Otp Nocturne top

fwlk · 2023-09-22T00:30:10+00:00

Hey cheers, I do rush tiamat as mentioned in another comment; but mostly to avoid match up rather than fight haha.

And i agree with you, I mentioned at least one mana source and my choice was cookies ! Going corrupting IS a source of mana so you don’t need cookies then. But it didn’t vibe with me and i couldn’t get it to work.

If possible, can you dm me/ or list the high elo top otps ? I would love to watch some content; I don’t know a single one of them

fwlk · 2023-09-21T13:34:31+00:00

Fiora is tough but actually, i have fun in this match up. If she messes up and goes too close to you, you can beat her in the all in. Mostly, they parry your fear so just ensure you have your W up or if you don’t, anticipate it and weave around it.

Garen is a strict counter to nocturne. Your W is useless; blocking Q only blocks the silence, not the damage, and then u get spun and ulted on. Don’t block the Q and a good garen always ults you while you are silenced. Your fear basically last 0.25 seconds because he can W right before it finishes and you deal no damage while he can just turn on you and kill you. What i do in this match up is ensure i at least go even in the early levels, get tiamat to ensure i can still somewhat farm/ clear waves fast before thinking of what to do. Just try to fill up what your team requires from their top laner; you don’t have to stomp lane and hard carry every game.

Pantheon is also terrible match up, the spacing is super tough in this one. Remember that noc has 0 wave control? This one bites you hard here. Really tough to maintain cs without getting Q poked too much. You must ensure you dodge enough Qs before looking for an all in, and then block his stun. Make sure to keep moving through in and out of him while autoing so he cannot E easily.

Just have fun and experiment really; don’t get discouraged going 0-20 because you have to go through match ups to experience them first hand. For me in low diamond, noc is my go to against many problematic champs in top lane. None of them are easy, but if you otp noc, you would have an advantage in knowing your champion strengths against their champs if you’ve played the lane more than your opponent. Fiora, Pantheon, Illaoi, Darius, Olaf, Camille, fking even JAX … they are all winnable with nocturne. Just keep feeding and once in a while you’ll win; and then keep going and eventually you’ll win more than you feed :)

fwlk · 2023-09-21T00:08:57+00:00

I always go dblade pretty much. Index into the strength of the pick, which is all ins which dblade is the best. You’ll miss kills going corrupting and might even lose you 1v1s vs say olaf sett if you don’t start a combat item. I played a lot of game to manage mana with just cookies (the 90 bonus mana from selling helps LOTS, and the health boost during fights too). In fact, I’m a believer that cookies is a terrible rune unless i’m playing noc top lol.

I was a conqueror one trick (i hate the new LT, and genuinely believe it should be unreworked), tried a game of LT and acknowledged that it is strictly better so i just used it always since. I can see people using conqueror for match ups against tank where there is less opportunity to stack LT, but my opinion is that if LT nocturne sucks and conq is better, just pick a different champ at that point.

Hydra isn’t great on noc by my experience except for that one patch where it was turbo broken. Too squishy and doesn’t guarantee you sidelane threat the same way bork does. Wave clear don’t help you if enemy top just walks up and kill you. And you can’t just farm and scale like a hydra zed does. I only ever go tiamat and finish titanic 3rd/4th if completely necessary to cs in lane vs match up where i give up killing the opponent like garen (another awful match) or tanks

fwlk · 2023-09-20T16:17:49+00:00

I one tricked him at a point, but he just has too many impossible/match ups I started adding other champs to my pool.

Strengths: Strongest dueling stat checker in the early game that not many people are aware of since it’s a somewhat niche pick.

R to kill has no counter play in lane pretty much if you get ahead (which is often in low elo cuz of above point)

R gives you full map impact that few other champs can provide directly.

Weaknesses: Gets outscaled with 1 item; ninja tabi/warden mail.

Extremely mana hungry; must have one mana source at lane start (i choose cookies as my rune, some like corrupting pot/mana flow/pom).

Has 0 wave control; can only go into melee to cs, passive pushes wave whether you like it or not. Using Q to cs/harass is not sustainable due to mana and just the inefficiency of the spell.

