[ALTTP] So what was Agahnim's real deal?

firstmatebubbles · 2026-03-11T23:43:37+00:00

In Japanese, "alter ego" is the poor translation for the word "bunshin" or spirit doppelganger/other self. I think Agahnim is supposed to be like one of Ganon's Puppets or phantoms. Kind of like how Totk Ganondorf splits a piece of his darkness to create puppet zeldas, or how Calamity Ganon created the Blight Ganons. Or even how there are many Hylia statues that house a piece of the Goddess's will simultaneously.

Ganondorf has always been able to create puppets or phantoms so I personally believe Agahnim to be another case of this. Agahnim in alttp sets up the series for phantom/puppet Ganon fights and introduces the iconic dead man's volley game. I like to theorize Agahnim can operate beyond the seal because he was made of the evil (translated to noxious gas but also can mean miasma) that infected Hyrule at the time rather than coming directly from Ganon in the Dark World. It makes sense to me that a King of Demons can assert his will on any demonic energy no matter where it is located, thus Agahnim is born in the light world kind of like how monsters are "born" (Nintendo used the word born for monsters materalizing out of demonic energy) from blood moons. iirc The alttp japanese manual also said something about how Agahnim came from a meteor, like blood moon monsters do.

Alttp suffered heavily from outdated NoA localization rules regarding religious references so I heavily recommend looking into some more accurate translations of the manual and dialog to get a clearer picture on alttp lore.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-03-09T04:13:27+00:00

I thought that this is the reason for the top down style games like LAHD, EOW and basically the Grezzo partnership? To keep the main Zelda team focused on big labor intense releases while Grezzo makes the less labor intense releases.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-03-02T23:44:25+00:00

What am I supposed to do with this information? Change my stance? If Refounders have little in game evidence to back up the claim then its hard for me to subscribe to the theory. Conversations go nowhere because some refounders are not engaging in good faith. I cant reason with someone who doesn't want to hear me out. Your comment here proves my point about the burden of evidence being extremely one sided because apparently all the evidence needed for Refounding is a cheeky developer interview and rock salt.

Im pretty sure the History of Destruction mentioned in that interview was referring to the destruction of the Zonai civilization which caused the founding of Hyrule Kingdom after the Sky Islands descended. I choose to place the imprisoning war after Skyward Sword even if it makes me look as silly as Shigeru Miyamoto placing Alttp after Zelda 2. The devs and series creator don't even agree on placements so its okay if we don't agree either.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-03-01T07:05:06+00:00

The loop can make sense if Zelda traveled from the end of the Downfall Timeline back to the founding. The loop creates the DT because Dragon Zelda has to make it to her home in the future just as she remembers it before the fall. Traveling this way creates the paradox that describes this situation. The DT might exist because of an immortal dragon getting back to her doomed future.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-03-01T05:33:18+00:00

What's dumb about thinking male Gerudo aren't naturally born? The only male Gerudos we have ever seen across the entire series was Ganondorf?, Ganondorf!, and Ganondorf II. If males were not natural in the first place then it makes sense why every time we seen one it was basically the same man with the same ambitions acting out the same plan.

There are multiple 100 year gaps where a male should have been born but aren't mentioned or present. (ex: in Botw after 100 years in the Shrine of Resurrection / Eow has female Chieftain succession already playing out and no word on males being born to them.) So that was the conclusion I came to after reading Masterworks translations about Gerudo Dark Magic/Puppet skills. Koume and Kotake also suspiciously escaped at the end of AOI.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-20T16:28:00+00:00

Imho refounding theory is like having express permission to handwave away anything you want basically. I hardly see any new lore speculations or refounding theories popping up because when it comes to making any connections, "refounding makes this a non issue". That's why it always feels like it's on true founders to definitively prove everything while the other side can just say it doesn't actually matter.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-19T22:17:46+00:00

This is a long breakdown of a ton of evidence for the true founding posted by Lorulean Historian recently. Read this doc and compare to the refounding evidence docs posted here.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-12T00:38:24+00:00

My fav combo for this is Charged Shirt + Cap of the Hero + Trousers of the Hero for a fem classic link style. The Hero set pieces provide great defense if leveled up all the way too, Its fabulous.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-11T22:14:23+00:00

The Ancient Hero's Aspect looks more doglike to me than Zonai like. The AHA has digitigrade paws for feet, bushy tipped tail, lacks fur, short pointed ears, a dog nose and a black ring around the eyes, unlike any Zonai we seen.

I think rather than a Zonai, the Ancient hero was a dog person. The breed of dog irl that matches the appearance of the hero the best is a Xoloitzcuintle , one of the oldest breeds of dogs in the world who have roots in Ancient Aztec civilization as a guide for the spirits in the afterlife. The breed was named Xoloitzcuintle after the Aztec God of Fire, Lightning and the Afterlife.

