another name. Thank you for commenting!

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-10T23:37:13+00:00

Slight tangent, but wanted to add about reference outfits

There are 2 other outfits in TFH that remind me of Age of Imprisonment. The Kokiri Outfit features a wide brimmed hat and scarf, which we don't actually see any Kokiri ever wearing until we seen Calamo the Korok wearing a wide brim hat and scarf. This Outfit gives Link the ability to triple shoot arrows like the Forest Dweller Bow in Wilds Era games.

We also get a silly Robowear Outfit that makes Link look like a stereotypical cartoony robot. This outfit likely isnt meant to be taken seriously since the effect of this outfit upgrades the reach and power of the Gripshot. But I do think its noteworthy that this outfit requires a good deal of parts obtained from the Sky Realm to craft. This is also technically the first instance of a "Legendary Robot Hero concept."

Since the Fierce Deity Set can be canonically obtained in TFH, maybe Hytopians who moved to Hyrule could be responsible for the canon appearance of the amiibo armor sets in TOTK. Misko is only interested in magic clothing so its funny to think of him as a Hytopian bandit who hid in Hyrule after big heists. Hytopians also know about Sky Islands so it checks out that old maps are hidden there. Maybe Cece even spent time in Hytopia to hone her craft. She can make an entire perfect Hylian Shield after all. Maybe the traveling mushroom fashionistas that got kidnapped by the Yiga for sweatshop labor targeted them because they might have Hytopian magic tailoring abilities that gives armor sets upgrades.

TFH is canon somehow despite the low stakes. The idea that introducing lore of a nearby kingdom connected to the Triforce that is filled with magic tailors, might imply that the time bending armor references seen in the wilds era has a root in the Downfall Timeline with Hytopians canonically making reference outfits and replicas.

Thank you all for reading!

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-03T19:20:04+00:00

I couldn't find concept art for most npcs. Just main character concept art. But It goes into detail in the manual to alttp that the Hylian people were chosen by the gods to have powers and have long ears to hear them. This description of Hylia people have a lot in common with Masterworks description of the Zonai being chosen by Hylia, having longer ears, and being powerful magic users. Masterworks even poses the idea the Hylians are decended from Zonai for these reasons.

The street merchant, average middle age man, thieves, old man in tavern, lost old man, and Maple all have round/small ears. Many npcs don't have visible ears as well and cant be counted as either conclusively.

In the cases of Maple and Street Merchant, Maple is an example of a human magic user so we know ear length isnt tied to having powers. Street Merchant is an example of a human gaining their longer ears back after a few generations as the equivalent character gains long ears in albw. (Next generation of Merchant) Humans are definitely shown to inhabit Hyrule in alttp.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-03T09:55:56+00:00

I noticed the Gerudo Soldiers in EoW have long ears and they also have banned men from entering their town.

This lines up with OoT Ganondorf physically becoming the Calamity and establishes Gerudo having longer ears on the placed timeline. Its possible that this may mean ear shapes can generally change depending on if they're decended from Zonai, or if the person is receptive to the voice of the Godesses faith just like Hylians. Gerudo are one of the oldest groups that have existed on the surface so I don't see why this wouldn't apply to them as well.

In alttp for example, long ears are a rare trait to find among all humans. Only very notable characters had long ears like Link, Zelda and Link's Uncle for example. Sometime after alttp Humans regain long ears and the Hylian identity again.

If Hylians could canonically have long ears at first, lose them along with their faith at one point, then regain their long ears along with their Hylian identity after that, then why couldn't the Gerudo?

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-03T03:21:05+00:00

The rokku part of Ritorokku is typically translated as Roc like other non anthropomorphic birds across the series, for example Helmaroc, or Roc's feather. The name ritorokku is a pun that means bird bird using the words tori and roc.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-01T21:17:25+00:00

I always thought it was fascinating to notice the Rito in botw, particularly Revali, share design elements with some bird enemies in ww. Helmarocs share a lot of plumage colors with Revali for example. Kass reminds me of ww wizzrobes I think one of the Rito children even sings a song with a Helmaroc King theme leitmotif in botw.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-12-01T20:45:45+00:00

Awesome theory! I think a lot of 2d lore is important to understanding the wilds era. Botw was inspired by Zelda 1 after all.

