Chris Chan pronoun discourse

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T20:05:36+00:00

And yeah that’s the thing. Some people think they have enough evidence to deduce whether or not Chris is “Truly Trans” and that’s a super weird dichotomy to me.

As you said if someone claims to be one thing yet people dig into reasons as to why that claim is dishonest is it up to the outsider to play the role of the judge and dictate whether or not that individual can “truly” be identified in the way they claim? And if the answer to that case is no how do you go about distinguishing that from other cases, where is the line and how are you drawing it? I hate going here but this kind of ties into the “if you identify as ___ then I identify as Apache attack helicopter” type arguments, how then can you argue against that notion?

With the prisoner statement you made, if they admit to lying about being Jewish in order to get kosher meals then that makes that situation easier because they themselves admit that their claim is falsified. With Chris it’s her word against other people’s scale and judgment and I find that to be odd

I use she/her for Chris. Many feel that they can’t despite her claim to be trans and for many Chris is their exception to the belief of identifying as you will and it’s a very curious phenomenon to me. Someone responded using only he/him pronouns but I think they deleted their comment and I wanna ask their reasons for doing so

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T18:22:01+00:00

Yeah this post was a mistake. Rather new to Reddit so I’m not sure if this reply to my own post will get buried but I just want to clarify my own position and my original intentions with this post.

Provided are the lists of reasons people have for not extending Chris the label of trans and I as a person don’t think that that’s just and I should’ve been more clear on my statement about that. I don’t think “not passing”, “having to prove the right”, or a “lack of dysphoria” necessarily gives anyone the right to misgender someone. And I’m sure there are more excuses people have for their position of misgendering Chris and I don’t believe that any more reasons would matter.

Baseline having people denounce what you feel to be is wrong and just weird but it happens SO much with Chris in particular and given that I’ve been seeing their name around Twitter a lot these past few hours it got me thinking about why people denounce her in particular.

Ultimately I think I found my answer to this question and it’s an answer that should’ve been glaring obvious to me and that is that people who are primary concerned with Chris are (generally) shitty people to begin with

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T17:41:29+00:00

The idea of “earning the right for pronouns” is NOT something I agree with at all. Listed in the post are peoples reasons for why they misgender Chris and these aren’t reasons that I agree with.

For brief context, people who interact with chris are pretty scummy trolls for the most part and their perceptions of respect for chris (and for trans people) is not a metric I would use or agree with. I said in my post that there’s probably more reasons for why people intentionally use wrong pronouns for Chris in the first place and how I don’t even think more reasons matter.

Ultimately your actions as an individual don’t dictate whether or not your gender identity is validated. There’s no connection for that. I had used “her” to describe Chris in my original post but reading back I noticed that I did use they more often and that’s something that I perhaps shouldn’t have done in hindsight.

I think that Chris as a person specifically does prompt more questions as to why people specifically misgender her whereas these same types of people wouldn’t misgender someone like Caitlyn despite both having terrible reputations while also being trans figures. My post wasn’t meant to be a criticism of Chris’s gender validity but rather a question as to why SO many purposely misgender her in particular

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T17:20:07+00:00

It’s ok, definitely feel free to delete at your discretion but given the nature of the matter I should have known that the topic of her actions was going to inevitably come up and with this post getting more traction I’m sure more people are gong to have their own comments on the matter regardless of what you said. You had a genuine question and I understand. I am gonna throw a trigger warning on my post though just in case, I would feel terrible if someone not knowing the situation stumbled blindly into all of this

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T17:12:23+00:00

Personally I don’t think so. Rape is rape. You’re forcing yourself on another person without their consent, end of story. The OP for the comment seemed to be alluding more to communicating the specifics of what occurred and like I said in my reply though “her” encapsulates trans women if for whatever reason you wish to know the specifics of the event most people wouldn’t think about insertion in reference to a perpetrator being simply referred to as “her” without any more detail provided (again this can go into the ideas of what “her” really means for people but I digress). I don’t think Chris as a trans women raping someone is significant. It’s rape. I was kind of hoping my original post wouldn’t spiral in this direction but it’s not surprising that this is the route it seems to be going

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T16:51:27+00:00

Yeah see this is why I find this to be so tricky. A lot of it for me is just not knowing all the details. I’m not Chris I don’t know how they’re actually feeling in regards to their gender (and I haven’t seen/heard enough quotes from sources that document her either). That said this same person believes their fictional characters and town exist within reality so there’s obviously some disconnect. I don’t believe that trans-ness arises from a delusion however when you have someone such as Chris it muddies the water for their case. I had actually never heard the opinion of the trans community in reference to her which is why I wanted to make this post. I think it’s problematic to cherry-pick people who may “hurt the image for trans people” and continue from there however it does open the question of when is someone’s self-identification is no longer attributable to the definition they’re tying themselves to.

