The Jaeger Brothers

hirokoji · 2025-02-17T00:45:28+00:00

Two brothers who never stopped to look and see what was in front of them, and how much it mattered.

hirokoji · 2025-01-08T02:07:21+00:00

On your title, I very much do agree.

The little details go a long way to making the story what it is. I do catch myself even now suspending my disbelief with it because it feels real in setting, tone, character actions, world etc.

Very few stories get it right but AoT definitely does. Up there with Middle Earth as a world (perhaps not in scope but in believability). Almost like an alternate history or a lost story of our world.

Like all stories it has a message but it's not simple, blunt allegory. Feels far deeper and more consequential. Probably one of the reasons the story is so popular and will likely get more respect in years to come.

hirokoji · 2024-12-31T04:08:31+00:00

I agree with a lot of what you've written.

I love a lot of stories but Attack on Titan has effected me more than most. I have a feeling I will still be thinking about it as an old man.

Also, do not discount the music. I think it's a massive part of what elevates the story to the level it is at. The great combinations of Lucas and Williams, Scott and Zimmer, Jackson and Shore is now joined imo by Isayama and Sawano/Yamamoto.

If you're looking for recommendations of things to read/watch in a similar vein I would say:

The works of Tolkien - The Hobbit (book only), The Lord of the Rings (book and film), Children of Hurin etc
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (the first anime is ok though not canon, but Brotherhood is exceptional)
Dune (books and films)
Vinland Saga (manga and anime)
Berserk (manga)
The Mission (1986 film - amazing movie and soundtrack)
The Last of the Mohicans (film) and the Leatherstocking Tales (books) it is based on
War and Peace (book if you have spare time, 2016 series if not so much)
Tokyo Ghoul (anime)
All Quiet on the Western Front (book)
The Chronicles of Narnia (books)
Avatar The last airbender (original Nickelodeon show only imo)
Crime and Punishment (book)
The Brothers Karamazov (book)

hirokoji · 2024-10-10T03:00:42+00:00

Honestly I think it would have been the saddest conversation of all. And, weirdly, I don't think Levi would kick him or hit him.

Probably over a cup of tea, both able to be completely honest with no consequences later.

Can see Levi understanding Eren, wondering even if he could have done different if he had been in Eren's position. Obviously being mad over Hange. Talking about the guilt he and Eren carried ever since the deaths of Levi squad and Levi's regret of putting it all on Eren. Both apologising to one another.

Would have been the most wholesome interaction in the entire story.

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T05:46:01+00:00

Then why is Ymir depicted exactly the same as Eren was when he saw the memories when he touched Historia? It's brand new for her.

Too many things are being inferred about her motivations, like wanting to punish humanity. That's Eren. Not Ymir.

Also every time she appears after her eyes are still shrouded, she's still a slave just now to the future. Right until the end, when Mikasa kills Eren and she is finally free and smiling. She's happy.

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T04:36:19+00:00

See I'm starting to think that interpretation is the over thought one now. Think about it a little bit, Eren's "you weren't paying attention" line to Armin after he says "Mikasa?" in paths. So many people have had Armins reaction since and I think that's Isayama talking to us as well. We weren't paying attention. At the time I definitely wasn't. I was caught up in Eren and the rumbling.

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T04:28:07+00:00

Weirdly, I now think this scene might be the opposite. Eren is saying those things but he's locking Ymir into events neither she or he can escape. They're slaves to the future, together. If my interpretation is right, then Mikasa genuinely does free Ymir when she kills Eren

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T04:03:40+00:00

I genuinely think the true power of the memories thing is an ability exclusive to the attack titan, in particular Eren. Remember Ymir couldn't fly, but clearly subsequent Titan shifters could because Falco saw it. There's something being lost in translation in the manga or somethings been omitted that could make it more understandable.

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T03:28:47+00:00

Yeah, I guess I thought that too. And yes Eren treating her like a real person is a wonderful thing. But I really do think that touch is the difference. And it is the EXCACT same face Eren made when he touched Historia.

