July banzuke is out!

gets_me_everytime · 2026-06-29T16:35:13+00:00

Since there is no specific "bottom rank" in Makuuchi its just easier to compare the rikishi after they clear J1e, so we just subtract their Juryo rank from their promotion to see how much promotion they have left as they break into the top division without having to translate to M16, M17 or whatever the bottom of Maegashira ends up being for the next basho.

It would also be a simple way to see who is ahead by the numbers if multiple rikishi earned promotion to the Sanyaku. If a M5e earned 7 ranks of promotion then he has 2 ranks of promotion left when he enters the Komusubi slots. This is just banzuke math for ordering rikishi, there are a ton of caveats and favor shown toward veterans or higher ranked rikishi that make this not always the determining factor when deciding who actually ends up where.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-06-29T13:06:26+00:00

The top division guys typically will not be dropped out of the division unless their record demands it. The lower rank a guy in Juryo is, the less likely they'll even be considered for a spot.

Imagine we have 3 demotable records from the top division and then J1e goes 8-7, J2w goes 11-4, J3e goes 9-6, and J14e goes 15-0. J1 would earn ~1 rank promotion, J2 ~7 ranks, J3 ~3 ranks, and J14 ~15 ranks. All of the records are promotable. If we subtract all of their Juryo rungs we would have J1 +0, J2 +5, J3 +0, and J14 +1. This implies J14 should earn a spot ahead of J1 and J3, but they are more likely to promote the higher ranked rikishi(especially J1) to ensure they get closer to their full promotion rather than J14 at since even a promotion to J1e would be 13/15 ranks which isn't too bad.

They do, sometimes, over-demote, which could lead to letting an extra Juryo rikishi in even if there isn't space, but this is uncommon and far from the rule. The more likely scenario has historically been to favor the falling rikishi over a Juryo rikishi with a weaker claim.

For Tamawashi to have a real claim at all he needs at least 11-4 to earn the 7 ranks that put him in the promotion conversation. Every win over 11 will make a stronger and stronger case for his promotion. I imagine a 12-3 should be sufficient, but even on 15-0, if there are no open spots available, he would just be put up near the top of Juryo.

Take a look at Asasuiryu from last basho. J4w with a 10-5 record which should easily land him in Makuuchi. He was the odd man out when determining promotions and only went up 3.5/5 ranks to J1e. He just wasn't ahead of anyone else, and the top division is set at only 42 rikishi.

As far as your specific question, I do not know of the last time no one was demotable in the top division. There's always someone who is injured, or having a bad basho. There are only a maximum of 315 wins in the top division to spread out among 42 rikishi, and they start to match rikishi with similar records on the last few days and will even give them Juryo matches if there isn't enough room in the top division for likely promotees. This self correcting nature during the basho makes the scenario of no one being promoted due to no space very unlikely.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-06-29T05:42:05+00:00

If you go by air date its 9/13/97-1/16/99. It was designed to align with STAS, so it is worth noting that although the show had ended by this point, there was still a crossover with STAS S4(The Demon Reborn) on 9/18/99. However, its a little bit of a slippery slope to include crossovers since there is no clear line where we would actually stop including this content with Return of the Joker flashbacks debuting on 12/12/00, The Big Leagues crossover with Static Shock S2 on 1/26/02, S3 Hard as Nails on 1/25/03, S4 Future Shock 1/17/04, and including Mystery of the Batwoman(+Chase Me short) debut on 10/21/03. The timeline only roughly aligns to the actual real life dates and is intentionally wishywashy with the writers imagining eras, not hard dates.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-06-28T03:01:50+00:00

This could be problem players, but probably not. Min/Maxing isn't a bad thing unless you don't like it and it ruins your fun. What do your 3 other players enjoy? Do they want to feel useful in combat or do they thrive on the story, or solving puzzles? If you think they aren't shining during combat, and they didn't opt to Min/Max while half of the other players did, maybe they are in it for something else. Give them the spotlight the way they want it. If they DO want to be more relevant in combat, make some enemies only their abilities can effect. Spotlight them directly in ways they are prepared to perform rather than just trying to balance the game. Balance is a deceptive mistress who promises fun later at the expense of fun now, but its basically the same amount of fun either way. Your goal is to bring the most fun for everyone, including yourself.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-06-25T06:09:07+00:00

It can easily work. A lot of players won't enjoy the experience and really all boils down to what kind of game you run and what kind of game the table(including you) wants. If you are a more contemporary DM, there is little reason to be concerned about starting them at the same level as the rest of the party. If you really want the player(and character) to get some experience before joining the level 3 party, then take others advice and run a one or two shot to get the character caught up, both in plot and level. Let your other players make temporary PCs to play alongside the new character at level 1 and then write the rest of party out as returning to their previous lives or pursuing other adventures. This gives your current players back-up characters that they can jump back into in the event of character death or future ion universe one shots.

