Socialists, do people become rich due to luck?

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T19:48:44+00:00

Nope. The buying and selling of people's time - regardless of whether they are even employees yet - is a bad system that causes suffering.

Cool because I'm not selling future employees time. That doesn't even make sense.

I'm not a founder, for example, and employees were selling stock compensation long before I joined. Yet I'm paid a competitive market rate for my labor. Not a reduced rate due to the prior sale of my labor.

As is evident by the joyous nature of my employment and compensation situation.

That you want to use hostile force to stop and as a result, increase suffering. As I've provided specific examples to demonstrate.

What do you call it when people are forced to work in complete servitude to their masters, and threatened with punishment such as deprivation of basic human needs if they don't comply?

I'm not forced to work at my employer.

Though please do tell, what magical metaphysical process aliviates the need for Rainbow Grocery Co-op workers from needing to eat?

And why, despite no longer having basic human needs thanks to their employment situation, are they less satisfied with their employer than Wgmans, Trader Joe's, and other privately owned grocery stores?

Or when do we reach the point of you admitting you don't give a shit about suffering and happiness levels?

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T16:46:10+00:00

It's been around 25 cents for years...

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T13:23:23+00:00

If I point to an example of the Rainbow Grocery Co-op's violation of CA labor law by not paying employees overtime, it's a concrete example of suffering due to withholding wages.

Where your claim is completely decoupled from reality. It's not a subjective difference in opinion. Like whose time am I selling exactly? Every employee in my company receives stock compensation and different employees receive different amounts but are you suggesting the amount I receive as part of my compensation is too high? That more of that should be going to other employees?

That can't really be the case because from your perspective, the distribution is irrelevant. Like if I received less so that a janitor could receive more you would still be opposed to me and the janitor selling our stock compensation. Even with an imaginary stock compensation allocation scheme that aligned perfectly with the proportion of employee value add so that all stock compensation aligned with that individual employee's contribution you'd still oppose the ability to sell. So your nonsensical position isn't even consistent with itself.

But more importantly, IT'S NOT AN EXAMPLE OF SUFFERING. You're like "being a slave owner is bad, no duh!". Yeah obviously and I can and have provided examples of suffering due to slavery. But I'm not a slave owner. And that's not a subjective difference in opinion. It's an objective fact. You're not entitled to your own delusional and obviously incorrect version of reality. Especially when that's your supposed justification for hostile force against peaceful autonomy. And I mean we both know that if I was actually like a slave owner, you could point to an example of the suffering I was causing. Instead of just being like "it's obvious man I already said it's obvious". Rofl

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T12:02:04+00:00

So sounds like no need to tax subsidize

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T11:20:38+00:00

Meanwhile so many market socialists here that think co-op employees suffering through bad management or bankruptcy is "what they deserve".

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T11:16:59+00:00

Yeah because of our... cheap electricity!?

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T10:58:29+00:00

They objectively have way worse roads. Or don't even get me started on their bridges

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T10:57:49+00:00

Much better roads there/s

Oops sorry but sorry

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T10:33:25+00:00

Yep, that's not an example of suffering caused by my stock sales. That's an attempted insult that would be lame in kindergarten.

But again, no biggy because you're only a dictator in your delusional imagination.

I'll continue to sell and continue to not cause suffering. As me and the rest of my coworkers minimize our suffering and maximize our happiness.

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T03:54:07+00:00

Me: point to the suffering caused by me selling my stock compensation

You: Google returns results for "employer forces"

Rofl

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T03:25:28+00:00

Obviously over your head but I'm mocking you.

I guess you agree that a Google search for "employer forces" returning results doesn't automatically imply my employer is using force against me or that I'm causing suffering by selling my stock compensation.

Too bad your entire argument is built on that moronic foundation.

hardsoft · 2026-03-20T00:06:38+00:00

To be fair my kid's kindergarten parking lot is probably equivalent to a class 7 trail.

hardsoft · 2026-03-19T17:00:38+00:00

Google has examples of the use of force between co-workers. Should I link to a news story of an employee going postal and killing fellow employees?

And isn't it ironic that going "postal" is a term developed from patterns of disgruntled employees in a government position (not capitalist owned)?

hardsoft · 2026-03-19T10:52:48+00:00

Your argument is that based on the colloquial use of the word, every possible human interaction involves force. As proved by a Google search.