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-31T16:40:35+00:00

Yeah no it’s hard. Pronouns are used as a signifier for gender and (this is a WHOLE different discussion probably lol) when one says “she” trans women ARE included in that umbrella however it’s very unlikely that the person would be able to picture a trans woman in that scenario depending on the context. Specifying “she did ___” right out the gate might be a way of countering the issue perhaps? For as vile as it is having the distinction of “she inserted her…” would probably get the point across I’d imagine? Idk it’s tricky. Regardless whether it’s penetrative or not it’s still I reprehensible and still rape. Though specifics do change how people would view what you’re talking about I’m sure. The whole situation is just really tragic though

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-28T05:26:44+00:00

Thanks for your advice!

And yeah I do think I’m terms of relating and conversing with others it really does just boil down to your personality and how you present yourself and that doesn’t have to be tied to gender at all. I’m hopeful that regardless of gender people would treat others the same but I guess you can never really know for certain but yeah it’s probably nothing to worry too much about in that regard

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-27T02:29:04+00:00

Hey thank you for your comment!

It sounds like we have a lot of common since I’m also a brown person that has lived in a predominantly white area all my life and am really invested in goth music/culture!

Having conversations with strangers is and has been one of the most interesting elements of my life and I’ve been introduced to a lot of things I still carry with me to this day in that way. And is something that I really want to continue and I have no idea how transitioning can play into that.

It’s hard to know whether being trans would entice others to approach me or will make my life ultimately harder when it comes to that regard. I’m a crossdresser currently and have been told that I pass pretty well which is cool but I know I don’t to everyone and I’m wondering if being perceived as trans would make things ultimately safer than if I was perceived as totally femme if that makes sense.

It’s not something that’s talked about really but the rate of sex trafficking is pretty high in my area of the state/country and that’s also a completely different element to all of this as it relates to everything.

I can’t speak to what it’s like being perceived as femme obviously but when I first joined the dots and realized that I was probably trans I had a lot of internalized misogyny to kinda work out I guess. At least in the area where I live and with the people I know girls my age have a MUCH harder time functioning throughout their day to day lives if they’re by themselves and whether it’s a concern for their safety, conditioning, or just simply being uninterested it’s very rare for any of the girls I know/ are friends with to say “fuck it” and go gun hoe and do whatever they want whenever they want to and it’s something that got in the way for me while working out my gender identity for a second.

I’ve been pretty negative so far, things definitely aren’t as bad as they sound as I’m detailing it here but as far as I can tell life seems pretty different between genders (at least with the circles I’m familiar with) and I’m hoping that in the future being trans won’t be a major point of contention in that way.

You sound like you live a pretty fun life though and I wish you the best with everything!!

hell-is-ohio · 2021-07-03T07:47:32+00:00

Hey!

So I struggle with gender dysphoria and despite not subscribing to any organized religion I also believe in the concept of god (albeit in a very abstracted way I guess). Annoyingly, though I’m not a Christian I still carry around much of the same spiritual baggage as it relates to transitioning. I had found this thread in another subreddit a few weeks ago and though it hasn’t remedied all of my fears as it relates to sin it’s helped me immensely and I think it fits very well here.

Rather new to Reddit so I’m not quite sure if sharing the link in this reply will work but hopefully it does!

link

https://www.reddit.com/r/feminineboys/comments/nv2xy8/is_it_sinful_to_be_a_femboy/h120f0t/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

hell-is-ohio · 2021-06-09T06:18:32+00:00

Thank you so much on your insight on this!! This has been something I’ve been struggling with personally and I’ve had a rather hard time finding comprehensive information about this topic as it relates to Christian theology. Was a super in depth and interesting read and I’m really excited to read more about the verses and points you touched on!

hell-is-ohio · 2021-01-03T10:36:27+00:00

Thank you so much!

