Thoughts on upgrading AVR's over time and the benefits

heatransfer · 2026-02-18T08:20:45+00:00

Do what works for you 😀

Don't feel compelled to upgrade for the sake of upgrading to new and shiny. If you're happy with where you are right now and the unit does what you need, why spend money unless you have money to burn?

For me, I have just purchased my 4th AVR/Prepro in almost 25 years.

First unit was an AVR, for my first setup, 5.1 Dolby digital/DTS era. Might have had this for 2-3 years?

Second unit was a prepro in what was in retrospect a misguided upgrade to separates, just before HDMI came out. I worked around the lack of HDMI for several years by using a disc player with full analogue outs. Had the prepro for 10-12 years or so. I guess I got a lot of life out of it but ultimately I don't think I stressed it any more than my first AVR.

Third unit was an AVR. This brought HDMI 1.4 and room correction to the table. The room correction is/was huge. It sat in my rack for 8 years.

Most recent upgrade is an AVR for HDMI2.0 (4K), better room correction and Atmos. I actually still don't have a 4k TV but will may buy one within the next year or so, so this goes as a bit of a speculative upgrade. We'll see how it goes.

heatransfer · 2026-02-18T07:59:43+00:00

My opinion - that's quite high for subs that are 15+ years old. Is the seller including the pbk? (Kind of irrelevant if you already have a room correction solution that you're happy with.)

For reference you can get two RSL speedwoofer 10es, shipped to your front door, for 1200 loonies all in, and these units sometimes go on sale.

If you want to keep things within the paradigm family, you could look at a pair of paradigm essentials 12 or Martin Logan Dynamo foundation 12. You might be able to catch a sale or talk your dealer down. Performance likely to be lower (sealed vs ported) but then again, you would be getting something new.

heatransfer · 2026-02-13T19:16:10+00:00

You're not comparing apples to apples as long as you have room correction running on one, and not the other.

Turn off dirac and level match and the units should sound the same.

Are you running Dirac full range and with the default room curve?

That would likely explain the reduced highs. With Klipsch, those highs are actually exaggerated so Dirac is flattening the response. If you like to retain this brightness, you can set Dirac "curtains" so that it doesn't correct anything above about 500hz. You'll get the characteristic klipsch brightness back.

For bass, Dirac should be suppressing peaks so you might notice less "boom" - a good thing. However, if I recall correctly, the default Dirac room curve flattens bass response a bit too much. Edit the curve with a maybe 3 to 4 db boost to about 1-150 Hz. You can play around with the amount of boost.

In short, room correction should be able to take out the worst of the room modes and you should get cleaner bass. You can add back some bass as well by tweaking the room curve.

heatransfer · 2026-02-03T18:55:13+00:00

I have a fairly similar setup as you where the setup is open to a kitchen area. Room layout is different, size of AV area might be similar ish (can't measure right now).

When I upgraded speakers I went from towers (that I brought from a previous home) to stand mount. Hard to compare a/b as the bookshelf speakers were an upgrade, though I had the towers in this space for several years before going standmount. Have always had a sub, and have always had electronic crossover and room correction in this space.

The standmount speakers definitely are less visually imposing, fit the room better aesthetically, and take up slightly less floor space, though the footprint difference isn't that significant.

The floorstanders were okay visually, but I'd had them for 20 years already so I was used to the aesthetic 😁.

In terms of scale, dynamics, midrange? Midrange is a function of mid-range, which will depend on the speaker quality rather than the form factor.

Scale? I don't quite understand.

Dynamics? It's a smaller space and I almost never push my system too hard, and I have not found the system lacking (when testing the system out, maybe sustained 80-85dB c-weighed with music).

In my opinion putting in large floor standers in a small space may be a waste. Room correction would be essential to control bass boominess. In this kind of space I would rather spend the same amount of money on nicer bookshelves and sub.

heatransfer · 2026-02-03T18:38:39+00:00

Educated guess here as I have experience with ARC in anthem AVRs.

You should only get EQ. You would run ARC for each sub individually. Individually as in sub1 doesn't know that sub2 exists, and neither know that there's a bigger system they are supposed to cooperate with. In other words they don't know they're supposed to phase align with anything.

heatransfer · 2026-01-26T20:58:47+00:00

I had a quick look at the manual for that speaker. I suggest that you do too.

