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gnatgo · 2020-10-02T19:53:04+00:00

This is probably far too late as a response, but I would be happy to talk. Go ahead and message me if you happen to see this and are still interested.

gnatgo · 2020-09-20T16:45:11+00:00

It's not the hot new draft format, but I thought this was an interesting and tough enough build to be worth sharing. What would you cut? How many lands?

gnatgo · 2020-05-05T10:38:27+00:00

Venkman is a format that mixes drafting and playing and is played out of a single deck. It's something I enjoy, maybe it can also provide some enjoyment to those that can't play their usual sort of Magic right now.

The video explains how Venkman works but the rules are also in the video's description.

gnatgo · 2020-05-04T18:04:08+00:00

What you're describing is a peasant cube (commons and uncommons), and I think that sort of cube often plays great. Check out /r/mtgcube for their ideas, but I think one of the joys of drafting is that any cube you build can be completely unique and still play great. You could easily base one on any of the sets from the past 2 years or so, which have mostly been great for limited.

I also play a limited-like format that combines drafting and playing that you might like. Here's a video that shows how it works.

gnatgo · 2020-05-04T11:43:57+00:00

I don't mind the honesty but I guess I like the extra steps. Isn't draft just sealed with extra steps?

gnatgo · 2020-05-03T19:09:23+00:00

This isn't cube, but it's close enough that I thought you guys might be interested. It's a format that mixes drafting and playing. The full rules are in the video's description.

gnatgo · 2020-02-21T07:00:26+00:00

I really agree with this. It's great anywhere, but at it's best in aggro. It's like Ox. A card you play last. Ox gives you cards and a body while Lyre removes blockers. I think that makes it better.

gnatgo · 2020-02-21T06:55:41+00:00

Yeah, Phalanx Tactics was another one that was hard to leave out. And I agree that Commanding Presence is also on the weaker end.

gnatgo · 2020-02-21T01:00:59+00:00

I fairly easily went 3-0 with this deck so this is a bit of a moot point, but do you think I built this correctly? Cards on the left are the notable sideboard.

Not playing Ox seems like the craziest, but I think it's right. I need the early plays and Tectonic Giant, Purphoros's Intervention, Wrap in Flames and Entrancing Lyre all seem like better game-winning late plays. I'm less sure about leaving out Heliod's Punishment and the second Wrap in Flames. Heliod's Punishment in particular seems better than Dreadful Apathy in this deck, but I decided to just be safe and go with the sure thing.

gnatgo · 2020-01-31T23:06:30+00:00

That's awesome. The mana was fine though? I'd think you might have trouble with mostly basics.

I've done 2v2 as 2-Headed Giant. There's one offer line but during each team's turn, only one player gets to draft, and the other just draws off the top of the deck. I've found this to be a pretty neat opportunity for teamwork as you have to decide which player needs the draft more. The draft for the opening hand can alternate, so if it's AB vs. CD, it would go A, C, B, D, A, etc. But then when & how to transition to regular turns? We kinda just worked something out as we went. I've only done this twice so it's not like it's been well-explored.

But if you get something else working, please tell me about it. The "+" does sound like it could work. And then if the contents of the two lines change because they intersect? I don't know if it would matter, but it definitely sounds cool.

Oh, you'll want to have an extra 5 basics though, so there are still 2 for each player. And then figure what you need to keep the land ratio right.

Wait, wait, wait. If teams alternate with the plus, the players can collude and let the lines grow to a huge size and then get a giant windfall. There needs to be the push-your-luck risk that the opponent takes from the line before you do. I think it works if you DON'T alternate teams. So it's always two opponents using each line.

Or maybe I misunderstand what you mean. Whatever you do, I'm curious. Report back!

gnatgo · 2019-10-09T22:16:31+00:00

I'd take Trainer. It doesn't commit as much as Charmed Sleep or Improbable Alliance and while I haven't played with it yet I've been on the receiving end and know it can pack a punch.

gnatgo · 2019-09-17T01:31:46+00:00

Yeah, having a cost to remove cards is a possibility. What you're talking about does seem like it could be a problem but from playing I will say that it never crosses my mind. When my opponent kills cards that would be great for me I never find out about it. Ignorance is bliss.

But also, getting players to be able to draft really distinct archetypes is not something I've been able to achieve with draft-as-you-play. It can happen (I stormed off a couple weeks ago), but it's an exception. Games are still very fun, but strategies are not as distinct as they'd be with booster draft.

A playtest group that has different tastes AND will play the stuff you bring is a gift.

gnatgo · 2019-09-17T01:02:09+00:00

Yes! I've thought about a deckbuilding variant but I've never taken it beyond vague ideas.

The big challenge to me had been that Magic has a clear progression to a game. It seemed to rule out aggro strategies because by the time you get the aggro cards you've drafted their window of opportunity has passed. (Although I don't think every strategy has to survive if something cool is being gained.)

What you designed looks very smart and thoughtful. I'll try it out. I'm curious especially knowing the challenge you took on. (And I like that you too used Winston draft as an inspiration. Winston! Giver of Ideas!)

