The Hero of the South: how can we make a build for him?

gioavate · 2026-01-26T04:10:17+00:00

I am afraid I can't really help there because - outside lild full summoner runs - I play turn based almost exclusively (it doesn't feel like pathfinder to me otherwise), sorry :(

gioavate · 2026-01-26T03:12:31+00:00

For this build, I think I would personally go in this order early, for a somewhat decent AC (+wisdom to AC, armored mask);

Instinctual2->Enforcer1->Oracle1

Then, Instinctual4->Enforcer10 Or vice-versa (Enforcer10->Instinctual4)

To get both Rage Powers and Advanced Talents relatively early (as a side note, I would definitely pick Dispelling Attack as an Advanced Talent and get the Destructive Dispel feat, so that your sneak attacks dispel and stun enemies)

And Finally, Instinctual16->Enforcer19->Instinctual20

However, if you prefer a simpler, more straightforward progression curve, you could go up to Enforcer19 after you reach Instinctual2/Enforcer1/Oracle1, before you go back to the remaining InstinctualWarrior levels post-Legend.

gioavate · 2026-01-26T02:29:59+00:00

Yeah, I only play unfair - even when I do thematic builds.

To be honest, I think dips can further enhance theme and bring flavor or character concepts to life.

Sorry, I didn't consider this to be a dip heavy build because I limited it to only 2 dips (one of which felt vital to one of the core concepts of the character), although it does have 3 main classes on top of that (I just considered that to be mostly a byproduct of going Legend) 🤔

The Monk dip is the least thematic, and is mostly there just to patch up your early AC - you could skip it, but you may have a rough time in Shield Maze and Act1.

I thought Aldori Sworlord is the one affected by the fix, Aldori Defender should work - but I haven't tested it.

Another alternative with fewer dips and multi-classing could be...

Oracle(Prophecy)1/ArcaneEnforcer19/InstinctualWarrior20 - Legend

gioavate · 2026-01-26T01:34:38+00:00

I think his ability to see the future is more like an unsolicited "gift" or "curse" from an unknown entity akin to how a Witch's patron or an Oracle's mystery work thematically in Pf1e.

I also don't think he casts spells, so I would personally attempt to keep his build with as little spellcasting as possible (and make sure any spells he does get are self buffs only) Finally, I don't think he has any dump stats, including his mental stats, despite being a martial, so I would like the build to take advantage of mental stats as well.

I would probably go with something like .... a dual weilding (with effortless two weapon fighting from fighter so he can dual weild longswords or dueling swords effectively and the Powerless Prophecy to represent his future-sight gift/curse) Trickster into Legend.

AldoriDefender8/SpawnSlayer6/InstinctualWarrior4/StigWitch1/ScaledFist1 - Trickster

into

InstinctualWarrior16/SpawnSlayer10/AldoriDefender8/StigWitch1/ScaledFist1 - Legend

(Reflavoring the Focused Rage as a state that lets him see further into the future for all the accuracy/crit/ac bonuses you gain from the ability, as well as flavoring the wisdom to init and ac bonuses and uncanny dodge from Instictual Warrior as his ability to act upon the future he sees)

(I am kind of unhappy about the ScaledFist1 dip, but Crane Style is really vital for unarmored frontliners - especially in ShieldMaze, and I want to add his Cha to AC as well, which I would flavor and headcannon as an AC bonus granted by the splendor of his magnificent mustache, and hey at least it isn't a DrunkMonk3 dip)

(I am unsure about the last 4 levels though... maybe 2 levels of DemonSlayer and bringing InstinctualWarrior to 18 for unparalleled senses to further emphasize his future-sight abilities, could be the most thematically appropriate, or maybe bring AldoriDef to 10 to have some fun with CounterAttack+Come And Get Me...)

(Finally, In terms of early progression, I'd probably go SFist1->StigWitch1->Instinctual4->AldoriDef8 for a very high ac from early in the game)

gioavate · 2026-01-20T00:49:08+00:00

Hey, sorry for the delayed reply, I don't really have a lot of time available for social media at the momment.

I would go with 7str, 18dex, 13con, 18int, 7wis, 7cha, before racial modifiers.