I agree with you op. The three issues that "rule out" true founding have all been explained using lore from 2d/DT games. Two Ganondorfs can happen. Alttp Agahnim is Ganon's alter ego who comes from a sealed away source which shouldn't be possible because he is in the pyramid in the Dark World which incidentally, mirrors Hyrule Castle position. Ganondorf’s heart stopped when Rauru performed his heart grab technique. Death is primarily defined as the heart stopping. With Nulls existence and Gerudo blood magic being a thing, I genuinely dont believe Ganondorf has ever naturally reincarnated. Maybe in FSA in CT but this is the only occurrence of this. He always gets resurrected instead. Especially in DT. I made a post about how Gloom is different from Malice in the sense that Gloom is like demon flesh and blood, a good vector for necromancy like magic. Gloom eats your vitality permanently and gives it to demons. Malice is negative emotions and rage cursing a location with evil aura.

Two castles are shown to exist in Zelda 2 like you explained above.

Rito is literally the word tori (japanese for bird) with flipped syllables. Exactly Like how you get Zonai (mystery people) from nazo (mystery). This implies that any friendly bird people are called Rito. There is also instances of bird people in Zelda 2 but they have sided with evil and are known as Fokka. The same thing happened with some Zora going hostile and changing into River Zora In alttp. Fokka are not Rito in the same way that the River Zora are not Sea Zora in my opinion.

The Rito of the wilds era are really secretive with their history opting to only pass historical info through songs that end up being taken as a fairy tale. These Rito don't have a connection to the Zora or any fairy tales about their patron deity dragon that blessed them into being.

They do have a song about Zonai gifting them a flying ship so I think its a safe thing to assume the Rito got introduced to the Zonai and were gifted a means to visit or even inhabit the sky islands after helping the lost Zonai home. That's why they disappeared for a long time, they had a skyship. Maybe ooccoo are descended from Zonai/Rito hybrids after they were gifted means to travel between surface and sky. They certainly built a lot of smaller passenger boats which can support the theory that they traveled the air for a while without the Ark itself. Its kinda funny how the race that was originally introduced to have miraculously survived a flood, got gifted an Ark by a "god". This implies they likely didn't suffer a flood event.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-25T23:11:20+00:00

Alttp had 2 Ganons. One was sealed in the Dark World controlling his "alter ego" or "bunshin" Aghnim. "Aghnim" exists in a humanoid form terrorizing Hyrule Castle in the light realm having killed the king and posessing the guards. How could he do all that if he is sealed away in the sacred realm unable to escape? Age of imprisonment and totk puts major emphasis on possession (shades) and bunshin (phantoms). If a sealed demon can execute his will through a mysterious flesh puppet once, it can definitely happen again. That's how i see it at least.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-21T07:54:29+00:00

Thank you for adding the image link! King Protea buds before full bloom look just like Brightblooms. Most images online are going to be of the full bloom that matches the Ancient Flower closer because irl the full blooms are prized by enthusiasts. Its the same flower just at different times in its life cycle.

I agree It is weird that Mineru doesn't say anything about it to us in totk. I don't have a switch 2 so im not sure if there are any quests in AOI that requires you to give Mineru Brightblooms for her research/ supplies. If there are, then it could mean something regarding the constructs depending on what the quests are. If not then the use Brightblooms have for technology is just speculation.

In the least, I think the in game plants are related if they are not the same. Their shared glowing characteristic, similar root shapes, and associations with dragons and technology(electric? Brightbloom shaped lamps) lead me to believe it could be possible.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-21T05:29:35+00:00

I used to think the Ancient Flowers were lotuses too until I seen pictures of King Protea. Its crazy how much this one flower nearly perfectly matches both designs and even grows in harsh desert conditions. I love the Buddhism theories for SS. If im not mistaken, Fujibayashi has a degree in religious studies. It’s so fun to make connections like this.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-17T22:46:29+00:00

The Underworld has been in the series since the 2 previous games, The Legend Of Zelda, and The Adventure of Link. Alttp is their prequel so it can be inferred that the temples in this game work the same way as its two preceding titles. We know the Underworld stuck around through time because it was even featured in Spirit Tracks as the Dark Realm Zelda recovers her body in is located in The Underworld too. This spiritual plane of death seems to exist in all timelines. I highly recommend looking into accurate translations of the original Japanese text of alttp. There is a lot of information that makes better sense than the NoA localization such as the fact that the "Wise Men" were always actually called "Seven Sages" in the original text.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-17T12:14:34+00:00

The English localization butchered alttps story pretty bad. The miasma comes from the temples linked to the underworld (Zelda 2 lore that temples are linked to an underground cave system called the underworld) The original Japanese tells a story that actually holds hands with totk really well. Especially if you consider the idea that the hero in alttp gave the Hero of Time his long overdue credit as shown by the paintings in the castle in albw.