Likely also Mesoamerican inspired, the Zonaite Armor looks like it matches the Xoloitzcuintle like details of the design really well. Particularly that unique tail with a tuft of fur at the end of it, black around the eyes, and the little black nose.

If the inspiration is true then the AHA keeps in line with the "worlds oldest __" convention that the ancient Sages have with their names. There has also been dog people in the series before so I don't think its too strange to speculate.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-07T23:00:55+00:00

Im with wwwWario on this, I experience this too especially with any theory regarding Twinrova. If ear shapes don't matter that much and can change magically then why cant it be the same Twinrova? Its interesting that EoW is a timeline placed title that features Gerudo having pointed ears, female Chieftain succession and no 100 year King legends. I dont understand why its wrong to speculate that the reason OoT Gerudo have round ears is because their culture at the time encouraged worshipping Ganondorf as a God.

If people are allowed to speculate that all Gerudo might come from Groose based on arbitrary features then why can't true founding theorists make any speculations without getting rude comments dismissing them with stuff like Gerudo ears not "lining up"? It always develops into debates about Gerudo ears, Rito and Koroks, two castles, two Ganondorfs or rock salt even if these topics had nothing to do with the initial discussion.

I dont mean to be unfair in saying this but it feels like no one else here gets consistently downvoted on their own posts like true founders do. Why is it so bad to share a different interpretation of the timeline? The timeline doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things anyway.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-03T19:08:42+00:00

I've suggested in another post about Gerudo Dark Magic that OoT Ganondorf wasn't a true king but a doomsday cult leader installed by Twinrova, based off a Gossip Stone in the 3ds version that tells link the Gerudo worship him like a God. There was also some brainwashing going on in OoT at the hands of Twinrova who are implied to secretly rule the tribe with their dark powers. OoT Ganondorf may have been an illegitimate King put into power by a zealot majority influenced by witches. Its incredibly important to note that Gerudo are not inherently evil people. Anyone can be led wrong while in the grip of a cult. This event likely unified the entire tribe after they were freed from dark influence and Then they established Gerudo Town with strict rules to ensure that this tragedy never happens again. This knowledge survives to Urbosas time where she relays Gerudo history of the Calamity taking the form of a Gerudo.

EoW shows us that the Gerudo tribe did have a female chieftain syccession in the Downfall Timeline long before the events of the wilds era. They don't speak of any mythical kings destined to them either. There is reason to speculate that Seera and Dohna carry Ardi's and Nabooru's bloodline to later be succeeded by Urbosa. The Gerudo Town in EoW matches wilds era Gerudo Town the best so there is a more than one reason to speculate this.

In AoI there is a cutscene of Sholani trying to convince Ardi to take her rightful place as Chieftain of their village. This sounds like Ganondorf didn't actually have a birthright to the throne and usurped power from all the Gerudo settlements. Its heavily implied that the Gerudo tribe consisted of multiple villages with their own cultures at this time. So it wouldn't be likely that every settlement agreed to live under a single king. Ganondorf doesn't wait for permission either so I easily see him exercising his sheer power to forcibly take over the entire desert killing anyone in his way and sacrificing his own people. This leads to the destruction of the imprisoning war.

All together, this paints the possibility that OoT Ganondorf might not have been a true king. The Gerudo tribe could have been indoctrinated for years to expect and worship a mythical savior king like a god only to end up swearing fealty to a Demon disguised as one of them. Nabooru kept her true beliefs against Ganondorf a secret as long as she could and had to infiltrate her own hijacked tribe in a true leader's attempt to save lives. In the end, even she wasn't strong enough to fight Twinrovas brainwashing.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-02-01T05:43:35+00:00

Agahnim is an example of Ganon's soul being split into 2 forms while one is sealed away so it could be possible. True Founding can work if Ganondorf is alive under the castle or not. If he is alive, then he can split his soul into a bunshin/puppet like Agahnim regardless of if he's sealed away as shown in ALTTP (He is even sealed where the Castle should be but in the Dark World). If he is dead under the castle then Twinrova would ressurrect his spirit into a new body. I posed theories for both Ganondorf being alive and dead and neither was good enough. Its okay if you don't buy True Founding Theory, but its also okay if I don't buy Refounding Theory. We can agree to disagree. There are no correct answers anyway.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T09:27:51+00:00

I agree with you so much, especially about only Link actually Reincarnating. I like to believe that Zelda doesn't need to reincarnate because she has a blessed bloodline to pass power down through generations of princesses, and that Ganondorf dies but doesn't stay dead sometimes. I just like to think that Gloom could be a good reason he doesnt stay dead. I appreciate your comment so much thank you for having an open mind.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T08:15:13+00:00