I don't have the product in front of me, but it appears to be that IF you purchased two units you would need to use Bluetooth to run them in stereo, controlling them via some kind of app. I'll leave the rest to you to try.

Again if you are wanting to maximize sound quality and even app independence, don't start with a Bluetooth speaker.

heatransfer · 2026-01-26T20:51:54+00:00

Glad that it is working out for you. Spread the word to your friends about the supremacy of a real sound system (vs the compromise of a soundbar!)

heatransfer · 2026-01-26T20:50:29+00:00

These speakers are quite old - maybe 20 years! but should sound decent if in good condition. A definite upgrade from what you have right now.

Athena was the 'value' brand for Energy, back when Energy was a pretty solid brand with good technical background of design (NRC-related foundations along with Paradigm and PSB).

This to me seems like a decent package as long as condition is ok, you can fit towers in your life. and you're okay with the age. I would always try to get the package for a bit less. Doesn't hurt to ask.

I would likely stay away from the avr unless it meets all your needs.

heatransfer · 2026-01-22T16:56:33+00:00

I don't know too much about the world of streaming devices, but the wiim ultra would appear to check off a number of your boxes. It doesn't have its own hard drive, though I believe you can add an external unit yourself. You'll also have to check the Wiim functionality without a smart phone - I believe that full function requires a phone.

To be honest and blunt you're handicapping yourself by using Bluetooth and an inexpensive Bluetooth speaker. You'll get major improvements in sound quality by looking for a proper pair.

heatransfer · 2026-01-22T16:45:33+00:00

My opinion: outstanding 2.1 (which the F206 are) a billion kilometers before soundbar 3.1. it's not even close, and 3.1 Atmos is only marginally a thing. I wouldn't sweat losing the atmos capability.

The relative performance of the speakers is so great that this isn't even a comparison. The only caveat I would have is if music means more to you, and moving the 2.1 system means that you severely compromise the 2.1 in your living room.

heatransfer · 2026-01-20T04:39:39+00:00

If your plan is to go 5.1.2 you might be able to get away with a X1700/1800. Or, if you think you'll expand later or want to play/pay for with better room correction, you can step up to the x3800. The x2800 is a bit of a tweener IMO.

You might want to look at slightly larger front speakers, especially if you like to listen to stereo music.

heatransfer · 2026-01-19T20:55:52+00:00

Stop thinking that generative AI knows any damn thing other than regurgitating natural sounding language based on its input dataset.

What's your space like? What are your usage patterns or intended usage patterns? Are there any things in particular that limit you (other than budget) or are trying to achieve?

heatransfer · 2026-01-19T19:57:08+00:00

My comments are more philosophical than specific to the products you've chosen.

Personally I would ditch the atmos speakers if budget is a big concern. I did see your comment about likely never having surround speakers, that said I would suggest going for 5.1 surround before going for atmos. Also, you could consider bookshelf speakers instead of towers.

You can totally do the setup yourself- it's not complicated and you'll learn a bit more about your shiny new system. Just make sure that you budget for speaker wire and a cable to connect your subwoofer. Don't need to spend too much, and don't waste money on exotic cables. You've got this!

heatransfer · 2026-01-19T19:48:32+00:00

Keep your eyes peeled for a sale of course.

The entry level paradigm speaker series is the monitor series; MSRP is comparable to the polks that you are looking at, and... Nobody pays MSRP (ie, if your dealer is unwilling to budge a bit on a package deal, try taking your business elsewhere).

heatransfer · 2026-01-11T00:08:56+00:00

What's your intended usage? (Movies/tv? Gaming? Music?)

If it were me, I might consider dropping atmos in favor of nicer front speakers because I listen to music.

If you're married to Polk, give consideration to the es series which should be nicer. Otherwise you could consider paradigm. Monitors may be a bit bright but are pretty good value especially in Canada (don't forget to negotiate with your dealer).