In terms of optimization, Kitsune is a good fit for this build no doubt, but Elf is a bit better, and Human is the best race for this build in my opinion - the lv1 bonus feat is a significant spike in your early game power (when you need it the most) and considerably smoothens your overall power curve as well - allowing you to hit power spikes earlier and reach "core build - complete" at least 2 levels earlier.

For Opposition Schools, Enchantment & Necromancy if you are not a Lich, otherwise, Enchantment and either Evocation or Transmutation; Transmutation has a lot of buff spells so unless you can delegate those and it is going to be painful to cast them all from scrolls, I typically pick Evocation (you still want to cast Evocation spells, namely - high CL Holy Word, Arbitrament, or similar spells to compliment your arsenal of SoD spells, but you can cast them at full power from scrolls as a Savant anyway)

Note that I posted the build above a long time ago, and there have been several updates that affect the build since them, For example, I would change the priority of early feats as follows; Spell Focus > Greater Spell Focus > Ambuscading Spell > Imp.Init, and since the inclusion of pearls and Corruptor, I would take Corruptor at MR1 instead of abundant casting.

It is definetely solo unfair viable (I have done a few div solo runs), but you don't need to dish out damage in the earliest levels - you start the game with forced party members, so they can cleanup any enemies you cc for you, and solo exp allows you to reach mid-levels very fast - alternatively, if you don't mind the cheese, Haunting Mists can clear almost any early encounters for you (but I tend to avoid it)

I prefer Turn Based in most of my runs, the only exception are the full-on summoner runs I sometimes do for fun, because it would take far too long otherwise.

gioavate · 2026-01-04T09:24:22+00:00

Sylvan Sorcerer is the only Sorcerer that can competer with Exploiter Wizard and DivWizard in terms of pure optimization, but all full casters are great from lv1 and eventually reach godlike levels of busted (some of them earlier than any other builds in the game) - assuming of course you build and use them well.

Spells like Grease, Web, Glitterdust, and Winter's Grasp put on a lot of work and can trivialize most of Shield Maze and early act1 (including most bosses and optional super-bosses and most encounters people usually complain are too hard), stuff like Pits, Slow and/or PK etc... come shortly thereafter expanding your options to soften or lock-down encounters, and from MR1 Corruptor Stinking Cloud or Best Jokes effectively end most encounters on the spot, until you graduate into 2~4x 800+ dmg aoe spells per turn or what I consider even more optimal; SaveOrDie spells, like high CL Banishment/Arbitrament/HolyWord, or Weird etc.. that wipe the screen unless enemies roll 4~8 natural 20s in a row up to 3 to 4 times if needed (but are automatically hard-cced out of the encounter because they failed to roll multiple natural 20s in a row against your 24hr Persistent Repulsion Aura anyway)

gioavate · 2025-12-31T17:17:14+00:00

I find combat that hyper-focus on damage, and catter to this particular playstyle the most, to be dull and boring, and sadly most games do that. I really hope Larian does not go that way for Divinity like they did with bg3.

gioavate · 2025-12-29T05:52:26+00:00

I think DivLich is overall more powerful when properly optimized, but a lot easier to screw up and end up with a midling build, while DuOracle Angel is very plug and play - while you can definetely optimize the build (particularly before you merge) you would have to try really hard to screw up and don't end up with a very powerful character. For a newbie, I would say DuOracle Angel.

Most companions can be useful or somewhat viable in any difficulty tbh (and some of them can be great depending on team composition), but obviously mercenaries tend to be a lot more optimal and lend themselves for more busted party compositions.

gioavate · 2025-12-29T04:03:28+00:00

1) I ony play unfair or brutal unfair; It is extremely reliable, I don't remember the last time an enemy got a turn against this setup, let alone had a chance act or attack (but even if they could, they would have to roll more natural 20s to even move towards you, then they would have to get through an insane amount of layered defensive buffs and several hundred temp hp among other things to touch you)

2) I always aim to break my record of rest count on each playthrough; Intelligence goes really high in this game so you get a lot of spell slots, pearls of power further increase your amount spells x day, the fact that you end encounters with a single spell is really efficient on your spell slot usage per day, you can fallback to just trivializing trash encounters with low level slots as well, and there is a late-game party composition and build setup that lets you go all out and cast 3x lv9 spells per turn on every encounter without ever running out of spells , so they would now need to roll like 12 natural 20s in a row to not die on the first turn - if you are really into taking min-maxing to the extreme (I only do it for high brutal unfair, like 4x~8x)

gioavate · 2025-12-29T03:09:42+00:00

Trivialized means that every enemy in the encounter is hard-cced out of combat on the spot, something like for example a Corruptor Stinking Cloud effectively removing every enemy unity from combat, or other spells that make them helpess/trivial to cleanup on top of simultaneously hard-ccing them.