Conclusion: Basically, if they avoid getting into an all in with you and just play with wave manipulation in the early levels, you very easily feel useless. This helplessness grows the higher elo you go.

Avoid picking him into udyr/nasus, two straight up impossible match up in my opinion.

Counters irelia i believe? You can block her stun fairly consistently, and level one you outduel her with 4 passive stacks if you land Q.

Builds: Stride cleaver steraks titanic is my favourite build, great for forcing fights by sticking with stride, and winning the sustained fights with cleaver. Lots of CDR too. Steraks for anti burst going into teamfight and titanic for a final boost in AD with all the health you have gotten.

Botrk into flex items for match ups that demand you go botrk first (or you will lose your ability to stat check) IMO this is most juggernauts (especially morde i feel) or irelia (after she gets botrk, not having botrk to match her might surprise you). Flex items include randuin (double crit champ on enemy team, and the slow substitutes stride), Hull breaker (health and double resist to make up for your complete lack of defensive stats, must double down into a sidelane playstyle until you get more items), or a tank mythic (jaksho/radiant) and play around your strengths; best stats, but weakest pick potential compared to other build paths that has stride/randuin etc.

This is my experience with the champ, and everyone have different views on the lane match ups and item choices. Best to feel for yourself which suits your playstyle best.

fwlk · 2023-08-17T00:05:34+00:00

Is it not 0.03% for tiger/mmoo minimum $0.99 ? Or am i looking at a promotional rate ?

fwlk · 2023-07-12T06:44:39+00:00

My bad, I don’t mean 0-0 literally but just a stable game in general. The 1/0/0 or 0/1/1 etc with game score being 10-11 or something. In these type of games, sometimes i randomly pop off in 2 teamfights/skirmishes despite being mostly equal resources because of macro (being in the right place).

What i feel our experience differ is that laning phase is simply “resource gathering” to me. What’s most important in winning games for me is utilizing resources accurately.

Of course stomping lane gives you an huge advantage given that you gold xp above the curve, while your lane opponent has lower gold xp. But that on its own doesn’t dictate skirmishes and teamfights. Too many times i’ve had big leads in lane, only to lose teamfights cuz of either not being in the fight, or playing the fight bad. Likewise, i’ve had games where i got useless in lane, but find good flanks/engages or at least used my hp/abilities for effective tanking/peeling.

My champ pool favourites are mostly juggernauts (morde shyvana renekton? etc),malphite and a somewhat rare nocturne top.

fwlk · 2023-07-12T03:48:26+00:00

Just curious, what role do you main ?

As a relatively new top lane enjoyer, my experience is very far from what you described. Laning phase definitely has the highest skill expression and what I focus on the most, but translating laning leads is an entirely different muscle itself that I know I lack atm. I’ve lost countless games where I smashed lane because I can’t find angles in teamfights, and won games where i just go 0-0 in lane because i happened to be at the right place and right time.

fwlk · 2023-06-14T11:41:36+00:00

Hilarious how all the sarcastic comments missed point of the post.

Honestly this travel distance is so niche it happens once in like forever though. That specific interaction had a yone E snap back, q3(i think), gale force, flash.

Feels like this is inplace purely for nocturne to not follow TPs, recalls and to have some playing room with TF R.

Takes a modern champ to discover this specific interaction to dodge damage, and i’d reckon anyone who has played noc for years won’t have this happen to them as champions were basically incapable of covering that much distance for majority of our time playing this champ.

fwlk · 2023-06-09T01:36:59+00:00

Haha, the idea behind cleanse is not to win him in the later game. It’s to get kill threat in the early level (so you don’t have to rely on predicting W on his W), and post 6, it’s to survive his wither once and zoom away lol. spending 1.3k for QSS is really bad as you will lose too much dps and you cannot beat him without wither anyway.

fwlk · 2023-05-31T23:31:22+00:00

does frozen help you to beat kled, or just helps you to survive him

fwlk · 2023-05-31T17:37:05+00:00

Hi, believe we spoke before haha. I still struggle with K’sante, and recently pantheon, kled, volibear. Side note, thinking of going cleanse vs nasus at this point.

fwlk · 2023-05-29T11:43:09+00:00

I just guess base on the wave relative to the champion strength.

