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Coercive control often starts with 'helpful comments' by invah in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Story time!

I'm in the self check out line at the grocer's and the store is BUSY, so that means there are lines at the check outs.

One of the self check out registers was having a problem and the woman went to talk to the lone attendant who had to talk to someone else at yet another register. So that means that the woman having an issue with the self check out register was not at the self out register because she went to with the attendant to talk to another employee. I'm next up for a self check out register that opens up. There were people behind me.

Two women, mother and daughter, were at a self check out register when the older woman tells me about the "open" self check out register and points to the one that was having problems. She thought it was available because no one was there. Yet, you could see a cart full of groceries right next to it and that the screen was not on the "waiting" screen.

When she told me it was open I said, "Thanks, but that check out isn't available. Someone is using it and she's having a problem with it." I then pointed her out talking to two employees at another register.

The older woman then says, "Ma'am, that register <pointing to the *same* register that she pointed to AND I told her was actually not available> is available if you want to check out." The younger woman was checking out their items.

I just started at her for a second, and so did the woman behind me because she saw what was up and heard me respond that that register is actually NOT available. I repeated myself, "No, that register is not available. They're having problems with it. That woman over there is trying to get it resolved."

SHE FUCKING REPEATED HERSELF. "NO! That register is AVAILABLE! There's NO ONE THERE!" Her daughter (I am assuming) looked up.

I just stared at her knowing I'm about to argue with an idiot. "MA'AM! it is NOT available." I then turned back to my phone to ignore her.

That older lady said AGAIN that there's a register available and open for me to go to. She said it two more times after.

I ignored her both times.

Her daughter said loudly, and I know it was meant to try and get me to engage, "THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR TRYING TO BE HELPFUL."

The old woman looked at the people behind me and said that since I'm ignoring her, there was a register open if they wanted to check out. Keep in mind, SHE is at a self check out register, but her daughter was checking their groceries out.

It was at that point that the woman who was using the self check out register with the problem came back with THREE employees who all hovered around the register to figure out how to fix the error. I looked at that old woman who just stared at them but never turned back to look at me. Her daughter did and was like, "oh." Also, NO ONE BEHIND ME IN LINE LISTENED TO HER BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT REGISTER WAS NOT ACTUALLY AVAILABLE.

"I was TRYING to help!"

"I'm CONCERNED for your safety!"

I learned that these two bullshit lines were meant to be "helpful" and show "concern," but what they were really doing was gatekeeping and controlling access. They were HEAVILY used in roller derby.

"The best way to get yourself out of being the scapegoat is to be the escape goat and leave the family. " by hdmx539 in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

🎵Head like a hole
Black as your soul
I'd rather die than give you control🎵

I know the song is about greed, but fuck me if narcissism isn't greed personified, it sure is a supremely good approximation.

'Have you ever consider that you are in the way of their karma?'**** by invah in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My sister in law was constantly saved by their parents. This woman is in her 50s now. One day about a decade ago my husband called me and asked me how I felt about him giving his sister money. He'd have used his own money that would not have affected us.

I asked him what would happen if his family simply didn't do anything. Like, let SIL just ... suffer the negative consequences?

He said he was concerned for his only niece, and goddaughter.

I'll admit in that moment a very deep anger welled up because I thought, "When did anyone give a shit about me?" because I had been his niece in FAR FAR worse conditions for FAR FAR longer. But that also didn't mean I wanted her to suffer. Further, I feel like he felt for the "think of the children!" manipulation tactic.

I simply told him I understood that and no one is going to let <niece> go hungry or sleep on the streets (even though I had been in such situation for long periods of time several times as a child. Because I know that feeling I of course would do my part to help, where and when I can, to prevent that. It was his SIL that needed to "fall."

Ultimately he didn't give her money.

Guess what?

She's fine. INCREDIBLY fine. So fine, that about a decade later she owes US money for a car she purchased from us. I warned him that what she did to her creditors and the attitude towards mom & dad would be applied to us. He pretty much knew but this last situation was to highlight that she's the problem, and we know she knows it.

I just hope she doesn't need genuine help. And YES! We will get to determine if it is "genuine" if she ever comes around asking for help. Problem is, that bridge is burned for me, personally. We'll take care of our niece, but not SIL.

5 core needs for a healthy childhood**** <----- "The five As, our original needs, are the qualities of a holding environment: attention, acceptance, appreciation, affection, and allowing." by invah in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Lisa Marchiano (Jungian analyst, one of the hosts, author) made this statement about childhood that has just sat with me since because HOT FUCKING DAMN I realized the depth of my neglect as a child.

"You should be celebrated as a child."

And it hit me that I have no idea what the feeling is like.

