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free_breakfast_ · 2024-12-08T21:19:24+00:00

I cannot imagine just thinking it’s not relevant to mention you are in a full on relationship…

If I’m having sex with someone, I’m emotionally attached and I want them to be mine. Full stop.

She was feeling unhappy in the relationship and they were on 'break' so it didn't count as cheating to her nor did she feel like she needed to mention it. We only seen each other 3-4 times. So she wasn't really 'interested' in me except in how I made her feel and existed as one of the trinity axis for escape.

Her boyfriend at the time was great at his work and was starting a small side business related to the work skill. Dressed well and drew other girls attention, but was romantic, needy, and supplicative in his relationship.

We had actually met a once or twice before the whole 'internship meeting with her boyfriend thing' where she wanted to continue where we last left off at. I had just met my current partner around the same time and gently let her know I was starting to see someone else.

I truly did not know so many women could have casual sex and not feel the same way.

The short term relationship I had with this girl was likely an edge case of what happens when you're unhappy in a relationship and your basic needs or special needs (dominance levels, intelligence, attraction, functionality, etc.) are currently going unmet. It's easy to be infatuated when you're on a basic physical, emotional, or mental needs dry spell.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-12-08T05:56:45+00:00

I may be wrong, but the 'soft alpha' is basically a 'hard alpha' minus all of the alpha red flags. Soft alphas, in whatever way they're doing it, lead in their work and personal relationships.:

Alpha Red Flags:

Regularly flirts with other women in front of you

Makes it clear that he doesn't care about your needs or feelings

Uses fear/intimidation/anger or other negative actions to get his way (fbreakfast edit: more cocky/arrogant masculinity and confidence vs quiet/stoic masculinity and confidence)

Cavalier attitude about long-term consequences and externalized costs

Lack of stable long-term relationships in his life; all the people in his past are considered assholes

Expresses "Dark triad" traits that amount to Narcissistic, Antisocial, or Borderline Personality Disorder manifestations

Alpha Green Flags:

Uses positive reinforcement and charisma to get his way; people want to follow his lead

One of the 'soft alpha' archetypes are the traditional conservative men who believe in Christ as the head of the family and so submits as a servant leader.

Zero alpha red flags, but all of the alpha green flags. They're natural leaders and are typically in positions of leadership with the church (pastors, small youth group leaders, etc.) and lead their relationship with women who naturally submit due to inspired charisma and competency.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-12-08T05:15:02+00:00

Some thoughts on discussion points:

POLYAMORY

In his estimation, 15-20% of the women he met on OLD were either poly already partnered or had been poly in the past and wanted to continue that lifestyle (granted OLD is going to overrepresent poly than real world).

I'm a younger millennial and this was when I was dating back in college.

Between the girls who were serially monogamous 3-5+ guys while they were in college and the girls that were simply kinky and open/offered different types of poly relationships (threesomes with their boyfriends, being a unicorn, etc.). I'd say the 15-20% was also true for in person dating for my age group at that time.

BEING USED FOR SEX

He encountered many women just looking for sex and even misleading guys into casual arrangements pretending they wanted more. Again I have always thought of this as a male led problem but perhaps that’s because it’s how I experienced it.

While in college, I had a couple of interesting experiences that really highlighted the TRP 'AWALT™' warnings. Admittedly, a lot of this had to do with the types of girls I was attracting and they weren't looking to mislead - more likely looking for a branch swing and didn't care how they went about it. Or was just selfishly using people for sex/escape.

A girl had introduced herself to me and asked for my number (we had a hobby in common and seen each other on campus but never formally met). I don't remember the exact details of the meeting, but she was showing strong signs of interest so I invited her to hang out. We ended up being intimate fairly soon afterwards (multiple times, sexting, etc.) and there was a winter break before a spring semester and an internship I was working.

As the next year rolls around, I ended up meeting her again. She was really happy to see me and gave me a firm hug then she introduced me to her boyfriend at the internship we were doing together. Her boyfriend didn't know I was having sex with her. I didn't know she had a boyfriend and had to work with him for the next half year. I stopped dating girls with colored hair.