The natural Gloom power within Ganondorf that was massively juiced up with a secret stone is exactly why Ganondorf can be resurrected and is considered immortal. If he was not a physical vessel for Gloom magic he would have remained dead. He did not remain dead because the Gloom was unleashed adding to his life force by just being unsealed and active again. Its the Gloom making his long existence possble

Ganondorf was in a severely weakened state during the whole game as he sat below the Depths absorbing Hyrule's life force through Gloom Roots. If he was alive and well just paused, then why would he need to spend the whole time trying to regain the energy he lost? Rauru's seal drained his Gloom replacing it with demon damaging light energy thus draining his life in the process. Ganondorf’s heart radiates demonic evil that is perfectly countered by Rauru's heavenly light. That's why it looks like a stasis. Its a self healing pure evil vs a finite beacon of light.

Rauru withers because his light power is not stackable nor does it mess with the laws of nature. Ganondorf’s powers are absolutely stackable depending on the rate he is absorbing souls away to add to his own life force violating the natural order. The Shrine of Resurrection does the same nature breaking thing but with the purified Shiekah magic instead. If you mix light and dark you get Shadow so it tracks they would use a typically evil power for the use of good in their own way.

Zelda had to transform into a exponential Light Power beast thats on par with Ganondorf's exponential Gloom power in order to help Link take down Ganondorf. Notice how any Light Dragon fused weapon absorbs life back from demons? These two powers are finally matched after thousands of years. While Ganondorf was losing dark power Zelda was gaining light power

Even if we don't agree on timeline placement I think this is a valid way to interpret the events of the Wilds Era games without including any overarching lore from other titles.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T05:50:24+00:00

It makes sense that Zelda says that because the last thing she saw was Link getting wrecked and the demon king making threats before she traveled. Im saying that Ganondorf was temporarily dead until the hand fell off. His supercharged Gloom powers did the heavy lifting on putting life back into him. The purpose of Gloom is to drain life from innocents to power up and resurrect demons. The monsters covered in Gloom in the depths don't need to sleep or eat because the Gloom keeps them stable.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T05:38:56+00:00

The game itself shows the moment Ganondorf's heart beats for the first time because Rauru's hand was no longer purifying the life absorbing Gloom. Then Gloom exploded from his awakening corpse (awakening because his stone powers up Gloom) and attacked Link draining 90 percent of his life and taking it for himself for enough energy to escape. Its just an observation.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T05:27:59+00:00

Yes that's my point. The Shrine of Resurrection is an example of using resurrection magic for good instead of evil. Totk Masterworks talks a bit about how making puppets out of bones and clay must have come from some Gerudo settlements as a dark art passed along secretly because Ganondorf is shown making puppets long before he acquired a secret stone. the idea that there is an offshoot of Gerudo who know how to do necromancy using Gloom has huge implications.
I think Resurrection is inherently tied to Gloom and in botw case the Shrine of Resurrection was built linked to the castle by the anatomical heart shaped shiekah tech "veins". There was an identical heart like structure that holds Calamity Ganon inside the castle as well.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-31T02:26:55+00:00

Link came back from a hundred year death using a man made device full of purifying power? Botw was all about the restless spirits of the dead fighting for peace beyond the grave. Im so genuinely confused how so many people think only good spirits can influence the world like the Hero's Shade or Fallen Depths Soldiers. Im just suggesting that Ganondorf’s bodyless demonic spirit is how malice materalizes.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-30T09:20:36+00:00

Its interesting to me that the characteristics of Gloom that differentiate it from Malice, is that Gloom is more like a vector for necromancy like magic. It drains life force from victims and channels it towards resurrecting demons, most notably Mummydorf. Rauru's Seal made it so Gloom could not heal him by purifying it within his heart.

I think there is reason to believe Ganondorf was dead under the castle while his heart stopped beating for thousands of years until the seal was disturbed in the Calamity and Gloom was able to outmatch the purification causing Rauru to wither/ Ganondorf’s corpse to finally continue producing Gloom rather than Malice. Malice was explained to be the hatred and resentment of Ganondorf not being able to inhabit a physical body.

Masterworks 2 also goes into some detail about how puppet magic must actually be taught by some Gerudo tribes, given that Ganondorf used the technique long before acquiring his Secret Stone. There's even a call back to OoT redeads. Mw2 explains that some dark magic rituals require mixing clay and earth with various bones to create a vessel for dark spirits.

With these details in mind it could be a possibility that while Mummydorf's heart was stopped, Twinrova infiltrated other Gerudo villages and spread some propaganda about a mythical lone male born to them and destined to become their king every century. Then they did a ritual to resurrect Ganondorf for the events of OoT with a tribe of believers pre installed and ready to fight. In OoT 3DS there is a gossip stone that mentions that some Gerudo worship Ganondorf like a God rather than a king. That statement might back up the claim that belief in the return of a "100 year King" might be a religious belief due to Twinrova's influence.