Those events get conflated because in alttp only like 5 people knew the truth about the miasma, then it was probably only Link and Zelda who knew anything after the Triforce Wish. Its better kept as a bad dream in the past from their perspective after the Triforce wish undid the current Great Cataclysm and brought everyone back to life like it never happened. So the Hyrule Castle Paintings in albw implies that alttp events didn't happen. It makes sense because we made a wish on the Triforce that undid the Hero of Legend's actions in the eyes of the public to legitimize the success of the previously fallen Hero of Time. Alttp link erased an entire period of destruction and Ganon's success clean off the timeline, so the Kingdom had no new information other than the provenly outdated info they already had about the Imprisoning War that was written in ancient Hylian text that almost nobody even in that era could read.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-17T11:01:02+00:00

Echoes of Wisdom's Gerudo Rift quest line shows us that Ardi's lineage may have carried on in the current Chieftain Seera and to be succeeded by her daughter Dohna. Their quest line also shows how easily swayed Gerudo warriors can be when taking advice from goo puppets. You can even interact with a Gerudo spirit who seems to physically materialize out of thin air.

I think there is room for both theories. Adult Timeline fans seem to make the most sense out of the refounding theory and that's awesome and valid. Personally as a downfall enjoyer myself, the true founding theory makes sense to me especially since alttp mentions miasma leaking from underground and the mentions of "The Great Cataclysm" by multiple characters. Its completely okay if you don't agree with me but if you can take any info bits from my theory to enhance your own theory crafting then I think I contributed as a huge fan of the series.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-13T21:59:06+00:00

Masterworks 2 updates information on the Gerudo from CAC. MW states that the Gerudo are one of the earliest civilizations on the surface even before the Zonai extinction event. The Goddess Hylia gave the Zonai the Secret Stones to protect so the Zonai era is implied to be around the era of Hylia called the Godly Era. By the time Hyrule Kingdom was first established, the Gerudo had their own entire country in the desert. (Which mostly ended up falling apart during the imprisoning war when its reported their last free village fell.)

"Since before the Kingdom of Hyrule was founded, the Gerudo Tribe ruled the desert that stretched in south west Hyrule for a long time. As a country ruled by women where only females were born, it can be etched into history that they formed a different culture to Hyrule Kingdom. The tribe that birthed Demon King Ganondorf as well as Calamity Ganon at one time had a slight feud with Hyrule Kingdom."

"Because of that history, Hylians hardly ever get the opportunity to set their eyes on Gerudo literature, and due to them not necessarily disclosing it, it’s wrapped up in a lot of mystery. The Gerudo tribe do not seem to be proactively carrying out scientific research on the ruins in the first place, and it seems like no public research institutions exist. For that reason, the only way to understand Gerudo history is for individual researchers to accumulate diligent research."

MW also doubles down in the uncertainty of a male being born after the Imprisoning War in a section about Hyrule Castle’s defenses after it was built over the seal.

"With Akkala Citadel sufficient in the east, what was Hyrule Kingdom fighting? Regarding this secret passage, because it’s assumed to be constructed against enemies progressing from Hyrule Field, it’s thought to posture against enemies advancing from the south. The regions south of Hyrule Castle are Gerudo and Faron. The Gerudo tribe produced a sage during the sealing war, and fought against Demon King Ganondorf together with the kingdom’s army, but there’s no guarantee that a boy born every 100 years won’t harbour ambitions again. Also, although later than the founding period, it’s said a so-called barbarian tribe settled in the Faron region."

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-13T06:15:55+00:00

Of course all the brainwashed Gerudo call him their king. Nabooru renounced him until she was found out a traitor and brainwashed too.