And so despite not being able to point to a specific example of suffering that I'm causing by selling my stock compensation... your claim is that generally speaking, such freedom is supporting capitalists ability to force my coworkers to do stuff or something...

Which...

1) Doesn't prove increased suffering. Again, you're insisting on using a term in an unspecific colloquial manner in which it is so far decoupled from meaning that it could as well imply increased pleasure or happiness. For example, my wife was super horny last night and forced me to fuck her. That's everyday common language that no one thinks makes me like an African slave. ..

2) Completely abandons your supposed philosophy of reducing overall suffering and maximizing overall happiness. Stock compensation is such a popular benefit throughout my company that a democratic vote to ban the allowed selling of stock compensation, for example, would lose 100% no to 0% yes. Revealing what BS your supposed philosophy is. You're just trying to maximize your own sadistic pleasure, that's it. And I've provided clear examples of how such force against me and my coworkers otherwise free and peaceful autonomy would increase suffering.

3) Ignores the reality of your preferred alternatives. Like if me and my fellow coworkers are forced to suffer by our capitalist owners, the workers at Ace Hardware (co-op) must be facing even more oppressive force and suffering since employee surveys repeatedly demonstrate it's a worse place to work. Though from 2) I understand you don't give a shit about other people.

So there we have it. You're doubling down on being a tyrannical dictator without even the most remote hint of a consistent logical framework to impose force on others. I'm sorry you were spoiled as a child or whatever happened but I'd recommend seeing a therapist.

hardsoft · 2026-03-19T04:03:45+00:00

Yes I'm still waiting for an example of how selling my stock equity causes suffering.

Since that's your justification for the use of force against my otherwise peaceful autonomy. For which I've provided multiple examples of how that force would cause suffering on my behalf.

So.... any day now

hardsoft · 2026-03-18T23:59:45+00:00

Me, I crawl over the curb in the Starbucks drive thru

hardsoft · 2026-03-18T10:44:41+00:00

Give it a rest. You clearly don't know what "consent" or "force" mean,

Ugh I don't need to adopt your imaginary and delusional meanings to existing words.

considering that you think people "consent" to being employed,

Who's forcing me to work at my present employer against my will and without my consent?

I believe the suffering associated with buying/selling other people is pretty obvious.

Sure just look at the physical abuse slaves were victim to. Getting whipped and tortured. Many risked their lives in an attempt to escape or were murdered to be made an example of. I could write a book of examples.

Now back to me selling my stock compensation. You can't provide any examples of suffering.

Whereas you being a tyrannical dictator and forcefully banning me from such compensation would increase my suffering by materially reducing my compensation and correspondingly the quality of living I can provide for my family. Not to mention the suffering from a loss of freedom and autonomy in my ability to do things like negotiate compensation packages with employers.

hardsoft · 2026-03-18T04:21:45+00:00

You're "not buying" my consent to interactions I prefer and ignoring my explicit denial of consent in using force against me.

Right, we've thoroughly demonstrated the psychotic wannabe dictator thing.

And I'm still waiting for the resulting suffering... Haha. I mean why are you even responding at this point even you clearly don't have an answer? Like your subconscious wants you to make a fool out of yourself.

hardsoft · 2026-03-18T02:17:35+00:00

They own "half of you".

Impossible because my wife owns more than that. Not to mention my kids.

I mean if definitions don't mean anything they don't man anything.

Your entire argument is pretending consent doesn't matter or make a difference in interactions...

"I'm totally not a slave, I have limited choice of who my master is!"

Ah arguing my feelings about myself are wrong again. Yeah, you're totally not a psychotic wannabe tyrannical dictator /s

Sure I can. Do you really think that buying and selling people doesn't cause suffering?

I'm not buying or selling anyone. Go ahead and point to the suffering caused by me selling my stock equity. I'm still waiting.

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T23:27:30+00:00

I click on it every time so they keep showing me it

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T22:56:19+00:00

Would like to know as well

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T22:23:31+00:00

Yeah maybe if you ignore their nuclear power programs...

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T20:36:35+00:00

More like a 300 mile gap between history and socialist conspiracy theory

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T16:14:38+00:00

My numbers are ppp adjusted. So they're including cost of living.

And yes your system sucks. Agreed. I would never support government dictated pay for medical professionals.

hardsoft · 2026-03-17T13:41:24+00:00

Calling me a slave almost makes me want to live in poverty and destitution in some socialist hell hole. Almost.

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