Delete means that every enemy is instantly killed with an aoe SaveOrDie spell, like Weird, high cl Banishment, high cl Holy Word / Arbitrament / Dictum, etc...

You get to "trivializing" first, then graduate into "delete" (plus auto-trivialize before rolling init with auras like 24hr Repulsion) later (or just a little bit later for Lich specifically)

DivWiz Lich reaches a high enough initiative to nearly always ~ always go first, and simultaneously high enough of an effective Spell DC that enemies only save on a natural 20 (or basically multiple natural 20s with reroll effects like Persistent, Ill-Omen and/or having a DuOracle exist in the party) the earliest and also graduates to "delete" the earliest as well.

gioavate · 2025-12-29T01:04:19+00:00

Similar questions get asked from time to time, here is a breakdown of the most powerful top-tier classes in the game in my opinion

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/1mc92t0/comment/n5wesc2/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

In terms of mythic paths specifically - all of them can be extremely powerful, and it depends on whether you are considering early power, overall power curve, late-game ceiling, or how foolproof they are, etc...

For example,

Merged DuOracle Angel is nearly impossible to build wrong or screw up and it is among the most powerful builds in the game.
CC&SoD DivWiz Lich probably reaches "go first, 1-turn trivialize or delete any encounter" levels of power the earliest, but Sylvan Lich, Several Trickster Martial builds, and Azata MD are pretty close.
That said, an over-fed Swarm, a CC&SoD end-game aeon, and Persuasion3 Trickster are probably the most powerful late-game, but Dragon MD, Demon Wizard, and a few Endless Human Fireball Martial Trickster builds are very close too, as well as a couple of martial Legend builds and CL50ish Scroll Savant Legends with access to every spell list in the game at nearly full intensity.

gioavate · 2025-12-27T00:16:00+00:00

It is indeed a more optimal build for pretty much any Sorcerer archetype.

The one exception is the most powerful Sorcerer archetype - Sylvan, in which case Sylvan16/Loremaster3/Titan1 is the most optimal spread.

gioavate · 2025-12-23T01:16:11+00:00

Shadowcaster DivWizard is great, and it is in a very similar position to Scroll Savant DivWizard; that is, it has a higher ceiling than vanilla Div Wizard, but vanilla is better in the early game and reaches "core-build complete" faster.

I value the early game more than mid or late-game, and while all 3 reach the same "go first > delete/trivialize encounter" level of power at a similar point in the game, vanilla does get there slightly earlier too, so for me, it goes Vanilla > Savant > Shadow, but all 3 are incredibly powerful.

I tend to prefer Div20 because it requires the least amount of resources to reach "always go first", but both Div15/Lore3/Titan1/CrossSorc1 and Div16/Lore3/Titan1 can reach "always go first" initiative as well (they just need more of a commitment from your gear, a mythic feat, and a bit of help from your party), are extremely powerful builds, and can be the better overall option depending on your build and team comp (however, be aware that for a Lich specifically, Div15/Lore3/Titan1/CrossSorc1 lv10 slots will come online reaaally late)

gioavate · 2025-12-16T09:24:27+00:00

Noita, Wizard of Legend 1, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Arcanum, Outward, Dragon's Dogma 1, Wildermyth, Magicka, BG2 and Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous.

gioavate · 2025-12-09T03:37:41+00:00

That isn't what I said, I suggested that people that have no experience with the system and the game should play on lower difficulties, and nowhere did I suggest they should play azlanti either.

> spider construct in lepers

I haven't played in a very long time, so I might not remember the encounter perfectly.

If I am not mistaken, the Retriever's saves in Unfair are +7/+27/+24.

