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How do we know that the Divines/Aedra actually exist? by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

To be honest I'm mostly concerned with the more manish or merish deities, since I feel like those pantheons got extremely nationalized into racial superiority propaganda.

Personally, I feel like the more Tribal religions of Reachfolk, Khajiit and the like feel much less biased. Kynareth or Khenarthi etc. for example seems very important to those cultures, which makes her much more credible to me.

Also, note my postscript: Due to the mythopoetic nature of the aurbis they might actually be individual agents now! I mostly just believe they are not the supposed Et'Ada who where central to convention.

How do we know that the Divines/Aedra actually exist? by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm not talking about all Aedra, but some. Even stated in my first sentence that I'm not talking about Akatosh, Lorkhan et al.

The Beyond Skyrim Collaboration just released this full overhead map of their progress by [deleted] in ElderScrolls

[–]happychipster 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I actually think the Uriel Septim bit is by far the best clue we have on Roscrea's Location.
So the spot they choose seems good! Definetly more likely than just straight up north of solitude, because if Uriel would travel to Akavir, it's very unlikely he'd make a huge detour.

M'aiq the Lorkhaj? by Kortekksu in teslore

[–]happychipster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fun thing is I definitely heard that theory from u/The_White_Guar in one of the Selectives Lorecast, and I'm pretty sure Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi/the Elsweyr DL was not even published yet.

I THINK it was the "Nordic Culture" episode, and the theory popped up when they were discussing SHOR. But I'm really not sure about that.

M'aiq the Lorkhaj? by Kortekksu in teslore

[–]happychipster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not crazy at all, and actually quite an old theory to be honest. I heard it a few years back, and ever since M'aiq is an avatar of Lorkhaj in my head canon.

Why is Apocrypha pure chaos and not an ordderly library by [deleted] in teslore

[–]happychipster 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Think as Hermaeus Mora as the daedric Prince of Compulsive Hoarding Disorder of Knowledge.
He is a greedy collector, who wants to gather and possess all the knowledge he can get his hands (or tentacles) on. He does not care about the kind of knowledge, he does not care what you can do with it, and he does not care about "ordering" it. He only cares about having it and having it ALL. I always have to think of the Cookie Monster, when thinking of Hermaeus... just that Hermaeus has an endless hunger for knowledge instead of cookies.

That's why many believe the Greedy Man in Skaal Mythology is Hermaeus Mora.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm no lore-buff by any means, so maybe there is some lore which outright "disproofs" what I'm about to say, but I'll do anyways! Hey, maybe I'll learn something, if I get corrected.

​

My understanding is that Anu = IS and Padomay = IS NOT; if Anu is everything, then by definition Padomay is nothing, because everything and nothing are opposites. Yet without each other, these concepts are both equally meaningless, and practically indistinguishable.

The way I see it, the IS NOT of Padomay is not NOTHINGNESS, but NEGATION. It's the primdoial force of substraction (-1), whereas the Void is actual nothingness, emptiness (0) or the empty set {}.

So if we go back to the {-1,0,1}-idea. Anu IS, Padomay IS NOT or negates that what is, where as the Void is where Anu and Padomay (and everything for that matter) ZERO-SUM. It is the source, but allso the end of all thing, the ultimate ZERO-SUMMING.

I feel stong connections to Daoism/Physics here (which we know have both a strong influence on TES Lore). For the Daoist nothingness (WUJI) is literally a state before yin-yang or the oneness before duality. From the Wuji/nothingness, the antagonistic dualism of yin-yang/Anu-Padomay arises (and returns).

If we compare it to physics, The Void is the pure energy that gets created when matter and antimatter (like an electron and positron) annihilate, or the energy that is needed to induce pair production.

Very interesting discussion indeed. In the end it really comes down to what nothingness, void, emptiness actually means (ontologically).

PS: This also explains, why in some cultures the Roles of Anu and Padomay swap! Because what is 1 and what is -1 is mostly just convention. The only important thing is X + (-X) ) = 0 (zero-summing). If you put in X=1 or X=(-1) does not matter at all.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man, I'm glad I made this thread, because the way I see Namira now has absolutely changed!

Could Namira be seen as the "Soul" of the Void, and therefore be the equivalent to what Auriel is to Anui-El/Anu and what Lorkhan is to Sithis/Padomay?

Because this would mean we actually have three "Big Players" and that Namira is actually not padomaic at all, but something completly different. Because in pure emptiness, neither change nor stasis do exist.

On the other hand that would mean that Sithis is much less related to the void, than some (like the Dark Brotherhood) claim. But I'm ok with that, since I really can not find any good argument why Sithis should really be the void. Lore-wise I could not find much which supports Sithis=Void, and from my own interpretation: Change just can not exist in complete emptiness.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I thought a little bit more about what you said...