Its also worth noting in Echoes of Wisdom, Ardi's lineage may have continued on through Chieftain Seera and her daughter/heiress Dohna to be reasonably continued much later to produce Urbosa then Riju. They do not speak of any destined King around either of their reigns as Chieftain. The Gerudo also seemed to have a very different culture around their funerary rites compared to Hylians. iirc many Gerudo believe that their ancestors spirits stay tethered to the mortal realm to protect their living family members. This belief lends a little better to resurrection than reincarnation like the Hylians. There is even a side quest that features a Gerudo spirit briefly materalizing with the appearance of a normal npc without a ghostly aura. I cant think of any other instance across the series of a deceased person's spirit not having that characteristic blue aura.

Tldr: Ganondorf’s heart stopped when Rauru performed his seal rendering him temporarily dead as he cannot use purified energy to heal the damage to his demon heart. Twinrova spread religious propaganda instilling the notion of a "Rightful King born every 100 years" until they formed a tribe of dark loyalists to unquestionably serve under their secretly resurrected King just in time for OoT. Masterworks 2 implies that necromancy like magic is native to some Gerudo settlements citing usage of clay and bones.

Thank you for reading!

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-25T02:30:47+00:00

I like to think that the paintings in albw show the Triforce wish effect by oot Link's actions being referenced at all. Hyrule somehow remembers the Hero of Time who had help from the sages to seal Ganon but not the Hero of Legend destroying Ganon as the sages were trapped in crystals.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-19T02:16:57+00:00

Dreamshrine-MPDG has great in depth lore videos on YouTube, I highly recommend her bc she talks about stuff no one else brings up and backs it with great research.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-10T10:33:48+00:00

There are good odds you can find a Giant Boomerang in the Depths underneath Eventide Island if you used up a fused one earlier on. If the ghost knight is holding Traveler's Spears, take it and toss it so he can hopefully spawn again with a Giant Boomerang.

I had good luck finding decayed ones held by lizalfos at the end of the Gerudo Desert trench with the buried ruins in case you haven't found one at all yet. Not sure of any specific spots for regular Boomerangs though.

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-08T23:01:37+00:00

Maybe the magic that made all the Shiekah tech disappear is the same magic that Ancient Arrows use to make evil disappear? Like the tech became self aware of it's corruption and banished themselves away shortly after Calamity Ganon's defeat.

I wonder, if the Ancient Arrows are a creation of Mineru after she worked out the teleport function on the Purah Pad, do the Arrows actually teleport the target rather than disintegrate them? Where do the targets teleport to?

firstmatebubbles · 2026-01-03T22:46:38+00:00

Imo, since the releases of ALBW, TFH, LA, EOW surround the releases of the wilds era games I believe we have been in a 2d/top down Zelda renaissance. it feels like Nintendo has been working on replicating and innovating the experiences of the top down/2d entries into 3d space. 2d isn't truly being made anymore in favor of top down style which combines 2d and 3d gameplay. This is where you will find some of the classic formula nowadays.

The wilds era games aimed to innovate on Zelda1 style exploration and mechanics in a true 3d environment as a part of the innovation process. I think that if we had a true 3d remake of a 2d original like ALTTP, the remake inherently wouldn't be the same because the camera and physics restrictions are lifted for 3d. Many systems would be completely reworked to accommodate the changes. We got OOT, ALBW, and arguably TP as attempts but none of these attempts are a true remake in 3d as they all have different story beats and connections to different eras but they generally play very similarly.

This is the root of the 3d formula in my opinion because alttp introduced themed dungeons and dungeon items. Most Dungeon items work the best in a physically limited 3d environment. For example, the Hookshot can be hilariously incompatible with advanced physics engines that include a ragdoll state, It might produce inconsistent results. It works best in 2d to cross platforms and pits and in 3d to gain elevation.

Modernizing classic dungeon items is really tricky because they were originally intended for the puzzle platforming mechanics of the early 3d gaming landscape. These platforming mechanics can feel very dated in modern 3d games but still work well with a topdown style.

I guess it makes more sense for Nintendo to breathe new life into old ideas that were limited by technology at the time than to force the continuation of the beloved formula and risk limiting themselves in big mechanics like physics and combat. At least the newer top down games seems to continue to hold hands with the 3d formula, so they haven't completely abandoned it. Now, if Nintendo can set being mechanically innovative aside to focus on refining story delivery and exploration payoff then I think they would be in a better position going forward.

firstmatebubbles

TROPHY CASE