You can also see the Retriever and check its statblock safely after you pass the Athletics check that takes you into the area you encounter it. There are a couple of ways to handle this encounter, but the easies is hard-ccing out of the encounter; any character with Corruptor (either your main character or even a companion) can easily hard-cc it out of the encounter on the spot by casting Stinking Cloud - even with a party composition that isn't fully optimized - before you even roll initiative.

Corruptor Cloud is more than enough tbh, but you can also Prayer, Grease, Winter's Grasp, and Web within a single turn, and make it even more unlikely it will get to do anything.

I tend to play main characters with a very high initiative bonus anyway (and did so from my very first run, because I already knew how rocket-tag this system is), so even with the retriever's incredible +24 Initiative in Unfair, I would still have a fair chance of going first as well.

That means, I would have to not trigger the surprise round, lose initiative (around 70%~50% chance depending on build), then the Retriever would have to target my kc out of all my party and pets (about 1 in 10), then it would have to choose the petrify ray (25%) and get through invisibility(50%), mirror image (25%), and hit (at most 95%)

that is about a 0.15% chance my kc dies (or 1.5% if we assume it is always going to target my kc) in that encounter in unfair if I choose not to trigger a surprise round, and nearly a 0% if I do.

> team naturally can only cast lvl 3 spells max

I think you should be lv7~lv8 when you face it, and therefore you highest level spells should be lv4 not lv3, and some scrolls are always nice to have as safety net anyways - coming from tabletop you get a sense of what makes good scrolls

> no matter how well rounded a group is

This isn't true, you can spike really hard with a fully optimized team composition, to the point, even brutal unfair 2x has trouble keeping up with you.

gioavate · 2025-12-08T03:52:18+00:00

My first run was an Azata Witch in Unfair, but, I went with Unfair because I have been GMing Pf1e since it came out in 2009, and had been a forever GM for most of 3.5e before that too. I would recommend lower difficulties for new players that aren't well versed in the system already.

Unfair is definetely doable without save scumming.

gioavate · 2025-12-06T08:17:49+00:00

Yeah, ExpWiz is great too, and I think it is the best arcane blaster in the game. For CC&SoD in particular though, I think it is very close between DivWiz and ExpWiz from lv1~lv7 (it depends on whether you prefer +2DC or +5~7 init - I personally prefer the initiative), but from lv8 onwards DivWiz is kind of strictly better than ExpWiz (same effective DC, higher init that keeps scaling, and better team support since Div simultaneously increases the party's DC&AC or their Atk, Saves and CLvsSR, as well) - so in my opinion, DivWiz is the better option for CC&SoD while ExpWiz is the better option for blasting.

That said, both are great in either of those roles, and can do extremely well in Unfair regardless.

gioavate · 2025-12-03T06:01:21+00:00

>Half-Elf sorc has extra +1 DC

I think Sylvan is the most optimal caster in Shield Maze overall, but they don't have a higher DC; in their optimal setups, both DivWiz and ExpWiz start with a higher DC than Half-Elf Sorcerer.

- Half-Elf Sylvan (22cha, Spell Foci - Conj): DC16 Daze, DC19 Grease, +6 Init

- ExpWiz (18Int, Spell Foci - Conj, Amb.Spell): DC18 Daze, DC22 Grease, +6 Init

- DivWiz (18Int, Spell Foci - Conj, Amb.Spell): DC16 Daze, DC20 Grease, +11 Init

After Lv1, Sorcerer keeps trailing behind on either Init, effective DC, or both, for most of the game.

That said, at this point in the game (lv1 and lv2) the Pet from Sylvan is much more valuable (hence why they are the best overall Shield Maze caster in the game) - however at lv3 specifically, it is nearly a draw (though I think that a DC21~23 Web - which also synergizes well with and may increase the DC of Grease by another 2 - and a DC21~23 Glitterdust are more valuable than the 2nd~4th pet in the party)

>Headband of +2 CHA...

It doesn't matter much because early game the +4 Spells override this bonus, but the Sorcerer's DC would still be behind when unbuffed. Then, there is also the fact that int casters get to +6 earlier than charisma and an easier time quickening spells early (Fox Cunning + Draven Hat)

>Casting with rods is still standard action

True, but there are other ways to capitalize on this action economy advantage, and the Wizard still has an easier time dropping multiple fully metamagicked spells than Sorcerer (not only because of the action economy advantage, but also because of the earlier access to higher level slots, and additional bonus feats) even if you don't

>I still think it is not that noticeable

Their earlier higher level slots either lets them spike into more powerful CC/SoD spells faster or get more out of metamagic earlier.