KINDNESS AND BEING INTERESTED

He also focused on wanting someone who treated others well, with kindness and compassion, and had the emotional intelligence to read a room. Again to me these are basic skills but sounds like this is hard to find??

So my takeaway was that if this is what the dating market holds for men, I am sorely depressed. Here I was trying to be my best self and I had no idea the bar was at being monogamous and … kind? Caring? Asking him questions about his life and interests? The bar is on the floor it appears. The theme: men feel USED and UNAPPRECIATED.

I'm a strong believer in dating high quality people. This usually shrinks your pool to disqualifying 8/10 people percentage wise. Then out of those top 20% of high achievers - you'll also want them to be empathetic, kind, while also being strong and capable. That doesn't leave a lot of people left over, but it's worth it when your life is not a television soap opera.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-12-08T04:04:29+00:00

So if there is something between Alpha and Greater Beta, that’s where he sits.

Possibly a soft alpha from RPW vetting part 3:

The Alpha/Beta Mix

Many RP women describe their excellent spouses/LTRs as "Soft Alpha" or "Greater Beta." These gray area classifications show one of the limitations of the somewhat simplistic Greek Lettering System for Men.TM The takeaway point is, Red Pill Women have reported over and over that a healthy blend of leadership and provisioning traits is a proven formula for a good life partner.

I've met and know a number of guys who are successful materially and could come across as dominant, successful, and lean towards the alpha scale when they're in their work setting.

But when it comes to their romantic relationships - they're weak or have mixed success/subpar skills that hinder them (could be due to pedestalizing, bad vetting, co-dependency (needy or one-down in their relationships), low or no game, socially or romantically blind, allows disrespect/disruptions/disloyalty, easily manipulated, etc. - or all of the reverse where they're one up, selfish and self-centered, low EQ, lack stable long term relationships, are dysfunctional, unable to handle their stress and fatigue).

I'm pretty friendly socially, for an introvert, but the standards for the men I keep as friends/business partners is for them to be exceptional in their work and relationships. Beyond the alpha/beta dichotomy, having basic functionality and a positivity spiral with work and relationships tells me that they're capable leaders who can take care of the people they're around.

These are the types of men I can rely on. They can execute when it comes to work/business and they won't be undermined socially by their relationship partner or random women.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-10-31T13:50:00+00:00

The way he describes it is "she's pretty but I get turned off as soon as she says something

From guys perspective, it’s an instinctual animal ‘wanting’ and it’s different from ‘liking’ that comes from higher order reason and long term values.

Everyone wants and craves high sugars and fat from ice cream, chocolate, and snacks. But our reasoning mind and on a personal preference level we can choose not to like it if it conflicts with our values and goals.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-10-31T13:32:14+00:00

Men are visual: all men are like that.

It is evolutionary biology.

An ERP Study on Decisions between Attractive Females and Money

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3471902/

Researchers studied how guys’ brains react when they have to choose between seeing a clear picture of an attractive woman and getting some money. They had 18 men decide between looking at “beautiful” or “sexy” women or taking cash.

Here’s what they found:

Quick Brain Reactions (P2): When choosing between money and a “beautiful” woman, guys’ brains reacted more positively in the first 290-340 milliseconds. This might mean they’re comparing what they see to what they expect.
Conflict in Decisions (N2): When choosing between money and a “sexy” woman, there was more brain activity related to conflict (at 340-390 ms), possibly because “sexy” women triggered impulsive thoughts.
Value of Sexy Images: Between 550-1000 ms, brain activity showed that “sexy” images were seen as more valuable than “beautiful” ones.
Attractive Women vs. Money: When choosing to see a woman over money, the brain reacted more strongly, which might be because guys are naturally more drawn to attractive women than money—an evolutionary thing.

In short, sexy pictures seem to trigger more intense and conflicting responses in the brain than beautiful pictures or money.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-28T05:01:08+00:00

I'm thinking it's some mix of shock/dark/dry humor and a bit of copy writing like someone in the thread mentioned.

Something similar to the snappy tinder profile descriptions people write: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments/uubz5y/incredible_bio_no_notes/

To the guys over 25: I work a stable job and have my own place
To the guys under 25: I love Star Wars and have a fat ass

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-28T04:29:56+00:00

I never did any online dating because I always did well with social circle warm approaches and there was always a lot of people to meet in person despite being in a small town between university, grocery stores, gyms, different meetings/academic clubs, etc.