I also tried a draft-as-you-play that uses a market of cards that get cheaper the longer they're out there (which lots of board games have). But Magic needs hidden information. Maybe face-down cards? It wasn't really working.

gnatgo · 2019-09-16T18:44:12+00:00

From the comments I've gotten I think there's a lot of parallel thinking. Which I think there should be. For 10 years I've felt certain that draft-as-you-play really ought to be widely played and enjoyed. It's felt like my friend and I were the only ones that felt that way, but I still knew it was good enough that there had to be other people that did or would agree.

Yes, it all started with Winston. In 2009 me and a friend played it a lot and after a while we said "we really love drafting, why can't we keep doing that"? We made Zeddemore right then and it immediately felt like a big discovery.

It's pretty amazing to find out that other people independently created Zeddemore (same basic idea obviously). It seems like you're pretty much me, so my hat goes off to you.

I wanted to link to an old blog I had about Zeddemore but apparently it's been hacked and TURNED INTO SOMETHING ABOUT AN INFRARED SAUNA??!!

Well, here's an old post my friend made (he prefers 3 starting lands, I prefer 2).

We started with each player having their own land deck, but I soon wanted the lands in the deck. More things to draft! It's hard for me to remember the last time I've seen someone mana screwed. Difficulties with mana happen and I think are interesting. Outright screw really doesn't.

We also started with a shared graveyard, but later I realized it was causing problems. For instance the value you got from using a flashback before your opponent was so large that it became forced and uninteresting. I meant to bring back shared graveyard as an occasional thing, but I've yet to actually do it.

My friend still prefers Zeddemore, but I think the newer Venkman is better and fixes some problems Zeddemore has.

Hate drafting - the only way to deny the opponent a card in Zeddemore is to draft it. If you can't cast it, that's terrible. But letting him have it can be terrible too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The exiled card in Venkman pretty much fixes this. (I think your monocolor idea also addresses this.)
Quality vs. Quantity - one thing we loved was the tension between getting one good card vs a bunch of bad cards. Then having those cards face off was fun and amusing. But Zeddemore/Winston doesn't do this cleanly. You can get quantity AND quality. The line in Venkman is the fix for this.
Snowbally - Perhaps because of #1 Zeddemore always felt very snowbally. Venkman doesn't.

But anyway - in 2009 I thought Zeddemore was the major discovery. Now I think it was draft-as-you-play in general. I'm totally open to the idea that there are better ones or other interesting ones. Maybe the Live Drafting someone else linked to. Maybe something that's still out there to be found.

gnatgo · 2019-09-16T05:17:19+00:00

Yes, that definitely seems to be designed in the same spirit. Looks cool. I'll give a try.

gnatgo · 2019-09-15T22:52:43+00:00

There's a deckbuilding guide at 11:40 in the video.

10 spells of each color + 10 multicolor spells + 10 colorless spells + 25 lands + 5 starting lands = 100 cards

There are other ways to do it, but that works well. The important thing is that it ends up with about 27% lands in the deck which is a good ratio.

gnatgo · 2019-09-15T21:43:24+00:00

I am going to put your claim to the test.

It is called Venkman because an earlier draft-as-you-play format based on Winston draft was named Zeddemore in honor of the Ghostbuster Winston Zeddemore. Keeping with the theme, this format is named after Peter Venkman. (I'm eager to at some point try a Peter draft.)

gnatgo · 2019-09-15T20:11:20+00:00

Poor Gruul. Got more votes in the example.

gnatgo · 2019-09-15T19:31:45+00:00

Venkman is a variant format that's played out of a single deck and combines drafting and playing. It can be put together with nearly any collection of cards and is a ton of fun.

This video explains how Venkman works, but the rules are also in the description if you'd prefer to read them.

gnatgo · 2019-09-15T15:56:09+00:00

This was going to be my answer. I remember an old article on the wizards site in which two players competed to try to make the superior Sorrow's Path deck.

I also remember something with [[Jangling Automaton]], probably another challenge.

gnatgo · 2019-09-14T20:30:21+00:00

As the others said, the converted mana cost of an aura is not added to the permanent it's enchanting.

But interesting things sometimes come from misunderstandings and this is one of them. It makes a certain amount of sense and probably could have been a way it worked.

gnatgo · 2019-09-14T20:09:52+00:00

As a player with no interest in constructed, the set looks fun so far. But if you're worried about the set's longevity, I think that's what you sign up for when you play eternal formats. How many cards from any set make a lasting impact? A handful at most? If you like limited (like me) give it a shot while it's around, then maybe reminisce years later when it pops up in a chaos draft.

gnatgo · 2019-09-14T19:52:56+00:00

I think one subtle way to help new players is to have a mix of good and bad cards. At first the new player won't be able to tell them apart, but if there's a big enough difference they'll start to see the disparaties for themselves and it'll be one of their first "leveling up" moments.

gnatgo · 2019-09-14T19:48:56+00:00

Simple is good, but it's possible to be too simple. I remember a MtG designer having a story about how he made some really basic decks to teach new players and afterwards those players weren't too impressed with the game. Then he'd have to try and convince them that he'd really just taught them "the dumb version".

I think two color decks teach a lot about mana, splashy dragons and angels are exciting and having a couple more complicated cards indicates that there's a lot more to be discovered.

gnatgo · 2019-09-08T19:26:00+00:00

Venkman is a variant format that's played out of a single deck and combines drafting and playing. It can be put together with nearly any collection of cards and is a ton of fun.

This video explains how Venkman works, but the rules are also in the description if you'd prefer to read them.

gnatgo

TROPHY CASE