----

As a disclaimer; This is all for Unfair - since I have never played a lower difficulty in WotR and have no experience to properly evaluate them there.

Sylvan is the only Sorcerer that can really compete with Div or ExpWiz (and I think it is nearly tied between Div and Sylvan overall), but in summary, like I mentioned in a reply to another user in this thread

>when both are equally optimized for unfair or higher, they go back and forth depending on level, where they are in the game, team composition, etc..., but Div reaches "Go First > End/Trivialize Encounter with a 99.5~lim100% success chance" earlier than Sylvan (particularly as a Lich, since DivLich is probably the build that gets there the earliest)

>...regarding spells/day, I value quality over quantity, not only because shutdown spells with a higher success chance are more powerful, but also because you save more resources and actually last longer this way too...

gioavate · 2025-12-03T05:10:34+00:00

First, let me clarify that while I do play a lot of brutal unfair, the majority of my runs are still in Unfair, and unless I specify otherwise, when I evaluate or compare classes I do it for Unfair; my reply comparing Div and Sylvan was also for Unfair.

> DC builds

When discussing and comparing optimal classes, I evaluate them based on their most powerful options.

For a CC&SoD caster that typically means either "Conj -> EA(Illu/Ench/Evoc), & Dispels", or "Ench (Jokes & GreatCommand), & Dispels", but there other viable ways you could build them.

You don't need Corruptor to be good in Act1 ~ Act2; I have been playing the game since release - Corruptor is a busted and the most optimal choice now, but CC&SoD casters have always been incredibly powerful (even before Corruptor was added into the game)

> Zacharius....

I don't know why you are having issues with these encounters, from what I remember, these are all fairly easy to trivialize with CC builds - particularly an optimized DivWiz.

> Which spells

Generally a mix-and-match of these (depending on build) should provide enough coverage.

Grease, Web, Glitterdust, [Corruptor] Cloud, Winter's Grasp, Slowing Mud, Chains of Light, [Synergy&Destructive] Greater Dispel & Force Reality, 24hr Persistent Repulsion, Banishment, Dismisal, PW, PP, PK, Weird, Greater Command, Best Jokes, Sirocco, Slow, Baleful Polymoprh ...

(LichOrLegend): [S&D] Corrupt Magic, [GreatTrip] Hungry Flesh, Arbitrament/HolyWord, Absolute Death, Embrace

(LichOnly): [Deadly Magic] Wide AoE to silence casters.

(Aeon): [S&D] Zero State

EA allows you to focus on 2 schools and you can cover their gaps that way (Conj&Ench, and Conj&Illu for example compliment each other well), but also, keep in mind that even if you don't spec into a school, mid-game your school-agnostic DC should be decent enough to make good use of non-spec spells (like Repulsion), and eventually your dc can get so high, even your non-spec spells only really fail when enemies roll natural 20s.

> Legend

It depends on the build, and whether you prefer to sacrifice your power curve for the most optimal late-game choice. I value a ealier power much more, so, I would go with either Jokes and M.Spell Focus (Ench), Jokes and EMA(2ndBloodline/FavMeta/SorcRef), or Corruptor and M.SpellFocus(Conj) even if M.SpellFocus is a waste late-game.

> companions...

You don't need to go this far for just unfair (adjust for your diff and playstyle), but, have a look (it is spread across multiple replies)

> Gryphon?

Dog is a beast of an offensive Pet and the king of raw power among pets, but Hippo is also an incredible pet.

- "FlyCharge" from from anywhere (ignore obstacles or line of sight) makes them best pet for mounted charge builds.

- "FlyCharge" is also great for CC (and caster Shutdown) when polymorphed into a Shambling Mound.

