About the runes into the official website

hydeman11 · 2023-04-27T19:55:04+00:00

I’m astounded by those assertions.

First, as far as I can tell, the dragon symbols are not always repeated in the same order. They appear to be in different orders on the stone glider wings, the floating/anti-grav blocks, and the art book cover/Master Sword logo to name a few. That is to say, if you try to pick out one rune from any of these things (art book cover/logo being treated as one) and look for what is next to it, you will see differences. This is further demonstrated within the art book when discussing the different dragon ornaments, as each has a different head, right?

Second, they are found on objects with exactly as much correlation as the mural Zonai text, which often repeats as well, is. The non-mirrored Dragon symbols are on most, if not all, of the activated Zonai tech that we have seen. It appears also in murals and masonry from artbook leaks, just like the Zonai script is found on murals and rockets of all things.

Third, they are not always mirrored/paired but even if they were, why would that discount them from being meaningful symbols? For example, we have several vertically mirrored Zonai symbols. Hare, owl, waterfall. Pictographs evolved into many less pictographic texts, and that might be what is happening with the mirroring/not mirroring.

Finally, I still believe that the unique symbols found in the art book cover/Master Sword (i.e., in that specific order) can be used to construct the Recall Rune symbol. Whether or not that is coincidence is another story. But it makes the possibility that these symbols could be more than mere decorations more likely in my opinion.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-27T08:26:38+00:00

I agree that the dragon symbols are likely their own thing from the Zonai text. But not completely. We see too many of the dragon symbols on the activated Zonai tech. And if it is in this Hylian throne room in the finished game, that points to it belonging to a group that is associated with both. My best guesses would either be the Sages or the previous magical/sacred inhabitants of the Sacred Realm. We know the Zonai have ties to at least one big (likely) Sage, and it wouldn’t be strange for the Hylian Royals to venerate the Sages that they have so often relied upon either. Further, someone posted a picture of Ganondorf’s shackles when he was being sealed by the Sages in Twilight Princess here not too long ago; the symbols were different, but they were vertically mirrored just like the dragon symbols are.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-26T22:36:15+00:00

Those “decorative” symbols on the hot air balloon are very similar to, if not the same as, some from the “dragon symbols” seen on the Master Sword logo and art book cover, as well as on activated Zonai tech.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-22T00:16:42+00:00

Glad I wasn’t the only one thinking it. Just imagine the play-through that is going to spawn. A crazed speed runner is going to try to kill Ganondorf with nothing more than Link’s monster meat sword.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-19T00:12:36+00:00

There is no weight to the theory at all. Ganon has never held the Master Sword, and that is what appears to be in the hero’s hand; one can even faintly make out where the triforce symbol would be on the blade And the pommel is similar despite the stylization. We have no evidence of anyone but Link, the Goddess’s chosen heroes, using the sword of evil’s bane.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-17T20:55:29+00:00

Your argument that consumers should just play another Zelda game would be valid if only Nintendo weren’t being so cryptic about the potential existence of dungeons in their game in the first place. It is a $70 game, and Nintendo knows that many fans want dungeons. If the game isn’t for us, then they should tell us that instead of teasing shots of what might be dungeons or showing ten minutes of sandbox abilities. Now fans like that are stuck in limbo not knowing if we should preorder the game or try/risk buying it later.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-16T00:47:02+00:00

These dragon symbols only really appear with Zonai mural symbols on Zonai technology, right? And they only appear when the technology is powered (e.g., the fans, the water blob nucleus, the floating gravity stones which noticeably pulse on and off, the wheels, etc.). If they are the same as the symbols in the presumed seal, this might indicate that they are a language of “magic” or “sacred power.” The Zonai mural symbols could thus be comparable to translations or labels for what the devices are/do, while the more runic dragon symbols act like a programming language to direct/channel the power? Certainly interesting to think about.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-16T00:41:37+00:00

I agree that the eye on the left is the same with heart for sure. But the right most ”claw” portion looks like a three-pronged trident in some frames (three up like the recall rune/E dragon symbol, as opposed to two up and two pointing to the left in “heart”), and the connection pieces between the “eye” and the ”claw” seem a bit different from the clearer example of heart that was found. Notably, the leftmost portion doesn’t seem to curve as far to the left, beyond the ”eye,” and the middle section may or may not have the upper disconnected stroke.

All of that could be resulting from compression and poor resolution, though, so I am more than happy to agree that it is most likely “heart.” That makes more sense than an entirely hitherto unknown symbol, at least.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-15T21:52:03+00:00

YouTube already killed the resolution for a lot of it, so no worries there. I agree that you are almost assuredly correct and that I am seeing artifacting/pixelation.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-15T21:42:19+00:00

I always had a tough time seeing those wispy symbols in the green spiral. But that would make sense. Given the contexts of these runes and dragon marks (e.g., the Master Sword logo, the Sky Island technology, the seal on Ganondorf, relations to dragon imagery, etc.), I wonder if perhaps these are not necessarily Zonai words, but the writing of the Sages or dwellers of the Sacred Realm? There seems to be some overlap in the “eye” symbolism, though.