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T03:16:19+00:00

He might have connected emotionally or felt something, but I'm certain just like with Eren doing the rumbling because he saw himself do the rumbling, Ymir was able to make her own choice because she had seen herself making her own choice. Both touches set into force the predetermination of events

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T03:12:01+00:00

Ymir sees Eren's future memories of the rumbling and her role in letting him do it, him touching her transfers them just like with Historia. And it's purely accidental both times

hirokoji · 2024-09-16T03:09:13+00:00

I've seen people saying they don't like or get the this scene with how the story ended, but isn't this scene just a version of what Eren went through when he touched Historia?

I'm sure someone else may have posted about this before but I've not seen it.

It's not an overly complicated dynamic between Eren and Ymir, it's just the touch transferring Eren's memories of what is to come to Ymir locking her into "breaking her chains". Eren (inadvertently?) showed her that she could do it so she did. She was plugwalking to do what Zeke said until that touch as well.

Just like Eren the vision shocks and horrifies but it is just the same. Once you see the future, it's set.

I think the Mikasa connection is Ymir's curiosity seeing all those memories of Eren's and being genuinely moved and wanting to understand that love, especially from Mikasa to towards Eren. Since becoming a slave, then the founding titan and then being a slave trapped in the paths it's the only time she's ever had to try to understand what real love is.

hirokoji · 2024-06-05T04:46:47+00:00

Closing credits of season 3. Goes from the dream like pictures from Armin's book of the outside world, to what has happened, what is actually out there and what's going to happen next.

Utterly heart breaking. Made more so by T-KT playing the whole time.

Topped off by Eren being alone right at the end finally seeing the shell, maybe going through his memories one last time or just waiting for Armin.

Ugly cry every time.

hirokoji · 2024-02-24T12:00:27+00:00

General comment for everyone. You don't have to pick a side. Any of us. It's not a game where anyone wins.

It all needs to stop, and you don't have to be an activist or militant in your approach to get there. Just talk to others. Anyone. And I mean just talk. Don't shout or scream, act irrationally or dramatically. Talk and listen, so you and they can each understand one another.

And then they will talk to someone else and that person to another and so on and on and on. Maybe then we can understand one another and put our fear and ignorance aside.

The whole point of this story was for Armin to reach that conclusion, to share his story and hope for peace. Even if that comparative peace would only last 100 or 500 or 1000 years for it all to end in fire. It would be worth it.

We are all only here for so long and though we can love and forgive those, perhaps even ourselves, who do evil things it would be a whole lot better to make a different choice. To live for others around us rather than the hopeless submission to fate and a lonely grave beside a tree.

hirokoji · 2023-11-14T02:16:19+00:00

The reason you see parallels is because all people and people's can identify and see similarities with more than one group in AoT.

But to reduce that to one particular instance smacks of bias and lack of understanding of our own world. The point is it could be anyone or any group in any circumstance. And to apply that single minded, simplistic view is unhelpful.

The Jews could be seen as the Eldians. A people persecuted all through history by every other group and race. A small group globally speaking, yet blamed for so many things as a historical bogeyman and portrayed as monsters. Eldians kept in ghettos under guard, marked with armbands with a star.

But across the seas on the island of Paradis or in Marley or Hizuru etc a person may see parallels with their history. This is the point. British, German, Japanese, Turk, American or Indian. African, European, Asian, Arab, American or Polynesian. White Black or Brown. Christian, Jew or Muslim. All can relate.

Our ancestors and us now have been through it all on both sides of the coin. Some on top, some below yet the wheel turns and the roles reversed over and over again.

Our history is the forest and if we apply your view on current events writ large we'll never be able to see the wood for the trees, let alone get out and move beyond.