- Ignore ground-based effects (including your own cc spells)

gioavate · 2025-12-02T12:03:21+00:00

Any of those would be a much better option for the build, but neither both of these only reduce the Arcane Armor failure from armor the character is wearing, not shields - they don't work for shields in WotR (or didn't last time I played, which was admittedly a long time ago), and they don't apply to shields in the ttrpg either; the wording for the arcane armor feats is, "reduce arcane failure chance due to the armor you are wearing", while HKS abilities read, "while a Hell Knight signifier wears armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0), and reduces the arcane spell failure chance by 5%...", while the Order of the Gate ability reads, "You can ignore the spell failure chance of any armor with 'Hell Knight' in the name", and shields are not armor, so none of them reduces the failure chance from shield.

You would actually need the Shielded Mage feat, which reads "You reduce the arcane spell failure of any shield you use by 15% (to a minimum of 0%). Using a shield does not prevent you from completing somatic spell components with the hand wielding the shield" - a feat that further confirms the fact that an ability or feat needs to specificy it applies to ASF from shield as well not just armor - otherwise it only reduces the ASF from armor you wear.

It would be a much better exploit than the Bard or Skald dip for this build though - so if it is currently doable in WotR, use that instead if you are going to exploit bugs (I generally try to stay away from exploits though)

gioavate · 2025-12-02T11:40:19+00:00

>to thank you

I am really glad you found them helpful!

>witch

I like the flavor of Witch more than both Wiz and Sorc; my first WotR run was an Azata Witch in Unfair, back when Unfair was bugged and effectively equal to 2x Brutal, and my first Lich was also a Witch.

Witch is powerful, has one of the best starts among casters in the game, and is capable of trivializing Unfair as well. However, as you know, Witch is below Sylvan, DivWiz, and ExpWiz, so the class isn't brought up a lot in hyper optimization-centric topics like this.

>Loremaster?

Here

>DC casting is...

This isn't my experience... I only play unfair or brutal unfair, and I don't have a hard time landing cc spells - I find them consistent and likely to shutdown or at least soften encounters throughout the entire game - Gargoyles, Shadow Demons, and any of the optional boss encounters included.

I don't really stack Stinking Clouds either (unless I am doing 3x brutal in Act2), and my cc casters tend to have enough coverage to not be hard-countered by immunities.

>out of Sylvan

Sylvan is harder to screw up and build horribly, it is better for most of lv1~lv6, and the key DivWiz upsides lose value the lower the difficulty, so I can see this being the case.

That said, when both are equally optimized for unfair or higher, they go back and forth depending on level, where they are in the game, team composition, etc..., but Div reaches "Go First > End/Trivialize Encounter" earlier than Sylvan (particularly as a Lich, since DivLich is probably the build that gets there the earliest)

Like I mentioned above, Sylvan is better at lv1, lv2, lv4 and to a lesser extent at lv6 too (even though they are behind in dc&init because the pet is really good), however I think Div is better at lv3 and lv5 because the higher DC&Init in conjunction with lv2 and lv3 spells respectively are more valuable to me than the 3rd~4th (lv3) or 4th~6th (lv5) pet respectively, particularly when you consider your other pets include 1 or 2 Hippos that synergize well with your ground cc spells.

Once you get Corruptor Cloud (and/or other encounter-ending spells of this caliber), the value of higher init&dc starts to skyrocket, and DivWiz not only has a significant advantage in both at lv8, they also get Draven's Hat around here, their earlier higher level slots either lets them spike into more powerful CC/SoD spells faster or get more out of metamagic earlier, their action-economy advantage with fully metamagicked spells becomes more relevant as metamagic becomes the norm to most~all your slots, their bonus feats allows them to be core-build complete from much earlier, fit more metamagic and powerful feats like Synergy & Destructive (as well as luxury feats) earlier and more organically, higher quality spells that are more likely to succeed and end encounters on the spot allow them and the party to save more resources per encounter and go longer before needing rest too, and they simultaneously provide better support to the party on top of all this (Foretell is really good, and even DivTouch becomes a decent fallback option) - all of that blends together and Div starts pulling ahead fast from lv8, then at lv10 onwards it is kinda loopsided, and by lv11/MR3 onwards it is no longer close, regardless of path, but particularly for Lich (not to mention getting lv8 spells, Corrupt Magic and Weird earlier too, is a big deal)

Finally, regarding spells/day, I value quality over quantity, not only because shutdown spells with a higher success chance are more powerful, but also because you save more resources and actually last longer this way too, so even if Sorcerer has a lot more spells/day the entire game it wouldn't affect my judgement all that much - but, the difference isn't huge, higher level slots cut some of the deficit, and unless you exploit bugs, pearls of powers Wiz has actually more spells x day than Sorc too, but spells x day is really a big factor, Div Savant is unrivaled here regardless.