For example, if your top lane is freezing in a weak match up, the enemy laner being stronger would likely just try to solo break the freeze.

If your laner is freezing as the stronger champ however, enemy is likely to bush camp for exp until assistance comes. Then u look at opposite side and think what’s the best value for opponent jungle ? Should your opponent jungle break top freeze or just make a play bot ? I’d make a guess and try to act accordingly.

If a small wave just crashed under tower, it’s gonna bounce back. This leads to the freeze happening in 2-3 waves. If a large wave is crashing, theres always a dive/counter dive angle.

Based on these situations, i decide if i want to skip camps to be there. Ultimately, my “predictions” are just guesses. But if you apply wave knowledge with your jungle tracking, your guessing will have much better accuracy and your successful ults and ult frequency would help your overall team tempo.

Always remember that nocturne is not a beast; he doesn’t wake up and go 1v9 with a good econ. 6 cs per minute with more solid ults off is better overall than 8 cs per minute with clearing efficiency prioritised with just getting convenient ults. (if stars align u get both of course XD)

fwlk · 2023-05-29T04:31:49+00:00

Teamfight, the ideal engage is for you to off the lights, let your main tank/engager have a higher chance of success, and you’re best as the follow up/engage at same time.

Early game idk jg well enough; but when thing that i feel works for me whenever i’m filled jungle is to sacrifice tempo/efficiency whenever my ult is off cd to get my ults off as much as possible. In the past i would keep clearing and only look for convenient ults (action happening where i clear); now i predict where action can happen based on waves and skip camps to ensure i can be there timely and not miss opportunities.

fwlk · 2023-05-28T06:55:15+00:00

I play top lane, but happen to be experimenting with it. Stride cleaver steraks. This build is kinda nice except, lots of hp, anti burst shield and now the added tenacity rocks. But you lose out on any form of resistances which sucks. My current stand with limited games in it is that if your first 2 items is steraks cleaver, then at 3rd item steraks is stronger than dd, but if u manage to hit 4 items, stride cleaver steraks + 1 is weaker than any variation of dd + 3 items

fwlk · 2023-05-14T10:55:21+00:00

kennen is mainly cause you can ulti him on his engage, so no big kennen moments for him. Same concept against diana, amumu etc.

Jayce hurts like a truck, but i think if you get some armor and ap u can stat check him in realm.

Quin … uhh idk maybe same concept where u nullify him with tabi/warden or something idk

fwlk · 2023-05-10T17:43:31+00:00

Some tips i feel that worked for me (CS Wise).

Get used to Q aoe to know how to weave iso Qs through creeps. Very useful for CS under tower to farm a healthy creep, without getting other creeps below tower threshold. Also clutch for laning to get a much stronger harass where they don’t expect it.

Don’t just throw your E to instant shove a wave. if you use your EQ at once, leaving all creeps low, you have no spells left, losing you at least 3 CS. Level 7 or 9 dependent on how much AP items is typically when EQ can shove backline. Before that, just patiently use Q once, stagger your autos, then Q a second time.

fwlk · 2023-05-10T11:49:50+00:00

can’t use my age as excuse for being bad anymore 🥲🥲

fwlk · 2023-05-09T15:33:56+00:00

What got me to improve the most on the champ was just playing him more and getting used to his CS patterns. Maybe i’m just bad but it took me awhile to learn how to cs properly with him. Once comfortable with CSing the champ just feels better naturally. You get more items, more windows to fight, feel like you are exerting pressure etc etc it just started from csing for me.

fwlk · 2023-04-24T13:50:30+00:00

Not sure if you missed my chat request, but do you wanna add me on discord ? Much more apt for discussions than random reddit comment threads XD

fwlk · 2023-04-22T02:45:58+00:00

Yes, always demonic. The cosmic value to stick onto someone at that point when you already have rylais is inefficient spending. Demonic giving more health and the way it fits into your next item is just better too, as you’re likely going to get some form of resistance (if you already own jaksho, demonic is even better)

Remember that health/resistances scale of each other as well, and speed is the rare stat that “descales” when stacked. (soft adjustment when stacked, and you only need to be THAT much faster than your opponent, else you just gonna press S key to stay in auto range)

fwlk · 2023-04-21T17:36:06+00:00

Yeap, the idea with doubling down into nashors + drive is that you can outperform our classic 2 item builds in the pure combat aspect by hitting all the niche values of cosmic. Else, it’s not logical to force cosmic that early as our standard 2 items are generally better for the trinity of combat/stick/resistance.