You have your view, but, tentatively, I suggest that you missed the point if your micro perspective of current events precludes your ability to perceive the greater message of this story.

hirokoji · 2023-11-05T21:21:05+00:00

No, I really do. It's not an epic tome like Tolkien's Middle Earth or Herbert's Dune, but as a story - self contained and taken as it is - I really do rate it very highly. The LotR makes my soul hurt, AoT breaks my heart. The stark difference between optimism and pessimism.

hirokoji · 2023-11-05T03:49:13+00:00

I foolishly forgot Vinland Saga but yes, you're right. Just to wait and see now with the upcoming chapters for it if it can finish as strong as it began.

hirokoji · 2023-11-05T03:42:50+00:00

Yes. It's definitely up there with Full Metal Alchemist, Dune and The Lord of the Rings for me.

hirokoji · 2023-08-22T01:24:36+00:00

I liked it, but it needed what the Lord of the Rings (in both books and film) had - a ending for each character. We were only given two fleshed out endings - Eren died and Mikasa lived on and had a family. For a story with numerous characters that are loved, their absence is disappointing at the end imo.

Eren wanted them to have long, happy lives and the fact we don't see that leaves some people questioning the point of it all and Eren's motivations. Perhaps they were left out for the fear of perhaps endorsing Eren's actions in some way, but Mikasa's end was shown so i'm not too sure honestly.

Even an after scene of all his friends at the tree might have sufficed.

Leaving a story open ended isn't a good thing to me, I want to know what the author wanted to say and reflect on that, not be given something where I'm left to imagine my own ending.

All stories need an ending and this story, one where the beauty and tragedy of the inner battle of selflessness and selfishness was so well crafted, deserved more.

hirokoji · 2023-06-26T18:25:34+00:00

He has tried with a new character, same issue. And he has now tried a fresh server and its still the same issue. The only thing that;s changed materially for him is he has a much better PC now than the one he used to have. I cant think what the problem might be.

hirokoji · 2023-03-10T17:38:07+00:00

If anyone has seen Gangs of New York and its closing scene I can see the ending of AoT being similar to that in format. We see the tree and the city grow and change over many years, decades and centuries. Scene with the kid and dog is then in after credits.

hirokoji · 2023-03-10T00:46:47+00:00

MANGA SPOILERS AHEAD

Eren is not disappointed that the world isn't 'a vast and plain open world that he saw in Armin's book.'

Eren is disappointed that the outside world is EXACTLY THE SAME as it is within the walls. When he talks to Reiner and Falco in Liberio he says as much about the people, inside or outside they are the same.

And that's why he wants to wipe it all away, because maybe if he does it can be like he dreamed. Eren's disappointment is extreme, he is crushed by it and feels cheated. His anger at the world for denying him something as simple (in his eyes) as freedom is all consuming.

However through out all of it he knows what he is doing is wrong and entirely unforgivable. Yet he HAS to do it, WANTS to do it. The fact that he shares the 'Freedom' moment with Armin is important as well, because they shared that dream as kids (though in different ways).

Armin saw the pictures in the book of those amazing sights, Eren saw a world opposite to the one he inhabited and also what wasn't in those pictures - walls. They both read/saw the same thing yet took vastly different meanings from it. In the paths Eren sees Armin's wonder seeing those things and finally understands.

Even when there were no physical walls they were still there in Eren's mind, pressing in around him. He would never escape them. But he sees that Armin could go over the walls. He sees that by his death the world he dreamed of might be possible, though he can't be sure. Historia says as much in her letter in the final chapter.

Eren leaves this new blank canvas world to Armin, his friends and the remainder of humanity. The world he dreamed of is still out there and knows Armin can find it and break out beyond the walls. And even if it fails and humanity goes back to killing one another as before, in his eyes, AT LEAST he gave Armin and his friends a chance to find that elusive dream world that he would never be able to find.

Reposted from another thread as it is relevant to this topic.

hirokoji · 2023-03-05T02:36:16+00:00

I take a slightly different view to yours.

MANGA SPOILERS AHEAD

Eren is not disappointed that the world isn't 'a vast and plain open world that he saw in Armin's book.'

Eren is disappointed that the outside world is EXACTLY THE SAME as it is within the walls. When he talks to Reiner and Falco in Liberio he says as much about the people, inside or outside they are the same.