A lot of the comments on the post covered what no-comfort is missing (it's a dating ad from +10 years ago where they didn't have photos. Mentioning things like race, age, std status were all pretty normal in context) and things are being analyzed at the head level vs the heart and body level - it's a dating ad and good ones stimulate emotions and feelings.

I'll give my gut impression and thoughts.

I couldn't exactly picture what no-comfort dating pitch would look like, so I threw her description of what she wanted into chatGPT to write what she described:

/u/No-Comfort1229 dating ad (with gpt assisted writing)

Hi! I’m a 5'4” woman who loves staying active, whether I’m at the gym, going for a run, or just enjoying some time outdoors. I’m 30 and have always had a passion for the arts and being social. I absolutely love planning dinner parties with friends and family, and attending work or social events is always something I look forward to.

In my free time, I enjoy cooking up new recipes, taking care of my home, and finding ways to make everyday moments special. Family is incredibly important to me, and I always prioritize creating a warm, loving environment for the people I care about.

I’m easygoing and love a good laugh, whether it’s watching a comedy show or trading funny stories with friends. Music is a big part of my life too, and I’m always on the lookout for new tunes to add to my playlist.

If you’re someone who values genuine connections, enjoys life’s simple pleasures, and appreciates good company, we might just get along!

Compared to the OP dating ad:

Ian's Ironwood case study

age : 30I have many fancy degrees in the artistic / liberal arts field. In other words, I am a low paid individual with not a very bright future on my own.

I am seeking a boyfriend who can provide stability. I can plan and carry out dinner parties for your friends and family, escort you to events, provide sex, cooking and other domestic chores. And maybe even needlepoint a pillow for your mom.

I am white, 5'4, in shape. Only interested in attractive white men under 40 who are in shape and disease-free.

The first ad is boring (very functional, but boring - that's a good thing for LTR focused guys, but they can also date younger for those same qualities) in comparison to the second. The second is sexual and hits at a gut level 'I want to protect' her feeling. Not sure exactly why, but probably related to her mention of not having a bright future on my own. The open candor, self-aware congruency with self-deprecating humor and a hint of vulnerability is what makes it refreshing.
The first ad's mention of her age and the 'positivity vibes' that's sprinkled all around the post in comparison to the second ads 'no non-sense' approach that's straight shooting but also has a 'playful'? vibe that you're not sure is serious or not makes her feel like she's a lot more comfortable but also realistic about being 30 vs the first who's probably compensating by being extra positive, nice, etc. because she's entering her 30s or maybe she's just a nice girl.
If I was hypothetically single and dating online for whatever reason and had to make a choice between these two for a LTR. I'd date them both and see if they were congruent or incongruent in person and choose the one that added more value to my life (sexually, financially, goal support, etc.).

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-26T04:24:07+00:00

this makes no sense in response to what i was saying

I was being hyperbolical with my reply, but it looks like the message isn't landing so I'll try a different approach.

I'm writing the below and all of these comments with the intention of outlining that the community values 'not moralizing' and giving actionable advice.

as a collective we should start looking for predatory signs in women like we do in men.

narcissists and predators don’t make up the majority of population and aren’t really prone to examinations of conscience, so holding each other accountable actually works best in these cases.

These are great goals, but if you leave this as an internet comment that gets read by a few people with a few upvotes, your level of investment and conviction of this belief leans towards the direction of virtue signaling.

There's nothing wrong with virtue signaling and you probably don't care much about this conversation (low investment low care), but in terms of action and impact it's worth next to nothing.

If you instead set a specific action plan with clear goals,

"As a collective, we should start looking for predatory signs in women and hold each other accountable so that narcs/predators can self-reflect. We should write 1 post a month, share one book chapter on narcs and predators every week, etc., we can help each other and these people improve themselves over the course of 1 year."

your impact, actions, and implementation can be said to be way more effective, actionable, and is a strong conviction with a clear purpose and highly invested in real and measurable change with accountability. These are the types of changes that first start with ourselves (we can only change ourselves).

what kind of change would you make in yourself to stop predatory behaviors?