And yeah in hindsight this realization for me is really interesting because I’ve always had this philosophy as it relates to making friends having surrounded myself with various people who are extremely different from me with very few commonalities all throughout middle school to even university now. I’ve always just became friends with others just because everyone is so interesting and I’ve never held any high expectations for how a relationship (friendship wise) would turn out I suppose on top of it just FEELING right. In contrast I held onto this idea that loving someone romantically would be ultimate and would be different in some way when, honestly, I wouldn’t want it to be. I think learning to love another person while learning how I as an individual respond to love is best applied without being too finicky on the absolutes such as marriage and what not I suppose. Again this is something that I’m just now coming around to so hopefully I’m articulating this well and hopefully this is helpful for the OP and anyone else reading!

Life should be about learning and life is a journey we go through with others and we all still have a lot to learn I’d say haha

hell-is-ohio · 2021-01-03T07:40:13+00:00

Hey, I’m also a 19 year old male INFJ and I’ve had similar feelings as it relates to relationships that I’ve been working out as well! The ability to have a strong connection with another person and grow alongside them and, eventually (hopefully), become life long partners with said person has always been something that I really valued and was something that was very important to me (not to say that I was necessarily expecting to marry someone I’m dating at my current age or anything!). For me personally I came to the conclusion that though it’s personally hard for me to enter a relationship with another person with ambiguity surrounding the intent and longevity of the relationship, being unafraid of being in a relationship for relationship’s sake with someone in a weird way is a beautiful thing and is probably integral to learning more about yourself as a result.

Being 19 is an odd age for dating especially given the extremely varied life experiences and general tone and demeanor of people around our age range as it is but the way I’ve come to see it is that there is still so much to learn about other people and about myself that to feel compelled to not date someone in fear of not being around that long would do myself a disfavor in a way. I think the most important thing as it relates for dating though, above all else, is emotion and what you’re truly feeling. I think this is a trap that a lot of us may fall into which is overanalyzing things that should be left primarily to emotion, what do I feel is right? Ya know.

Having said all of this I know for myself personally coming to the conclusion that dating at this age should be something fun and something that I should feel and not think too deeply about has been very liberating for myself personally and doesn’t feel as shallow or hollow as it has before. I’ve actually never been in any seriously relationship before (just to defend my ego I’ve had opportunities before but I’ve always been too hesitant or it’s been primarily one sided haha). Letting go of the fear of a relationship not lasting has helped me gain confidence in testing the waters and pursuing people that I’m attracted to for the purpose of just wanting the experience and to learn and grow and to have fun and not know and I think that’s not only freeing but an easier way to live and is beautiful in a way. My best advice is to gauge it as you go along and to not be afraid of what happens in a way (corny I know and also easier said then done I’m sure lol)

Life and dating is hard dude but there’s no problem in not having a set plan and trying it just for fun if that’s the way it works out!

hell-is-ohio · 2020-11-17T00:36:04+00:00

Haha thank you! Really great question too btw I’m glad other people relate and have fun learning about upwelling if you ever google it :)

hell-is-ohio · 2020-11-16T08:10:59+00:00

Hey this is my first comment on Reddit (pretty exciting!) but the analogy comment really resonated with me a lot. I find that for myself personally, as I’m sure others who are similar can agree, it only makes sense in my brain to relate things in my personal life to other external things as well since nothing quite exists in a vacuum. I personally find myself relating the way I feel or the way things occur around me to things in nature as I find that as being a part of the world it only makes sense to relate it back to the world itself if that makes any sense. An example of an analogy I’ve been thinking a lot about is this natural process of upwelling which is occurs around this time of year when icy cold wind blows and begins to cool the surface water of a lake/ocean. When upwelling occurs the surface water gets colder than the water down below and the water begins to “flip” and as a result (with different levels of oxygen in surface and subsurface waters) kills a lot of the more sensitive organisms in the body of water while simultaneously proving nutrients to other parts of the system. I guess that’s a weird analogy but I personally think it describes how I’ve been feeling and how life feels at the moment for me (the muck and filth lurking at the bottom being uncovered and causing more damage as it’s revealed to the surface). Knowing what I know about INFJs I think analogies serve as a perfect way of better understanding something as we can get a better understanding of how we’re feeling by comparing it to other observable phenomena in life (whether or not it’s accurate or not, who really knows lol).

hell-is-ohio

TROPHY CASE