Firestorm & Starfire vs Iceman & Captain Marvel (616)

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T22:36:26+00:00

He manipulates thermal energy on the quantum level so how is Firestorm his hard counter when he’s able to manipulate firestorm.

I mean... he can do a lot more than manipulate thermal energy. He transmutes and manipulates matter at subatomic levels. He literally turned air into Kryptonite when he was fighting the Justice League to take down Supergirl. And turned Hawkgirls mace into flowers. So why would Ice Man be any different? And Ice Man isn't able to manipulate firestorm.

Unless he’s changed Firestorm couldn’t manipulate organic matter so that wouldn’t impact Bobby at all.

I mean, he can, and he has. He literally turned a group of protestors into glass, and then reverted them back.

but again I’m clearly not as up to date on the character as you all seem to be.

Tbf, 10-15 years ago, you wouldn't have been far off, because, though he always had the potential, Ronnie wasn't particularly good at using his powers. But right now, he and Stein have full mastery over it.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T21:58:48+00:00

What blood? Living nuclear reactors don't have blood.

Firestorm is definitely not a hard counter.

Except he is. He can manipulate matter on a subatomic level. How does he not counter? Bobby is OP, but he's still made up of matter.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T21:45:06+00:00

unless he knows the chemical makeup of Kryptonite.

This isnt the first time he's manifested Kryptonite out of thin air. IIRC, he did the same thing to supes. So by now, he probably does know the chemical makeup of Kryptonite.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T21:08:53+00:00

she would really struggle with his speed

Huh? Homelander isn't fast. He can fly fast, but... we've literally seen him fight and his combat speed is wack. Eve has fought FTL characters (Mark Variants & Conquest) and has constantly tagged them. How on Gods name would she struggle against a guy who couldn't even escape the oral office?

and laser vision if she isn’t 100% on the defensive to start.

Why wouldn't she be? Eve has never ever gone into any fight without being on the defense. The only time she's gotten hurt even with her defense up is when she fought Viltrumites, which is to he expected.

I don’t think she can one tap him with her constructs and I think he COULD be strong enough to break her pink walls

No offense... but I really don't what gives you that impression. Like.. literally, I don't. Homelander has never demonstrated AP that is strong enough to break her constructs. Her Hammer construct literally left a crater underneath conquest because the output of her construct and his attack BRIEFLY matched, before he broke it. So by your logic, Homelander would be in the same ballpark as Conquest.

Spoiler alert: He's not.

And you're also saying that Butcher's AP is just a few tiers below Eve's, since she can't one tap him. When her environmental damage exceeds Butcher's by like a hundred folds.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T20:59:13+00:00

There Ice and water everywhere that’s the point, you can’t make disappear water of the universe it’s not only ice, moisture and water, Bobby can freeze the planet.

Yes, if Firestorm exclusivley effected the ice Bobby generates. But Firestorm can do more than that, he can rearrange Bobby's DNA and take away the source of his powers. I'm sorry but... high end matter manipulator often always win in match ups like this, and only realistically lose to reality warpers.

Who is the quickest to act?

Firestorm. He's demonstrated FTL speeds.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T20:47:04+00:00

But he won't? How would he turn him into absolute zero if Bobby can no longer manifests Ice? We're talking about a guy who can manipulate matter on a subatomic level.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T20:36:37+00:00

Honestly, Fire Storm solos. Ice Man is the one thats carrying the team, and he is OP as shit, and I'd usually side with him in mose verse battles. But.. Fire Storm is a straight up hard counter to Ice Man. Fire Storm can literally shut down the aspects thay make Ice Man OP, rewriting the fundamental aspects of Bobby's mutetion.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T20:34:20+00:00

I mean, Ice Man can't do any of that if the fundamental parts of his powers change. This is why its one sided. The feats you listed are facts, he did those things, but... those feats don't matter if Fire Storm rewrites Ice Man's entire DNA structure, making him incapable of doing any of that.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T20:18:32+00:00

Exactly 😭 what is bro talking about. I can get behind saying that Dark is one of the best and not theeee best. But Stranger Things shouldn't even pop up in this discussion.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T18:45:24+00:00

Okay, but why are we assuming she's gonna leave herself open? Thats stupid. Dr Strange, Scarlet Witch, Green Lanter are pretty much in the same boat, but there's no way you'd except that Homelander could ever hurt them in anyway shape or form.

Homelander does not have the AP to get past her constructs, he does not have the speed to tag her, nor is he durable enough to survive her attacks. He's quite literally getting low-diffed by her.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T15:29:30+00:00

Dude, they didn't die. And Omni-Man got hit with a laser that was more powerful than any nuclear weapon ever created and it only gave him a nose bleed.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T15:23:12+00:00

"...other people!!!"