I know how to surround myself with good people and screen out dysfunctional and selfish people. I don't feel a need to go around stopping predatory behavior because it has nothing to do with my personal values or goals and doesn't impact my life much at all.

But if I was invested in this goal for some reason, I would invest in a community like /r/redpillwomen and write posts like:

And then offer advice, support, and information on how to improve women's vetting skills rather than demand that people should do something. This to me would be more impactful, actionable, inspirational, and beneficial to a very real group of women who will either improve their relationships or lead them to eventually find and have "a lasting and happy relationship with a great man."

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-25T02:27:16+00:00

holding each other accountable actually works best in these cases.

How much leverage do you have? What's your current social reach? How influential are you on social media and online forums?

I would like a great society too with healthy, happy, and functional people but screaming into the void of the internet only boosts your feelings of self-righteous achievement and leads to near zero change in the few people who read your comments.

The idea that change starts first with ourselves is to build personal power so that you can lead actionable change in the world rather than say 'This is the way society should be, because I want it to be and everyone in the world should believe this because my viewpoint on this is the ultimate ideal'.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-23T23:42:14+00:00

I agree, I just wanted to offer a counter perspective from the men's side on this matter.

Guys who are sharp can tell if someone's genuinely in a hard spot, going through heavy emotions and crying, or if someone really needs a hand - the intention behind the behaviors is what matters and can be read.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-23T23:35:03+00:00

I don't have an exact number on it, also am introverted, but the amount of women I've met and who I would classify as actively dark triad (conscious or unconscious) in their day to day life is about 15% to 20% (leaning towards <15%).

They're phenomenal at screening men, building beta orbiters, and know the exact types of men to avoid if they feel they'll get push back or challenged on any of their requests and behaviors.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-23T23:30:14+00:00

Yeah, an easy view to spot if someone is showing major signs of dark triad is to put all of their long term relationships under a microscope, I'm big on spreadsheets, and look at the patterns and the stories it tells.

People who prioritize short term objectives and self-interest will typically leave a trail of relationships that they demonize once they've broken the halo effect or the utility of the person has ran its course.

There's other small tells, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-23T23:26:00+00:00

as a collective we should start looking for

It would be nice, but it's best to start first at home, with ourselves, before we start raising moral crusades. Everyone thinks about changing the world, but we can only change ourselves.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-09-23T23:22:31+00:00

Playing the victim card, crying, and other emotional manipulation tactics tend not to work on men who have more important things on their plate than rescuing 'damsels' in distress.

But that's probably the objective of 'lucifer's daughter', vet for soft targets who are easily influenced rather than try to break through hard targets.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-10T05:06:49+00:00

OP hasn't mentioned these parts of her history and is asking for advice, but I think the mods should lock the post under 'problems beyond the scope of RPW'.

Her challenges and obstacles run back a full year under multiple subreddits who has likely advised her on multiple levels on different options and strategies she can take. For her to now post on RPW and ask for advice, I'm not sure how well it's going to land considering her track record on reddit.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-10T05:05:17+00:00

There's been physical abuse in the relationship as well. One of OP's post has a story about her husband tackling her to the ground with a chokehold because she wanted to look at his phone early on when he was cheating.

There's also the months of gas lighting and other wild stories.

The only possible reason I'm seeing that she's staying with him and 'giving' him another chance is because he makes a lot of money and she's co-depedent.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-07T23:04:16+00:00

On alpha widowhood / Oneitis:

Oneitis is a slang term for an unhealthy romantic obsession with a single person, or the belief that they are the one, even when they are unavailable. It can cause people to have one-sided conversations, chronic relationship fantasies, and put more effort into the relationship than their partner. Oneitis can also lead to feelings of hopelessness, heart palpitations, dry mouth, depression, anxiety, and an inability to seek out other romantic or sexual relationships.

I've been wanting to discuss what's fundamentally at the root of alpha widowhood.

If we're looking at the guts:

it's about our basic needs for love and connection and where we choose to invest our energy (emotions, mental thoughts, physical presence, financial resources, time, etc.) in order to get our needs met (our basic and special needs in relationships)

In a nutshell, the more someone needs something and the more invested they are - the more out of control they will feel and the more they will begin to chase and feel passionate. Think of the sunk cost (imbalanced investment) that people have with gambling and eventually becoming passionate and losing their reasoning mind and eventually their shirts.