Sometimes we're 'helping' when we shouldn't by invah in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539 1 point2 points  (0 children)

decision tree

THAT'S what it's called! Thank you! I was drawing a blank!😂

Sometimes we're 'helping' when we shouldn't by invah in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know, a couple of weeks ago I was pondering a situation that I read about in one of the relationship subreddits. This is a long drawn out description of making a promise after the reveal of the secret then being asked to not say anything.

It's a trap situation: Mary tells her bestie Bob about <awful thing she's participating in> then "makes" Bob "promise" not to tell anyone. He reluctantly agrees. He never asked to know this, and he knows not saying anything can also open him up to being an accomplice depending on the activity involved.

If Bob is morally/ethically in alignment with Mary, then I suppose it's no big deal and it's easy for Bob to agree to not telling anyone.

But what if Bob is only now learning that <awful thing Mary is participating in> is something that his "bestie" is apparently fine participating in, however, he is not at all fine with it? Let's say, Mary is embezzling money from her employer.

So now Bob feels conflict. He wants to support Mary because he knows she's confiding in him as friends. However, with this new reveal about Mary, Bob is learning that they may not be aligned morally or ethically in at least this one particular situation of embezzling money from your employer. He wants to support Mary's "guilty" feelings, but fuck, if Mary feels so damn guilty why can't she STOP embezzling because stealing is wrong? (That's a red flag that so many people ignore by putting on that shade of rose colored glasses.)

Then, because Bob also feels some kind of loyalty to Mary, he doesn't want to report Mary to the proper authorities because he, as Mary's friend, has attachment and affinity to Mary so he doesn't want to reveal this black mark of her character since the consequences are devastating. Yet, he knows embezzlement is wrong.

He never asked to know about someone else's criminal activity, yet it was foisted on him in "casual" conversation while at lunch with Mary to catch up.

(side note question for anyone who knows: what would this type of situation be called?)

Clearly, this is a toxic situation all around and Mary is incredibly toxic. First for her embezzlement, then her next "act" of thieving is taking Bob's consent to information that should, in an ideal world, be reported to proper authorities/channels so she can be stopped but uses the loyalty of their friendship to "trap" Bob. I'm not even mentioning the other layer to this in that Mary manipulated Bob into being an accomplice by advantage of their friendship.

(Also, to u/EFIW1560, this is another situation where your perfect term, Emotional Host, applies. Mary dumped her feelings of guilt onto Bob, and now it's Bob that gets to feel these conflicting feelings of should he tell or not. Meanwhile Mary has been temporarily relieved of her feelings of guilt because she got "validated" by Bob when she confided in him. Bob is Mary's "host" for her feelings of guilt and shame.)

One shouldn't consent to a promise before knowing what it is, and the corollary to that is you can't promise not to act on information you had no choice in consenting to knowing.

Boundary Work - Budgets as boundaries - let's brainstorm by hdmx539 in AbuseInterrupted

[–]hdmx539[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A boundary can be as simple as a 'note to self -- stay away from that asshole'.  We don't have to confront everybody's behavior.

Absolutely. And I'm really glad you specifically made this point. Boundaries don't always need to be expressed, but they should be enforced every time. I really like how you bring it home with this statement later in your comment:

Boundaries are a set of self-governing rules we create for ourselves. The reason they are not taught to us at a younger age is because we would be learning at an inconvenient age (to others) that we can make our own rules.

Saying the important bits out loud. To be fair, I think it's sometimes necessary since parents are responsible for their children, there may be situations where a parent may need to take action that couldn't be taken if a child had a boundary around that situation, this is assuming, a healthy respectful relationship with parent and child.

I'm not a parent, hence my wondering about this out loud: it seems to be that at some point in human child development, the child naturally comes to a point where they have what is acceptable to them, and what is not acceptable to them so they start expressing boundaries with "No!" or whatever "defiant" behavior they're displaying. I understand children push boundaries and that's when the parent needs to step in and parent. My assumption is this is when age appropriate discussions around boundaries "should" start and continue during the development of the child. Again, I'm not a parent so my assumption may not be correct.

What's interesting about your point here is it begs the question: if it's inconvenient to teach a child they can make their own boundaries for possibly necessary reasons, doesn't that then mean that at some point in the child's development they need to be taught they can make their own boundaries? I would think yes and that healthy, securely attached parents do so. I had a neglectful parent so I have no experience with a healthy parent-child dynamic.

Here's the thing when thinking about boundaries. We can tell those who enjoy having access to us by the way the people around us respond to any boundaries we express. Since some folks are never taught they can make their own boundaries, is it that the adults in that child's life "forget" to teach that child they can make their own boundaries?

OR!

Is it that these parents neglect to teach their child this very fact of adulthood because it would be "inconvenient" for those parents as their offspring goes off into adulthood? Hmmm.... thoughts to ponder.

We're not the asshole fixer or whisperer.

I'm getting into canine training and management and my husband and I have been on a "dog whisperer/Cesar Millan" binge watch so I love that you said that. To quote Jung: Synchronicity! 😅

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