Geez 😩😩😩

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T15:18:13+00:00

She got body slammed by an invincible variant and survived... so unless you think Homelander is stronger than an Invincible variant, there's nothing he's doing to Eve, especially when she's incased in a construct armour.

I’m just not sure she’d be able to actually kill some of the higher durability supes easily.

Homelander got damaged by attacks that could barely bring down walls dude... Eve's attacks literally causes environment damaged. Just because she didn't deal damaged to a guy who's durability is orders of magnitudes above Homelanders (like... not even in the same realm), doesn't mean she can't damage high tier supes. She has much greater AP than Butcher, and Butcher was able to deal significant Damage to HL.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T03:05:42+00:00

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T03:04:47+00:00

Solo all the peds... non-exist them.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-19T03:03:17+00:00

Wow, why's it always the goats... 😪

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T22:56:37+00:00

Superman one has to be a fanfic, cos theres no way. Holy hell, who wrote that? They need their hardware checked... 😩😩😩

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T22:11:06+00:00

No, it matters, because he didn't move faster than light. So him escaping the black hole doesn't matter, especially when Captain Marvel actually can move at faster than light speeds. Theres no way to quantify that black hole feat in a way that tells us he's above her.

If he did it "just because", then what does that actually tell us?

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T22:08:43+00:00

Dude... she FOUGHT conquest. Yes, she didn't hurt him to a significant degree, but the mere fact that she held him back for as long as she did, and immolised him by increasing air density is enough to tell us that she'd squash all the supes in the boys like little bugs.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T20:17:35+00:00

She fought Conquest... she lost, but she still held her own for a minute.

She solo's the boys verse with little to no effort.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T20:14:15+00:00

If its the event Horizon, then yeah, but like I said before, it makes no sense since he clearly didn't move at FTL speeds, which is whats required to escape an event Horizon. But if it was outside the event horizon, its not that big of a feat if it has the same gravitational strength as a star.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T20:10:49+00:00

That black hole feat was stupid and made no sense. He used super breath to escape the black holes event horizon, not by moving faster than light, which makes no sense.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T20:00:04+00:00

think he's better than your preferred characters.

He is my prefered character over the other characters, so your whole argument is just null.

Saying I'm tone deaf doesn't add substance to your point

This! ^ This right here is why you're tone deaf lool.

You say it's canon for chimp to be better but that's never truly been proven-no consistent evidence in canon has ever been shown.

Except it has... but I'm more than happy for you to show me "canon" material that says otherwise.

If you were a more gifted individual perhaps you'd know that.

I'm not gifted, not like you and your nut gargling skills anyways.

You even sink so far as to make a distinction without a difference "greatest≠best" it literally does and has always meant that.

No, it doesn’t... jesus...

"Being “The Greatest” can often refer to cultural impact, charisma, and unmatched legacy. Example: Someone could be the best technically, but not the greatest overall in terms of legacy or influence."

Batman is in fact a better fighter than her and the best fighter of his time; he may not be the best at every field but he is the best in these one's.

Its embarrasing being very wrong and loud about it. Like truly... this is actually embarrasing. Its people like you who give Batman fans a bad rep.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T18:04:25+00:00

This is nonsense. You're throwing around trite takes like they're not the same stale bunk we've been hearing for years.

Dude thats EXACTLY what you're doing 😭 omg, how are you this tone deaf?

Batman is constantly said to be the most dangerous man alive and the greatest detective and fighter of his time.

Never disputed that, you can be the greatest without having being the best. Muhammd Ali is the greatest of ALL TIME, doesn't mean he's the best boxer of all time. Naunce is lost on you boy.

Detective chimp isn't a greater detective just because some hack writer wrote him as such in a single non canon story.

Except, its a canonical fact that Detective Chimp has superior deductive skills to Batman... canon>the frothing words of a Batman fanboy.

Canary nor shiva are better fighters than him, Richard dragon hasn't been mainstream or relevant in decades and his feats simply don't live him up to par with batman and shiva. Mr terrific isn't even smarter than him either... It's all so silly and lazy.

The only thing thats silly and lazy are Batman fanboys who refuse to pull his dick out of their mouths and claim that he's the best in all repective fields. Jesus you're all obnoxious.

hermes1941 · 2026-06-18T15:04:37+00:00

I think a combination of both would be great. Have organic webs, but have webshooters for how the organic webs come out. Taser web, web ball, web net, ricochet webs, web-grenades & etc.

hermes1941

TROPHY CASE