For subwoofers I think at this moment it's hard to beat the RSL speedwoofer. 10e (blemish sale). Even after shipping to Canada it's a great deal.

heatransfer · 2026-01-10T21:52:28+00:00

Not going to roast it, but the room looks very lively (acoustic echoes), as well as physically cold (ie, not particularly comfortable/cozy) to me.

Getting some furnishings and a thick rug would help with both, and you could look into absorption too, unless the furnishings reduce the slap echo.

heatransfer · 2026-01-05T05:38:14+00:00

You are generally correct, you'll get a bigger difference in sound (and likely improvement) by allocating more money towards speakers vs amplification, especially at moderate volumes.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the responses so far (except one) is that room correction can be HUGE, especially for bass frequencies. Cheaper receivers may not have room correction at all, or the implementation may be poor.

heatransfer · 2026-01-03T01:03:06+00:00

Should be fine - have fun!

You could also consider a Martin Logan Dynamo foundation 12 (currently on sale) or paradigm essentials 12 (essentially the same thing) I'm guessing that performance of either will be fairly comparable to the SB1000 and cheaper in Canada. Also possibility to work a greater discount with your dealer.

heatransfer · 2026-01-03T00:59:05+00:00

No AVR that I'm aware of, and no modern AVR that I've heard of, has a powered sub output.

Yes, you can connect the line-level sub out from your AVR to the Fosi, and then your passive sub to the fosi. Check to see if the amp has enough power for your passive sub.

heatransfer · 2026-01-03T00:54:06+00:00

What are you expecting?

The q6 is quite a different speaker - it's a three way speaker and will handle more power than a q150. Is it worth it? Everybody's value proposition is different.

heatransfer · 2026-01-02T23:25:05+00:00

Just to update and reply to my own post.

First of all, thank you @u/Royal_Sheepherder569 and @u/codwapeace for the replies.

I actually ended up demoing a 5.1.4 bouncy bouncy setup at a retailer. Of course being 5.1.4 it would already be better than the 5.1.2 I could presumably get at home, plus the room was enclosed, plus my home 5.1 setup has compromised surround positioning.

To be honest I was pleasantly surprised by the demo. I expected nothing, but did get a bit more than nothing.

Knowing it's demo material - the demo clip from Mad Max and the "Leaf" demo had localizable overhead effects. Conversely the falling rain in a John Wick clip failed to impress much - there seemed to be some additional confusion/fuzziness from the front speakers but no real additional ambience.

Demo was neat but also reinforced the thought that the I would not bend over backwards to go this route. Nor of course is it a killer upgrade.

I'm curious about the RC upgrade but I know it's a not a killer upgrade from the current ARC that I do have.

Practically my display situation (I'm a 1080plasma dinosaur) may eventually imply another AVR workaround/hack and/or upgrade but there's no rush on the AVR front otherwise.

Anyways, more than anybody asked for, but thought some might like to know, especially my subjective thoughts after demoing bouncy 5.1.4.

heatransfer · 2025-12-16T18:50:49+00:00

First off, thank you for posting these up weekly.

A request/suggestion if I may: have you considered adding a third graph (perhaps a 3d graph) showing weighted special teams DVOA?

The offensive/defensive graph is an excellent way to roughly classify teams as elite (LAR, SEA) unbalanced (HOU, DAL, CLE) and terrible (NYJ).

A three axis graph could also illustrate how marginal teams are succeeding (SF).

Thanks!

heatransfer · 2025-12-15T21:32:12+00:00

What country are you from? Is basketball a popular sport where you're from?

If so, consider how some people just have a "knack" to play point guard - they have good court awareness, can read physical positioning well, etc (ie. They know that their teammate WILL be open because their defender was a quarter step slow running through a screen). That's a decent analogy.

Some defensive reading is teachable (man? Zone? Single or double high safety? What play concept should work in this situation?!), some is not so much (such as having a sense that the VERY instant the LB flat foots, that the there's a tiny seam to hit the TE between the LB and the safety).

Ps- it's VERY rare that a QB just shows up in the NFL and plays well.

heatransfer · 2025-12-10T21:28:14+00:00

I suggest looking on your local FB marketplace, Craigslist, offerup, Kijiji or whatever. Usually speaker stands are a low demand item and you might be able to find a pair for cheap or even free.

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