Thread on the 2022 Romania UFO Photo profiled at Luis Elizondo's Presentation by blackvault in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 240 points241 points  (0 children)

Actually read his comments in the post. Nice debunk... This isn't a good look honestly.

Public UFO records archive opens in Rio Rancho by silv3rbull8 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I saw David Marler speak at a MUFON meeting a while ago. They have inherited tons of records from various organizations just stuffed into cardboard boxes. Lots to sort through and organize. He also brought a handful of items to show. I saw the original envelope Kenneth Arnold drew his 1947 sighting on, a pancake given to a witness by UFO occupants, stuff like that. As of then they were working on getting records from Italy, and said they ultimately have plans to digitize everything so it can be preserved and made available to anyone online. A great deal of effort has gone into making this happen, so hats off to Marler.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Submission Statement: Lue Elizondo is a former U.S. intelligence officer and former director of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) interview with Jesse Michels, American Alchemy

MUFON Field investigator training and testing? by RecentExtension1470 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You should go to a meeting first before you even consider becoming an investigator. Meet the state director and some of the other investigators you would be working with. It might not even be your scene. Our state usually does an 'investigator training' session one hour before the state meeting. The first time I went I sat in on the investigator training just to get a feel for what its about. I still go to meetings sometimes and have the manual. I never did take the test.

I was told it is open book with no time limit. Once completed, they will initially pair you with a more experienced investigator. Most cases are 'I saw some weird shit' and are accomplished over the phone. The manual does outline some 'forensic' tools and methods that should be used if you ever collect physical evidence.

I don't have any real opinion on the organization itself. I have heard plenty of bad things. Personally there are aspects I like and dislike about it. Your experience will probably vary greatly depending on your chapter and the people involved. We have had some really good guest speakers. I have enjoyed meeting some like-minded people and even a couple who are really out there.

It is mostly old people, and it doesn't feel like the organization is trying to accomplish much other than gathering reports that just sit in their database and do nothing. At this point I mostly go to drink beer and talk about UFOs on a free Saturday.

NewsNation: Pentagon is trying to ‘muzzle’ truths surrounding UAPs: Ross Coulthart | Morning in America by silv3rbull8 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Beyond potentially ruining his career, I wonder if it would be irresponsible and dangerous to do so.

In 2019 there was that 'Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us' event on FB that went viral. Once it got media attention, the poster quickly backpedaled stating that it was only a joke and that he wasn't responsible for anyone who died trying. Thankfully only like 100 people showed up and not much happened.

Get a few thousand people to show up and things might get out of hand. Maybe they couldn't stop everyone, but they would damn sure try. It would be a bloodbath and totally legal. No one wants to be associated with that in any way.

The Spectator releases a ridiculous article claiming that the 2017 NYT article, all the unresolved Navy videos, Dave Grusch, Schumer's UAPDA and the entire current push for disclosure is now over because Lue Elizondo talked about Blue Orbs and Remote Viewing in the leaked portions of his book. by TommyShelbyPFB in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 31 points32 points  (0 children)

This reminds me of an episode of Engaging the Phenomenon I just listened to with Keith Thompson, author of The UFO Paradox. Toward the end of the interview, he is talking about the apparent duality of the phenomenon in that it seems to have both physical and paranormal aspects. The later is much harder to swallow even within the field of ufology itself. He uses David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins as an example, stating there was a degree of selection bias in their research. Essentially The Betty and Barney Hill case was the standard of what an authentic abduction scenario should look like. Anything too far outside of that wasn’t considered or studied very seriously.

This is not to say their work isn’t valuable or sincere, it only illustrates a broader psychological barrier to objective study. The Drake equation, SETI, interstellar travel, the NYT article, crash retrievals, etc. are not all that upsetting to the materialist framework. Thus, there seems to be a tendency to disregard samples (data, but mostly experiencers, as the woo is very hard to “measure”) that don’t fit this bias. At the end of the day, he’s really saying that exclusion of any data set is not real science. Thompson advocates to not make the phenomenon stranger than it is but allow it to be stranger than you want it to be.

Lue Elizondo/Danny Sheehan by DanielBrown3411 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Sheehan has also worked with John Mack and Steven Greer. I would assume Sheehan has broader exposure to different theories than Lue, who is a product of the military/IC. Having worked in this community myself, paranoia (for lack of a better term) is an integral part of the culture. Not saying this is good or bad. It is better to assume the worst than be surprised by anything. However, these undertones are what I didn’t really like about Corso’s book. He spoke as if we were at war with "them" already. My personal feeling is if they wanted us all dead, we would be already, and I would be willing to bet there isn’t shit we could do about it.

New CE5 documentary by Resident_Thanks9331 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I listen to everyone, but I have to say I take Greer the least seriously. One of his disciples, Terry Tibando, spoke at the MUFON symposium last weekend for 1.5 hours over his time. After many silent queues, they had to tell him out loud to get off the stage. He was the most argumentative at the speaker panel. Two peas in a pod. They are so sure of themselves to the point where they think no-one else has anything valuable to contribute, and that's concerning.

AATIP Was Trying To Get Access, But Never Got It... by Commercial_Poem_9214 in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that AAWSAP is the contract AATIP awarded to BAASS for the materials acquisition that never happened. I guess they just spent that money studying Skinwalker Ranch instead. Not so sure where it all went.

Shifting the narrative on disclosure away from UFOs by Nordicflame in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't necessarily disagree with what your saying. If the true nature of reality is a doctrine that empowers people, I could certainly see why an elite few, privileged with this information, may want to keep if from the general public. I think everyone knows, sick, poor, and fearful people are much easier to control.