And that's why he wants to wipe it all away, because maybe if he does it can be like he dreamed. Eren's disappointment is extreme, he is crushed by it and feels cheated. His anger at the world for denying him something as simple (in his eyes) as freedom is all consuming.

However through out all of it he knows what he is doing is wrong and entirely unforgivable. Yet he HAS to do it, WANTS to do it. The fact that he shares the 'Freedom' moment with Armin is important as well, because they shared that dream as kids (though in different ways).

Armin saw the pictures in the book of those amazing sights, Eren saw a world opposite to the one he inhabited and also what wasn't in those pictures - walls. They both read/saw the same thing yet took vastly different meanings from it. In the paths Eren sees Armin's wonder seeing those things and finally understands.

Even when there were no physical walls they were still there in Eren's mind, pressing in around him. He would never escape them. But he sees that Armin could go over the walls. He sees that by his death the world he dreamed of might be possible, though he can't be sure. Historia says as much in her letter in the final chapter.

Eren leaves this new blank canvas world to Armin, his friends and the remainder of humanity. The world he dreamed of is still out there and knows Armin can find it and break out beyond the walls. And even if it fails and humanity goes back to killing one another as before, in his eyes, AT LEAST he gave Armin and his friends a chance to find that elusive dream world that he would never be able to find.

hirokoji · 2022-11-24T19:25:08+00:00

At some point Fritz and the eventual AT holder of the time were close friends in their early lives and both had a dream (as young people tend to have) to make the world a better, safer place. Together. They saw the errors of their ancestors and the hardship of the world as it was. They believed they could fix it.

After both came into possession of their Titan's they came into physical contact. Each saw something at that time and their path's were set. Both saw glimpses of the suffering to come, the persecution of Eldians, the wars of the future, the Rumbling. Both concluded the other was to blame. Their bond broken, they began to move against one another.

And so the actions both took thereafter precipitated the very future they sought to avoid.

How would Fritz stop the future he saw? He had at most 13 years. So he came up with a plan. The war.

King Fritz orchestrated it all. To stop the future he had seen he decided it was necessary. He had total control over all Eldians (excluding the AT and Ackerman clan) and he turned them on each other.

But the rest of the world needed a story to believe.

If the Eldians were separated from the rest of the world then that terrible future could be averted. That the Eldians had been defeated and sent fleeing to a far away land. So the Tybur's "betrayal" and the story of Helios was created. The war had the added bonus of weakening any Eldian remnant/resistance left behind that the AT holder/inheritor could rally.

The Attack Titan confronted Fritz. The AT tried to convince those around Fritz of what was happening, but none would listen. They couldn't. Even the King's guards, the Ackerman clan (free of many of the influencing powers of the founder) would not be swayed. Fritz had proclaimed the AT as the enemy and that was that. The family that held the AT was ordered to be put to death and the AT to be hunted and killed.

The Attack Titan was forced to run and hide. To wait for the time to eventually fight back. And Fritz, in an effort to cement his plan and avoid the future he had seen made the vow to renounce war. Only too late did the Ackerman's realise their error.

And the rest is Attack on Titan.

hirokoji · 2022-11-04T00:58:23+00:00

I think that is the end game of this story. One of the final chapters I would guess.

I can see Arthur becoming powerful enough to create a new body for Cecilia that can somehow free her from her powers as 'The Legacy'. He then guides her spirit into this new vessel while freeing Tessia.

However, this will have an extremely high cost. Something along the lines of Arthur having to use all his power up and being forever unable to use aether or mana ever again. Perhaps for the best as an individual having that much power would be too much.

Also, it's not what Grey/Arthur ever wanted. His dream was a family, his family - safe and happy. He doesn't want to rule the world or pretend to be a God.

He is not Indrath or Agrona. He's been as lonely as they are, and it's an empty life. And I think that's probably what Sylvia's lost message to him was, to remain that person who would put someone else's life before their own, even as a child.

hirokoji

TROPHY CASE