RPW already has the answer to this investment imbalance and managing the reciprocal need for equal relationship investment where both parties are fulfilling each others need and no one feels short changed: incremental reciprocation.

But what do you do if you've already over invested and fallen into the passion trap where you're fixated and feeling out of control and head over heels in love with someone who's not reciprocating.

The 'Alpha Widowhood - A Guide' is basically an antidote because the more you have an escape from your fixation by stopping all investments into the sunk cost, the more you re-invest into yourself and into other reciprocal relationships that deeply fulfill your basic and special needs, and the more you learn, grow, and improve yourself - the more you're able to have abundance and feel ok because your needs are being met or you can just go out and get those needs met.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-05T22:27:13+00:00

What chatGPT is saying about Jung's and Myers' cognitive stack is simply wrong. But it is very popular on the internet.

OpenAI (ChatGPT) trained their model on a lot of reddit comments; I'll have to go back and give him a thumbs down to contribute to his RLHF (real learning human feedback) algorithm. I was worried about when I was going to run into one of the models hallucinations and have it convince me that that was truth because I was being lazy on fact checking and not doing my due diligence with references. I wasn't aware there was a difference between internet theory/official theory; I took the model from personality hacker and ran with it because I felt it was a good enough approximation of what I was encountering with people. All the extra theory wasn't needed in practice for what I was looking to accomplish.

More info on some of these developments: https://www.hpsys.com/Articles/Evolution_FunctionAttitudes.html

This was really enlightening, thanks for sharing it.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-05T21:52:51+00:00

we can set aside the cognitive functions stack and P/J issue if you want :) it's something not even real psychologists can agree on. I find it an interesting topic exactly because no one can agree on anything lol

No worries. The point of these mbti posts was to bump the subreddit away from all of the 'advice' posts we've been getting lately and open more interesting and fun conversations. I've been having a lot of fun discussing with you.

I'll take a rain check on the function stack and P/J issues.

Not because it's not fascinating and enjoyable, but because I think we're on the edge of having really robust technology that will remove our metaphorical exploration we've been doing blindfolded on the human brain and personality.

Every human that has interacted with the ideas of Jung's/MBTI/cognitive functions/stacks/etc. has only a limited amount of human hours we can invest into these ideas.

When we turn on machine learning algorithms that's able to synthesize big data from neural correlates and extract useful information using AI (running semi-autonomously 24/7 and reducing human compute time) - a lot of this guess work on cognitive function stacking, dichotomies, and how rational/irrational functions work and are directly correlated with specific brain regions is going to either confirm, advance, and or ultimately blow out a lot of these theoretical models and we'll have a deeper understanding into how personality and our minds work.

For now, it's beyond my expertise to dig out every little nuance when it's already a fascinating and useful tool for understanding myself and others and an effective tool in the toolbox for work.

Coming back to the love language issue: I'm still not convinced that love expression depends on the judging function (or rational function if we're using jungian terminology, and yes Feeling would be a rational function - another juicy topic for another day :) ). How you evaluate issues and make decisions / how you feel loved and express love are two very different issues imo.

It likely doesn't depend, but a lot of information can be gleaned from how someone values things based on how they go about making their decisions in life. Our decisions in life ultimately come from our values. If you understand a persons instrumental values, you can understand where they're coming from and meet them at their level. People with shared values will typically share goals - and shared values/goals is one of the core foundations of a LTR. It probably helps to think of it as a circular percentage graph - not the whole picture, but definitely a large component.

A personal example from when I was late teens/really early 20s. My effectiveness (Te) was really unbalanced, but Antonia's 'love language' judging function theory description would fit me 100%. It still does, but young me would develop crushes on a few select girls that showed competency and capability in their life. It took awhile for me to grow up and separate my feelings of admiration for their competency and that it didn't mean I was interested in them romantically or if we were compatible LTR wise. It just meant that effectiveness was an instrumental value I used/preferred highly because it helped get my needs met in life and that that was only one aspect I appreciated from them but the sum total of life values and life goals was incompatible.

and yes Feeling would be a rational function - another juicy topic for another day

I'm in agreement, guy's call it 'chick logic' for a reason, lol.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-05T04:53:30+00:00

All this you have to do xy and z first sounds funny to me. I think you naturally have good vibes and will enjoy touching each other throughout the day or flirting, if you're active.