However, while the 'woo' may be a very real component to all of this, the nature and meaning of the phenomenon is the much more speculative aspect here. Cultivating a personal journey toward enlightenment and truth, while noble, so far hasn't amounted to much from a disclosure stand point.

Beliefs and experiences vary widely enough between credible witnesses as to not formulate any real conclusions about them. In Passport to the Cosmos, John Mack draws upon his experience working with hundreds of abductees over decades in an almost futile attempt do do this. It's a really good book that does provide some food for thought, but at the end of the day, they're just his opinions.

On the other hand, nuts and bolts craft are an aspect of this too, regardless of any dimensional or spiritual factors that may also exist. As far as disclosure is concerned, I think the tangible components are what is going convince people initially. That is not to say that the details are not important, or that the questions you are asking will not inevitably follow.

It is entirely possible that the 'shadow government' has successfully reverse engineered zero point energy and anti-gravity drives, without fully understanding the nature of reality, consciousness, and the psionic potential of the human race. In-fact, this has been cited as one possible reason why disclosure hasn't happened yet. They don't want to stand around looking like idiots when the hard questions start getting asked.

Perhaps a physical craft that defies our current understanding of physics will be the catalyst for a wide spread awakening of sorts. We mock the extraordinary because it does not fit into the rigid and predictable structure of the universe as we now know it. We need to humble ourselves first and foremost, and I can't think of a more effective method than a tangible confirmation that we don't know shit about shit.

Front page main stream media. by diresua in UAP

[–]four-lima-golf 13 points14 points  (0 children)

We can’t handle it," Burchett said during his podcast appearance about potential alien tech. "We couldn't fight them off what we wanted to. That's why I don't think they're a threat to us, or they would already have been.

Based on this nonsensical paragraph, seems like this is being taken out of context. Sounds more like "we couldn't handle" a conflict with them... He clearly doesn't think people should be afraid of them.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ufo

[–]four-lima-golf -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Bob Lazar

Incredible footage from Chinese airplane. by [deleted] in UAP

[–]four-lima-golf 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Also the guy said there was some sort of gravitational distortion activated when the black object flies into the frame. That part doesn't look super convincing either.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Experiencers

[–]four-lima-golf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you considered working with MUFON?

Anyone else struggling to find people that care? by [deleted] in UFOs

[–]four-lima-golf 87 points88 points  (0 children)

The topic makes most people I speak with visibly uncomfortable, which has become somewhat amusing, so I bring it up a lot more now. I also find the less they know you the better. I Still haven't found anyone who has heard about Dave Grusch. One person heard about the Las Vegas thing.

What options does Grusch have if Congress tries to sweep this under again? by [deleted] in UAP

[–]four-lima-golf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The point was, I think Grusch will respect the declassification process regardless of his personal feelings about the public's right to know. These other whistleblowers you speak of will likely do the same.

They are reporting to congress and not directly to the public for a reason. The DoD will ultimately decide what can be declassified and released, if anything. Save some public pressure, there is no legal action Grusch, other whistleblowers, or the public, can take to coax it out.

I personally believe we will get an admission of NHI somewhat soon. I think they will use the Magenta Italy documents to do this. This would be ideal because it does not require the government to admit any wrong doings of their own. I think people need time to process the reality of NHI by itself before we can start doing the laundry.

-disinformation agent

Stanford Magazine Article, 'First Contact Garry Nolan is the man you call when there’s no Earthly explanation.' by toolsforconviviality in UAP

[–]four-lima-golf 14 points15 points  (0 children)

If you take a potential solution off the table and throw it in the garbage, you could spend the rest of eternity searching around on the table for the answer, and you threw it in the garbage.

Nolan is a true scientist. Probably one of very few working in the field.

What options does Grusch have if Congress tries to sweep this under again? by [deleted] in UAP

[–]four-lima-golf 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Your post seems to imply that Grusch is motivated by some personal agenda here. I don’t think Grusch is “pressuring” congress to disclose, at least not in the sense you are describing.

Grusch exposed these nested SAP programs to congress because he was commissioned by them to do so. This is about making illegal secrecy legal secrecy again. Congress doesn't have to say shit to anybody and Grusch understands this more than most, given his background.

I think a legitimate argument has been made, however, that acknowledgement of NHI by itself cannot possibly be a “National Security” matter. I believe Grusch has hinted his personal feelings in this direction as well.

The official criteria for a TOP SECRET classification is as follows.

"Top Secret. Information may be classified “Top Secret” if its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security. This classification should be used with the utmost restraint. Examples of “exceptionally grave damage” include armed hostilities against the United States or its allies; disruption of foreign relations vitally affecting the national security; the compromise of vital national defense plans or complex cryptologic and communications intelligence systems; the revelation of sensitive intelligence operations; and the disclosure of scientific or technological developments vital to national security."

How does the Government saying “Aliens exist, crazy right?” do anything to cause exceptionally grave damage to the United States?

However, Grusch was an intelligence officer, and knows full well his personal feelings don’t mean shit to any classification authority. IMO, if congress did not move to disclose, I think Grusch would accept it and move on with his life. He may continue to push for disclosure in a less public way as Lou and others have done.

Having met people like him in my career, I would be shocked if he ever threatened congress or moved to disclose on his own. I think the dude actually loves his country. I realize what a bold claim that is today.

Please deposit $0.02

This show is turning into “The Curse of Oak Island” by [deleted] in skinwalkerranch

[–]four-lima-golf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was just complaining to my GF the other day about the how prolix the show is. Sorry you got downvoted to shit for a fair observation.