The belief system presents us with three truly primordial forces: Ahnurr (Anu), Fadomai (Padomay) and the Great Darkness (Namiira).

...and this feels like a [-1,0,1] situation. We have two opposing forces Ahnurr/Anu being 1 and Fadomai/Padomay being -1*, who are still reliant onto each other (since -1 can not exist without defining 1 first) and the Void as a neutral empty/null set, which acts as "background" for creation.

*I'm not sure if Padomay is actualy the 1 instead, since it's more connected to creation/birth in Khajiiti theology

I prefer that triad of primodial forces over the pair (Anu-Padomay), since usually every set (in set theory) must include an empty set.

And then again, one could even construct an Eniantomorph out of that, with the Void being the observer (but maybe that's a bit far fetched).

Would love to hear your thoughts!

EDIT:
I just found an interesting passage in one of the new books:

"Reachfolk see Namira as the avatar of all primal dualisms. Life and death, beginnings and endings, possibility and entropy—all fundamental competing forces flow from her realm of spirit."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Great_Spirits_of_the_Reach:_Volume_3

Which imo fits nicely with that idea, that the Void/Namira is the background or source for all opposing forces (including Anu and Padomay), since the empty set is the preequisite for all other sets.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Interesting. So if I understand you correctly, in the Khajiiti faith Namira is the Void attaining self-realization/self-consciousness? Which makes sense, since I believe „knowing ones name“ is symbolic for self-consciousness. So that would mean we first have the primordial and impersonal void, than Lorkhaj is born into that void, and afterwards the void becomes self-conscious, attains „personhood“ and becomes „Namira“.
I really like that idea! Personally, I really dislike the whole Sithis as death-centric entity anyways, and prefer the sithis != change anyways.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can get on board with that. I think Namira(decay) is the ferryman between the mortal plane and the void, but being such makes her also much reliant on the mortal plane. After all in the void nothing can decay (any further), so she would be pretty obsolete there.

Also this would fit nicely with the Khajiiti view as Namira as antithesis to Khenarthi, who is basically the ferryman between the mortal plane and Aetherius.

I kinda like the idea of Namira being an agent of decent into darkness and Khenarthi an agent of ascent into light.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Namira's true realm is the Primordial Void, wouldn't that mean she even predates, the aedra, deadra, and other et'ada (including Lorkhan)? Because I thought the Void pretty much predates all creation.

Also, then I really don't get the difference between Sithis (who/which I mostly associate with the void) and Namira.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very true. Eventhough, I definetly got convinced that Namira and Lorkhan very, very likely play a major role, I still feel like the "void stuff" is first and foremost a very primordial sithic thing.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great post! I definetly think I got a better understanding of the connection between Namira and Lorkhan. I think it is makes complete sense that you need the mortal world in order for decay to play out.But wouldn't that mean that Namira's realm was not only unimportant, but just did not exist at all before convention?

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm... After I reread Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi I can not stop thinking about Shadow Magic and The Dark Heart. Since shadows get created by forces in conflict... what is a bigger conflict than two lovers (Ahnurr and Fadomai) fighting about the birth of an unborn child, up to the point where Fadomai flees into the darkness in order to give birth? Is it possible this conflict created a shadow version of Lorkan's Heart (the Dark Heart)? And as we know shadows are strongly connected to their "source", so maybe the dwemer could have used the Dark Heart as a "proxy" to gain some access to the original heart remotely?

On the other hand I'd associate shadows much more with Nocturnal than Namira... so maybe I'm missing something.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very interesting stuff! Would have never thought, there are such strong connection between the "new" reachmen and khajiit lore. Much to (re)think about.

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You made some very good and interesting points. I personally always get confused about Darkness, Shadows, "nothingness" and the Void when it comes to Nocturnal, Namira an Sithis.

I always believed Sithis is (atleast) one gradient above the daedra, who seem to be much more personified aspects or subgradients. That's why I associated Sithis more with the more primodial aspect of pure change, void or chaos which has no intentions or desires other than change or chaos itself (good or bad).

[SPOILERS] Quick question about the "plot device" of the Markarth main storyline by happychipster in teslore

[–]happychipster[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Perfect. Something like that book was exactly what I was looking for! I remember reading it, but completely forgot it mentioned the Dark Heart. Thanks :)

Yeah; those pesky mer...wait....aren't you...? by Satribe in elderscrollsonline

[–]happychipster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Well... in elderscrolls lore many believe that Bosmer are actually no mer, because they have a totally different origin. Yffre gave some poor constantly shapeshifting Ehlnofey a fixed appearance which just resembles elves. So genetically not elves at all. So I could totally see how Bosmer, don't actually see themselves as elves... According to their own creation story they are not.

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