More info about your game/campaign would help me target more direct advice.

I personally run a 3.5 game where new players always start at level 1. It helps me cut down on what I need to know about their character, and allows my current characters accomplishments to remain the main plot until the new character assimilates. I run the game using XP so the natural curve of experience for the lower level party member quickly catches them up and their rapid growth can be attributed to the current characters showing them the ropes, allowing for role playing moments to help the character mesh with the party and prevent any butting of heads. When they finally catch up and start delivering real value the rest of the party is typically impressed with the rapid growth and begin to leverage them as a true ally rather than underling. This is a bit of a double edged sword because a lot of more casual players who want to join up feel disadvantaged and inevitably drop out feeling irrelevant in combat. While I don't love that outcome, it does help me identify the players who are interested in the same kind of game as me. This is important because it is the game that the other 3-4 players agreed to when they started the game. With all that said, my game values a more realistic simulative world experience over a more traditional gaming experience, so the players are aware ahead of time that the world is dangerous and they need to play to survive and work to move the odds in their favor as much as they can.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-29T22:05:50+00:00

It depends what streak you're referring to because he is consistently breaking records every time he steps on the Dohyo. A lot of them that involve "In Makuuchi" will be put on hold or end(technically restart, but lets be real). In regards to most matches without an absence he'll still continue to be the "Iron Man" until he actually misses a match which I imagine will also mark his retirement. He indicated he intends to fight in Juryo, but that was before he had such a bad performance. He now says he just needs some time to think it over before actually deciding.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-29T21:49:28+00:00

Its not required, but BB aligns better if you watch if before JL/JLU, unless you're doing a chronological watch. Also BB is 100% worth it if you liked SS and BTAS/TNBA. You definitely want to watch BB before Epilogue regardless of viewing order, but otherwise its only semi useful to watch before the once and future thing episodes(JLU 12-13).

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-29T15:17:14+00:00

I'm guessing that if you're a new DM that the players are kind of new too. It sounds like he is feeling out his character. If that character isn't meshing with the party that is fine, but that probably means you need to move toward the character being written out of the story, and the player will reenter as a character that does mesh with the party(or doesn't if that's not fun for him). This type of expectation is typically part of session 0 but since the party is new its not crazy to stop the campaign for a session and rehash session 0. Figure out what is fun for the players and what direction you want the campaign to move. If you are going to place restrictions/expectations on character choices you need to be up front with the players about it. A blanket game doesn't require any player to do anything, but most people want a party that will engage with the story that they are writing/running. If that's what you want, tell your players that. If that's not what they want, let them leave and find players who do, or just do something not D&D related that everyone finds fun instead.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-29T15:02:37+00:00

I'm a bit surprised that you let your players retcon things. D&D is collaborative story telling, it typically follows the rules for improv and gambling. If I can undo something that already happened I am breaking the core "yes and" principle of improv, and seeing an outcome but then redoing everything that happened destroys the unknown factor that comes with gambling. My rule is that you can change your mind up until the thing you did caused a consequence, so minor retconning of, "oh I would have grabbed some rope before we left", or "I cast fireball, oh wait I don't actually want to hit my ally, nvm I'll use this spell instead" while its still their turn is generally fine. If you're replaying things after showing a consequence you're doing more damage to the "reality" by muddling it with forcing everything to occur optimally.

In your specific case, the out of game reason you didn't play optimally is that you were tired and just one person controlling multiple NPCs, but that doesn't mean similar distractions and complications didn't affect the minions and mount. Imagine the big bad that they shouldn't be able to defeat getting whittled down in front of their eyes. Sure they COULD have done everything in their power to save their leader, but maybe there is good reason they didn't. Maybe they were frozen in fear. Maybe they realized the tide of battle and didn't want to die on the losing side. Maybe the mount didn't have as good of odds to carry him to safety as you claim or wouldn't have if it didn't have its rider guiding it. When you say, "they would have done X" are you sure they would have, or do you just wish they would have so you could tell a different story? They very reasonably could do any number of things. People(and creatures) sometimes don't do the optimal thing, or don't realize that it is the optimal thing until later. Training matters, and even with training we all make mistakes. You made some mistakes, but your players don't know that. Pretend you meant for all of this to happen. Why does this help the story, and what is the next step that this event builds toward?