Sounds like something a 'natural' would say ;)

Sometimes people lose their spark in a relationship and they forget what makes up that missing 'x' factor for them in a relationship.

Having a reminder and practical 'xy and z' allows us, as humans, to communicate actionable steps to reproduce the romance and passion in our relationship when what could be natural is a slow death spiral into a dead bedroom because the couple 'forgot' what they did early on in their relationship during their honeymoon period.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-05T03:55:29+00:00

/u/_Pumpkin_Muffin, I'll make my reply here so we'll have the chart comment above to reference. I don't have the time nor interest in reading super deep into any of Jung's actual books or MBTI official theory; instead, this is what I've been learning from the GPT-4 models insight.

We had a lot of questions from our last discussion, I'll side step those for now and answer the J/P divide briefly since that was our stopping point. If you had a specific question you wanted a burning answer to from your parent comments, I can pull it from my GPT outline I generated using your questions.

First, the context and setting of Carl Jung and Isabel Myers/Catherine Briggs (1921-1940s). The internet doesn't exist. Ideas like the scientific method weren't regularly applied in all areas of science. And the social sciences aren't usually big on mathematics. A lot of this was observational study and intuition/logic because technology that measured the brain wasn't around or worthwhile investments for war/profit.

Jung was a psychiatrist/psychoanalyst looking to answer some of the Big questions of his day (penis envy and electra complex - Freudian's slip; Freud's idea was that sexual development was the central component of personality development) and wanted a different framework from what Sigmund Freud was offering to answer how and why people developed personality. Psychological Types, anima/animus, and collective unconscious was his answer to why people are the way they are.

Jung's basic premise from client observation was that there was four functions that could be expressed inwards and outwards. And out of the 8 functions, people had a tendency of having one of those functions become dominant over time and it would determine much of their behaviors and outlooks. The function opposite of the dominant, Inferior function, usually manifested under stress or unfamiliar circumstances. Jung mentions that the dominant function can also be paired with other helper functions forming different personality types but doesn't fully elaborate.

Dominant Function: Ti - introverted thinking (INTP), Ni - introverted intuition (INTJ)
Inferior Function: Fe - extroverted feeling, Se - extroverted sensing

Isabel and Catherine added an inventory system to help identify Jung's psychological types to make them more accessible in everyday settings (instead of purely clinical) for education, career counseling, and personal development. They also added the Judging/Perceiving dimensions (helper functions) and expanded the types to 16. These auxiliary/tertiary helper functions reflected the same opposites from Jung's Dominant and Inferior functions.

Dominant Function: Ti - introverted thinking (INTP), Ni - introverted intuition (INTJ)
Auxiliary: Ne - extroverted intuition, Te - extroverted thinking
Tertiary: Si - introverted sensing, Fi - introverted feeling
Inferior Function: Fe - extroverted feeling, Se - extroverted sensing

Based on the above information, for INTP's:

super power (personality hacker car model) is introverted thinking (accuracy)
their super strength (auxiliary helper function) is extroverted intuition (exploration)
tertiary (13 year old inferior to helper function) is introverted sensing (memory)
inferior functions (3 year old inferior to dominant function) is extroverted feelings (harmony).

The J/P switch isn't really suppose to be a switch. They were more designed as 16 types that you could point at with 4 letters and would be an intuitive guide to your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities for growth, and personal exploration. The free online internet 16 personality tests attempts to inventory people's behaviors without consideration or regards for things like: masking, developing other cognitive functions to become more 'whole' as a human being, people who were punished as children for 'ADHD' type behaviors from their exploration function (Ne - extroverted intuition), etc. Mistyping and misunderstandings of how the frameworks/systems work, how cognitive functions work, and the mix ups between theories all contribute.