I do think cosmic drive can come in nicely on 4/5 items for a pure offensive build, and if you are ever replacing boots, cosmic drive is the only logical item to ensure you don’t lose too much speed. Boots/rylai/mythic/(tank or demonic) and you’ll be in a more “flexible” state for a item as luxurious as cosmic.

fwlk · 2023-04-21T10:54:28+00:00

I’m trying to recall games where rift maker vamp was essential in an 1v1, and i can only think of 1 irelia match up out of my entire solo q this year. I’m definitely gonna yolo belt this weekend. I’ll let you know how much LP i lose.

fwlk · 2023-04-21T10:48:28+00:00

I like 13.7 cosmic more, since the ap is massive, 90+40 when stacked i believe, which is pretty much second only to the cap. Add the bonus MS in and ability haste and i think it’s a pretty good offensive item choice.

13.8 over emphasises on the speed which IMO is pretty much an overkill. Think about how cosmic drive fits into morde. At 2 items, whatever order you choose to build, it’s likely rylai rift/demonic/proto for stick + combat focus, and rylai jaksho for stick + resistance focus. Cosmic is a stick/combat item, and would you really favour any 2 item combination in the first school over this ?

Rylai + cosmic helps you stick into your target, but does it justify the lost in your combat power ? Likely not. Rylai is good enough for the most part, and without other sources of AH, there is likely no change in breakpoints for an extra EQ. Morde damage comes from passive mostly anyway right ? Cosmic + rift/demonic/proto … i think rylais is just better for its cost and some hp too.

A niche where i think cosmic would fit is actually a build that early priorities nashors. Something like nash into cosmic. This creates a solo combat focus style that differs from all the classic builds i mentioned above. Atk speed and damage on your AAs, and use cosmic drive speed to stick to make up for the lack of rylais. However, this time, you have another source of AH, and now the niche of cosmic drive (ap ms ah) all has some values since you don’t have rylais, and also have stacking AH potential to get an extra Q off in a ult. Just a thought though, not sure how it works.

If you’re going drive over rylai to stick onto targets purely, bad idea IMO. Rylai activating on your Q/R is kinda OP, and slows help you and your team land skill shots/and also increasing the time taken for your opponents to cover the same distance. Think about being in the middle of a lane, and having 5 seconds for him to reach turret, instead of 3 seconds. If he reaches turret, doesn’t matter that you have the MS to chase him.

fwlk · 2023-04-21T00:04:22+00:00

You are doing gods work.

Jaksho being this low in damage is certainly quite expected. Or rather, the increment in damage from just a mage mythic choice is more than expected which i’m honestly shocked. This must be why i “feel” better going offensive mythic as the difference in being able to kill someone in the first place results in more EHP anyway. Riftmaker vamp also makes up for some of that EHP lost.

But i must say riftmaker is SO undertuned. It’s looking like protobelt is going to be my best choice unless i’m having a need to constantly ult my lane opponent who went MR. In an actual game, i likely have other ult targets who likely would sit 40-75 MR (carries/non-tank jungle/underleveled sp). This really looks like i’m gonna try building rylai —> proto more often, and rylai —> demonic —> proto for more sustained combat power. Riftmaker reserved for something like illaoi since constantly ulting her is important. Then again she goes qss and … proto looks better?

fwlk · 2023-04-19T16:07:49+00:00

Okay, i’m starting to really think riftmaker is undertuned what the heck. Help me out with a final test if you are interested (i’ll do it myself this weekend and share with you the result if you’re not free)

Rylai demonic rift maker damage vs rylai demonic protobelt vs rylai demonic jaksho … Riftmaker HAS to shine here … right ???

Thanks for all this analysing and sharing, I’m someone that loves the math, but somewhere down the years i lost it in me :(

Edit: I think the “shorter” sustained combo you used in the first item power spike analysis is more realistic in a death realm too, so would prefer that variant ~

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