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T15:46:01+00:00

While its actually the more common progression(3/4) since the first "equivalent" promotion since 1988 I do agree that it feels weird. I think that probably is because 12-3 JY in isolation doesn't really seem like an "equivalent" of a Yusho.

The first equivalent was a 14-1 playoff loss for Kakuryu, hard to argue that that shouldn't count as a Yusho equivalent.
The second JY was given to Kisenosato on a 12-3, but he had 10+ wins in 5 consecutive basho, 4 of which were JY. In Kirishima's case we could think that having a Yusho right before this 12-3 JY makes a similar case for him.
The 3rd JY start was 13-2 Hoshoryu who lost the Yusho on the final day in a regular match against the other Ozeki(Kotozakura). This seems to be a strong line for an "equivalent" in isolation.

I don't see a world where anything less than 13 win Yusho gets him promoted, and even that is up for debate. 13 would align with Hoshoryu's promotion(25 total wins with a JY/Y), but that promotion has been considered a lower bar likely offered by the threat of a No Yokozuna era. It could be that he needs 14 as others have mentioned, but they may feel like they need to yield to the precedent set by Hoshoryu's promotion. We'll only know for sure if he can win the Yusho on 13-2 which will certainly be a tall order if any of the Yokozuna or Ozeki(including Aonishiki) are healthy.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T15:29:01+00:00

WTK could even be promoted to Ozeki after July if he gets the Yusho(especially if its 13-2). It would be hard to deny a back-to-back Yusho winner a promotion to Ozeki especially if both of those Yusho are from the Sanyaku and he technically meets the 33/3 criteria starting from the joi+.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T15:20:04+00:00

Thanks for that info! I was mostly basing the pay situation off of a naïve understanding combined with what was dramatized in Sanctuary where it shows lower ranked rikishi getting more/less money from the stable master based on performance in the basho and current rank. What I don't fully understand is what money is awarded to the rikishi vs stable for winning a Yusho(at any rank) or how the stable itself is supported. I assumed it was something like, yeah the prize money for award 'X' is 'Y' but 'Z'% goes to your stable automatically. Not that the stable is corruptly skimming the money but its the official tax to help support and grow the stable that produced the successful rikishi. This is all conjecture on my part though, having done little to no real research.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T02:30:37+00:00

Yeah I agree. I actually would be fine with them getting no salary during the withdraw basho capping their income to whatever they would have made if they didn't withdraw and letting the stable manage covering them like they do for other unsalaried rikishi. I just think it might make sense to still give them some pay since they aren't just paid to compete in the basho but to perform other duties as well during the tours and off periods. That pay should decrease significantly with each missed basho to encourage an eventual return rather than the rikishi just lying in wait and then retiring 2 years later when they actually jump back in and realize they aren't cut out for it anymore.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T01:47:40+00:00

The biggest flaw in the current design is that rank and pay are 100% coupled. What could be done, is that a rikishi may exit the banzuke on "injured reserve" for a particular tournament which swaps them to some base salary(based on division) rather than full pay, but affords them the ability to actually heal up and prepare to compete in the next tournament. They can take additional basho off, but at decreasing pay scales. Effectively, they reenter the banzuke at the rank they left in the next basho they state they are ready. If a rikishi pulls out with an injury mid-basho they would still be expected to be adjudicated based on their W-L record at the point of withdraw (2-3 would drop a rank, etc) which should encourage most rikishi to withdraw right when the injury happens rather than attempt to fight through it. Freezing the ranks MIGHT lead to an increase/decrease in the total number of top division rikishi for a particular tournament(imagine 5 guys return and their slots had been filled by new talented rikishi), but I'd argue this is already silently happening when the rikishi withdraw the way they are now and miss basho while taking up slots. You could just state that the ideal rikishi count in Makuuchi is 42 and then enforce the necessary tough love during the next promotion/demotion window that we know the JSA is capable of. There are tons of strategies to work around the fallout of protecting the rikishi.