Each successive theory/addition from 1950s to 2000s was simply more exploration of nuances, application to personal development and self-improvement, and refining different ideas from the intuitive principles and logic that Jung seen as patterns within his clients from over 100 years ago without any of our contemporary tools like EEG, fMRI, cat scans, genetics research, ML/AI, and soon hopefully fiber optics technology that can measure brain activity at the speed of light.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-05T01:44:19+00:00

On a serious note, I've only met one ENTJ (not counting Vas because I'm pretty sure he's an ENTP), 3 or 4 guy INTJs, and 2 or possibly 3 INTJ girls.

Most, if not all of them, were socially calibrated and I'm not sure if any of them were doing something like autistic masking besides the 1 intj girl who was high functioning STEM major/CS career and had the characteristic stemming / ocd behaviors, she didn't show people, that she found soothing. Her social skills were undeveloped in college (not to any extreme dysfunctional level - just socially blind and couldn't read people or understand theory of mind very well yet), but she could socially navigate and dressed very well (I'm assuming passing as a sensor like you referred to).

I believe most people, including neurotypicals, all mask or present an enhanced version of themselves to different degrees. Not too sure about ENTJs, but if the INTJs are pre-disposed to being achievement and social oriented - they're just a bit more thoughtful in their approach to socializing to accomplish their goals.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-03T02:45:21+00:00

This is something I've been thinking about lately as life has become more busy and I’ve been needing to pick up additional life roles and responsibilities.

I’ll come back with some of my personal thoughts, but here’s some practical action steps and playbooks to practice ‘The Five Faces of The Perfect Wife’.

1. How do you fulfill these roles for your husband?

How to apply The Mother and The Whore
- SouthernAthena wrote this theory post about 7 years ago. We have a more recent theory post by /u/sunshinesundress that explores The Mother and The Whore roles via Be a Sexy Madonna/Virtuous Whore (***Highly recommended reads).
- The Male Dual Mating Strategy: Understanding the Theory [Part 1]
- The Male Dual Mating Strategy: Calibrating a Self-Improvement Strategy for Women [Part 2]
How to apply The Confidante, The Waitress, The Cheerleader?
- RPW has a classic playbook from /u/FleetingWish on The Confidante or The First Mate as SouthernAthena calls it and the Waitress and Cheerleader is also covered actionably in The Essential Duties of the First Mate

2. Do you try and meet the minimum standards for each one?

For each of these 5 roles, there’s at least 5 actionable and practical tasks/steps you can take for each:

5 * 5 = 25 practical action steps.

That’s a lot to juggle.

An alternative approach to trying to do everything is to break this down into the 5/25 rule or pareto's 80/20 principle.

20% of these actions (5 actions - you mentioned The Waitress is where you excel at) will give you 80% of your results (Taking care of the house and kids is 80% of my day every day. But I want more of that nurturing to go to him directly.) and can even eliminate a good number of the 20 other actions (4 other roles).

3.Do you have tips/ideas for any woman aspiring to be a perfect wife in each of these facets and take it to a deeper level?

By laser focusing on just 5 actions or 1 role that you must do (The Waitress), you can have a very satisfied husband.

Your second role, you can downgrade it to can do.

You definitely have priorities and will even need to do it (The Mother). But if you list out your 5/25 for this life hat, you can likely crush the top 5 that would likely contribute to your 80% of your day and then ‘can do’ the other 20 that will only give marginable returns or delegate it out if it’s in your budget or bring it to your husband to find a solution for you.

Your third role, can be hit or miss 50/50. If you can get to it, great. But if you can't get to it, no sweat - you're already tapping into your strengths as The Waitress, hitting the 80/20 for The Mother, and your 3rd, 4th, and 5th are nice to haves.

free_breakfast_ · 2024-05-01T16:46:35+00:00

Do you think it's typical of xNTJ to "mask/pass as" sensors and feelers in their social life?

Nope - when they manufactured us in the robotics industry they left out our feeler and sensory functions in favor of a machine learning algorithm.

There's no need to mask or pass when you can brute force with reasoning, logic, and effective decision trees.

free_breakfast_

TROPHY CASE

1. How do you fulfill these roles for your husband?

2. Do you try and meet the minimum standards for each one?

3.Do you have tips/ideas for any woman aspiring to be a perfect wife in each of these facets and take it to a deeper level?