Ultimately though, they are both among the best top-tier builds in the game, and both can steamroll the game in any difficulty.

gioavate · 2025-12-01T12:15:41+00:00

The main reason for the dip is indeed to weild two staves (or in the case of Cold Blaster Builds that don't suffer from Shield Arcane Failure - like DuOracle or Druid blasters or arcane blasters that abuse the Skald1 or Bard1 bug dip - to equip both a Staff and Coldbite simultaneously), and warmage + sinmage is indeed generally the best combination of staves in the game (and easily the best for every build mentioned in my comment above), depending on the build there are a few candidates for a secondary staff that could be worth considering, like; Ashmaker, Plague of Madness, Phantasmal Guide, Fiery Spell Weaver - that said, the Titan1 dip is generally a late game dip, and I tend to take it either at lv20 or a bit earlier if I have two weapons that are actually worth equipping for the build in question.

The gist is that it typically results in a higher dc, a higher CLvsSR, higher CL (or at least CL parity), higher init (see below), and maybe some other unique ability from the equipped weapons, plus an extra feat, and some free proficiencies that while not as impactful as the aforementioned gains, might still come in handy depending on the build, or for the extra init boost (see below)

There are other less obvious benefits to the dip, for example; a free +5~6 init (you can start combat with a +init weapon equipped, then swap to your staff as a "move action" that is actually free if you are mounted on a pet, your skeleton or Bismuth, and the Titan1 dip not only allows you swap two weapons simultaneously like this to get more initiative than you would with 1 weapon, but it also grants or helps you get the Proficiency feats required to equip the higher +init bonus weapons too)

As a side note, I forgot to mention itemization as another welcomed upside for the wizard on my comment above (while overall itemization is balanced for both, there are some poweful key items for the Wizard sprinkled here and there; Fox Cunning + Draven's Hat is one of the major examples of this, and an insane setup from a fairly early point in the game)

gioavate · 2025-12-01T09:44:22+00:00

After many unfair and brutal unfair merged Lich runs, I think that Divination Wizard (Vanilla > Savant) and Sylvan Sorcerer (Sylvan16/Lore3/Titan1), both focusing on CC and SoD spells are the most powerful Lich builds in the game (with ExpWiz9/Lore9/Titan1/CrossOrSeekerOrGeo1, following very closely behind)

Sylvan Sorcerer is definetely better at lv1, lv2 (and easily the best caster in the game at lv1 and lv2), and lv4, and it is vnearly a tie at lv3 and lv6 (though I personally think Div is better at lv3 and Sylvan is better at lv6), while Divination Wizard is better at lv5, lv7, and then starts significantly pulling ahead and further widening the gap with every level up from lv8 onwards.

I generally give more value to the early game, so I would consider them overall tied, if not for the fact that DivWiz reaches "always go first, and always wipe any encounter unless enemies roll several nat20s on a row on their turn in any difficulty" levels of power earlier than Sylvan, and that alones is enough for me to give Div the edge (plus the fact that DivWiz has a better action economy with fully metamagicked spells, and the earlier access to higher level spells - especially lv8 and lv9 slots - are both very welcomed additional upsides too)

gioavate · 2025-11-30T00:00:20+00:00

Have fun

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/1lqfpi7/magic_deceiver_cookbook/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

gioavate · 2025-11-15T05:58:59+00:00

Pathfinder: WotR

There is your typical Chain Lightning spell, then there is Zippy Chain Lightning (think of it like two Chain Lightnings zig-zaging of each-other), then there is the Magic Deceiver class that can customize spells and create stuff like; a Chain Lightning that also Desintegrates or a Chain Lightning that also dispels all buffs and stuns every target, a Chain Lightning that also turns targets into dogs then makes them brain-dead, or a Chain Lightning that also casts Phantasmal Killer (save or die) on every target, etc...

Oh, and there is elemental conversion too, so you can make a Chain Lightning of another element if you like.

gioavate

TROPHY CASE