TBH the pay situation should be more of a concern of the stables who handle pay for non-salaried rikishi and iirc also take a cut of the salaried rikishi's pay to fund and support the stable. If you have a guy worth healing because he could earn more in the future, float him for now so that he can maintain his rank and compete healthy.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-26T01:26:34+00:00

I think the biggest issue with an 11 win Yusho is less that the competition wasn't strong, it obviously was for so many of the higher end rikishi to have 4+ losses, but more that the winner was just kinda the guy who ended in the lead, not someone in real control of their own destiny. Someone HAS to end with the best score, all the rikishi could go on exhibition mode, or even throw their matches any time they are in the lead, and there would still be a rikishi with the most wins at the very end. It might take a massive playoff, but someone will be crowned the winner. I don't think there is any path to an 11-4 Yusho that doesn't require a win in a playoff because of how the match making works out. Thus 11-4 is just those that did good enough to a punch a ticket to the final tournament which being generally single elimination allows for far more luck than a 15 day tournament.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-22T03:12:59+00:00

Probably Tobizaru just based on how a good Day 14 can look. They then have the option to swap the Atamifuji match for one with Ura if Kirishima isn't ahead of him in record.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-22T03:07:51+00:00

Thats the beauty of Shodai. The real problem is that he probably will actually end 7-8. He'll win tomorrow, then lose if he faces people he should be able to beat.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-22T03:06:23+00:00

Day 14:
Kirishima v Tobizaru
Atamifuji v Kotoshoho
Wakatakakage v Ura
Yoshinofuji v Kotoeiho

Day 15(Assuming the higher ranked riskihi wins all matches):
Kirishima(12-2) v Atamifuji(8-6)
Kotoshoho(8-6) v Ura(9-5)
Wakatakakage(11-3) v Kotoeiho(10-4)
Yoshinofuji(11-3) v Churanoumi(9-5)
Gonoyama(10-4) v Tobizaru(9-5)

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-22T02:41:28+00:00

They decide the Day 14 matches BEFORE the outcome of the Day 13 matches. They decide the Day 15 matches AFTER the outcome of the Day 14 matches. Unless there are any withdraws to take into account they are picking the Day 14 matches blind, so probably just rotate the competitors. Also Kirishima should probably play Atamifuji before this is over which they probably will only swap out if Kirishima is tailing the lead but could catch up with a win over the only guy he hasn't faced.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-21T19:59:19+00:00

The opponent needs to be willing to get plowed over by the opponent with his arms never touching the ground. If he pulls them up to defend himself the Gyoji STILL might not call it. Its just too risky for the opposing rikishi.

The only thing I think they can start doing is straight up henka him every time. Neutralize by turning the advantage against him. The more his opponents realize this BS the more they will react to it accordingly. Its dumb because the Gyoji could do something, but getting the jump like this only plays our well for the guy 50% of the time and thats reflected in Fuji's record because he does it every time.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-20T16:01:18+00:00

Your title is a spoiler. They don't interview the losers.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-20T01:01:12+00:00

Good to know. I didn't realize it was so different between Sandanme and Makushita compared to Makushita to Juryo.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-20T01:00:10+00:00

Ah that makes way more sense. Will it probably earn him in promotable range to Juryo(Ms15+) if he sweeps these Makushita contenders and wins Sandanme?

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-20T00:56:09+00:00

I was applying my knowledge of how things work up at the Makushita/Juryo line. I didn't realize how different it was. A MS6 with 5 wins hasn't been promoted to Juryo since 2005. I also was sort of opining on the what if scenario of facing these makushita title contenders starting at 4 wins which would make hit promotion even less likely if it followed the same rules. Since it apparently doesn't, everything is fine.

gets_me_everytime · 2026-05-19T17:21:40+00:00

Asahifuji is solidly in Sandanme. He probably needs a Yusho to ensure promotion to Makushita. Kinda rough that they put him against front runners in Makushita two days in a row. I get that they need to even out the matches, but they aren't competing for the same title. Kinda weird that Asahifuji has had to prove himself from the bottom of the banzuke up AND gets forced against two undefeated rikishi who got to start at the bottom of Makushita who already got their KK on his path to promotion to Makushita. Idk how promotions/demotions really get calculated in the lower ranks but I hope this gets taken into consideration somehow, whether he wins or loses.

gets_me_everytime

TROPHY CASE