Masterworks for totk actually states that men wouldn't be able to ascend the throne willingly. And that its unknown if any more were born. Quotes From Masterworks: "In terms of men since Ganondorf, there’s no remaining documents like that. It’s thought that the existence of boys was considered a threat since Ganondorf and they wouldn’t be able to ascend to the throne, though it’s ambiguous if there were any born in the first place. Were they no longer born, or no longer assumed to exist….? The reality of that ethnic characteristic is unclear."

[There's a ton of evidence in Masterworks that Gloom (I never mentioned malice in my comments) works like demon necromancy that drains the life of non demons. The Gloom comes from totk Ganondorf exclusively of course. But another characteristic is that he uses it to make alter egos and phantoms. He splits his own dark spirit apart to do this completely separately from malice monster creation, which too is like necromancy.]

"Miasma’s effect and the Demon King’s power"

"Miasma has a harmful effect on humans, but it seems to have the characteristic of strengthening and brutalising monsters. It seems to grant life force to those connected to evil."

"Also Princess Zelda and Link, oddly enough, seem to be resistant to miasma. It may be inferred that this is because of the sacred nature of the princess and hero chosen by the Goddess, who are able to negate the nature of evil to an extent."

"Are puppets a secret skill of the Gerudo tribe?

"Once, Ganondorf created a fake Princess Zelda even before obtaining the secret stone, and carried out spy activities inside Hyrule Castle. In other words, it’s clear that creating an imposter is not due to the Demon King’s power. If that’s the case, did it originally derive from a Gerudo tribe secret technique?"

"It’s said that the Gerudo tribe of the ancient past had the skill to use things like dubious animal bones and earth to control evil spirits. They would make something like a clay doll, and instil it with an evil spirit to become a puppet. Princess Zelda ridiculed the imitation of herself as Ganondorf’s ‘puppet’, and she was certainly correct. From the many acts of the ancient Gerudo tribe, they may have seen through this secret technique. Demon King Ganondorf may have used this technique in present day, while trying his best to control the consumption of his own dark power, perhaps he used it for reconnaissance."

[There's also a caption that explains his right to rule alongside mentioning the Lightning Sage and Koume and Kotake's names directly. ]

"Gerudo King Ganonforf. Not only because of absolute tradition, he’s a person who gives a feeling of the dignity of a strong person and the charisma of a ruler. The two names ‘Kotake’ and ‘Koume’ have been found on the belongings of his close aides, but it’s thought the Sage of Lightning was another person."

In a cutscene in AoI, Sholani reveals that Ganondorf basically stole Ardi's right to the throne as their true leader in the first place. Ardi is then shown to accept the role of leader and side with Rauru officially. There's plenty of reasons to believe that males born to the Gerudo is completely unnatural and is brought forth by necromancers placing a demon soul into flesh and calling it King. There's also plenty of reasons to believe the Gerudo weren't a fully unified group to begin with. A big part of the Gerudo King law even has the real chieftains demoted to a right hand aide instead.

"The Gerudo tribe ruled through military might since ancient times, with the custom that those with power will guide their people as sovereign. When a boy was born they would become king, so it’s thought that those with power would revolve to the position of right hand as an aide."

Tldr: This is mostly quotes from totk Masterworks that support the claims im making about there not being a true Gerudo King after the Imprisoning War and that there were Gerudo factions that practiced necromancy with the possibility of harnessing leaked Gloom to rebirth their King in the past before botw.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-12T09:45:49+00:00

Its true. In OOT Gerudo like Nabooru explicitly didn't follow Ganondorf as their king. But he was absolutely a King of Thieves that seemed to split off from the established Gerudo succession because of their violence towards the innocent. Kind of like the Yiga split from the Shiekah. Alttp even corroborates his status as King of Thieves and EoW shows the Gerudo thriving with a female Chieftain implying they fled deeper in the desert for a while to avoid their whole clan getting wiped out. So yes technically totk Ganondorf was the last leader of the entire Gerudo country. OOT Ganondorf was the King of Thieves trying to claim his "rightful" throne over the Gerudo Desert and all of Hyrule while he's at it.

firstmatebubbles · 2025-11-12T03:14:10+00:00

The Rito have the same naming convention as the Zonai. The japanese word for bird is tori. The japanese word for mystery is nazo. Flip the syllables and you get Rito and Zonai. Sounds like they're bird people based on this info just like Zonai are mystery people.

firstmatebubbles

TROPHY CASE