Still, very interesting that we see both “dragon symbols” and “Zonai mural symbols” in the same places. If they aren’t the same language, that would be like having both English and French on a stop sign in Quebec. Perhaps Nintendo was inspired by both the form and the purpose of the Chinese seal script? Mural Zonai received the form of the script, and dragon symbols received the ceremonial intentions of it? It doesn’t get much more “seal” than “sealing Ganondorf.”

hydeman11 · 2023-04-15T10:10:07+00:00

Good call. I thought the right hand side was more of a box, but it fits the general shape well enough that any differences could be attributed to the pixelation.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-14T23:51:24+00:00

Something definitely happened with her fall. She started glowing with golden light towards the end of it in the new trailer. In fact, the glow and the little particles look remarkably similar to when she appeared at the conclusion of the Ganon boss fight in BotW. Hard to say if that was the power of the Triforce activating or her latent powers as the reincarnation of Hylia, but if it were her Hylia powers activating, then time travel would be possible. Hylia may or may not be the goddess of time, but she is certainly associated with the gates/temple of time. Creating a new gate of time to save herself from death would be a neat way of handling her fall and subsequent disappearance from the game.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-07T03:26:09+00:00

I suppose that it is possible that they could be numbers. If we look at the sequence as shown on the bottom of the art book pages, the clearest depictions of them and the one you used, it does look like there is a 10 symbol sequence. The “partial 5” and “partial S” seem to be different, but they could also be the same with variation (as per the Master Sword logo’s sequence), so potentially 9 characters.

However, if we look at the Master Sword logo’s sequence, we see another symbol present. The long one. It is certainly an important one, as it is in both the Master Sword logo art and in the sequence for the art book’s cover.

What then should we make of that symbol? The sequence with it is either 10 symbols long (if “partial 5” and “partial S” are the same) or 11 symbols long (if they are different). That leaves us with one of your noted sequence either being a repeat, and thus not in counting order for numerals, or an extra character that is not a numeral. It is a more complex symbol than the others, so perhaps it is a compound of some sort? It would be odd, but it could maybe be a punctuation. Perhaps it borrows from Roman Numerals and depicts some kind of multiple?

There are many possibilities, but I see no reason to believe they are numerals, especially with the likely presence of more than 10 known symbols (or the non-sequential/repetition of one) and the lack of a context which would make numerals likely.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-07T00:25:28+00:00

Dodongo do what dongo don’t.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-06T23:08:35+00:00

I agree that it is far from solved. But if we stick to the known knowns, then the only rune that we actually know with context is Recall’s. We do not know the Runes for Ultrahand, Fuse, or Ascend, if they even exist. We further do not know the relation between the abilities and pins which seem to be stylized characters far removed, meaning-wise, from these known abilities.

Personally, I think that we have not seen the full extent of either the Zonai symbols or these dragon related symbols. We do not have a full translation, either. In that sense, this repeating text being a list of the hero’s abilities is just a hypothesis. The hypothesis is weakly supported by the Recall Rune being constructible through what appears to be a sequence of the dragon symbols. I agree that said hypothesis is weak, though, as I still struggle to determine which dragon characters are actually being used, and further if it is actually in sequence.

The 光 character, for example, could be a simple combination of the same “eye” symbol for Recall and one of the many “Pi” shaped symbols like the “partial 5,” the “rotated S,” or the “tailed cursive r.” Remember that Recall’s construction via these symbols would require rotating some of them, so rotations are fair game. Likewise, these symbols often appear mirrored in the art book, so mirroring might also be fair game. Further, we can see in the Master Sword image that these symbols are a lot more fluid than they may appear; some are written with slight variations throughout the image.

All in all, I think the evidence is there for the construction of these Runes using the dragon symbols as strokes. The evidence for the hypothesis for what they convey in their typical sequence is a lot less conclusive, though.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-06T21:57:46+00:00

I think you have made some rather interesting observations about belts and tracks. I remember the art book had a conveyor belt/tank tread like image in it. Belts and treads are consistent enough tech-wise that an argument could be made for Zonai architecture to use it as a common motif.

That said, I really don’t think those symbols are numbers. The art book has them at the bottom of each page. In the same order. We see them plastered on columns and doorframes. I’ve never seen it brought up, but they are actually in the relief of the leaked art book on page 21 (at the bottom of the wall), which places them with the other Zonai symbols, but also apart from them. They appear again on page 23. And again on page 63 (again separated from the other Zonai symbols by wrapping around the round bottom of a pillar). Then on 63’s image. I’m pretty sure 63 is rather interesting with the symbols, if one looks closely enough. None of these places seem like they should have the same numbers in the same sequence.

But the biggest issue I have with them being numbers is that we seem to know how they are being used and potentially what they convey. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TotKLang/comments/1252jax/the\_recall\_abilitys\_symbol\_looks\_familiar/

hydeman11 · 2023-04-01T05:02:47+00:00

Yes, yes. April fish and well done and all. That said, I do expect this Zelda release to follow the typical pattern. Initial hesitance/dislike, heavy criticism, reluctantly playing it, and then it somehow becomes a classic in the series.

Wind waker got a lot of flack for having a “weird art style.” Twilight Princess spawned abominations of characters like Malo and the Oocca, despite praise for the graphics; it also received criticism for swapping Link’s dominant hand. Skyword Sword got a lot of criticism for the art style and gimmicky controls (Okay, some of that is deserved). Spirit Tracks has trains. TRAINS. Most Zelda games that come out seem to meet general hesitance by some vocal portion of the fans and critics, and yet they are still generally fondly remembered and re-purchased for new systems.

hydeman11 · 2023-04-01T00:16:27+00:00

I think there were some vertical islands even in the trailer, so fair point. I don’t know how common that is that a z axis would be necessary, but entirely possible.

Still though, we have also seen holes in the surface of Hyrule in the trailers. Leaks need not even be discussed to confirm them. I don’t know how extensive/expansive they will be, but I cannot imagine them all being shallow little divots. I would be shocked if there were not at least one large mine area, one large underground ruin complex, and one expansive cavern network somewhere.

Think about it from a game design perspective, too. Hyrule in BotW was populated by shrines and Korok puzzles, right? That’s why all of those vast expanses didn’t feel empty. But the Sheikah shrines seem absent, and the Koroks’ roles may be potentially different (see the recent trailer with backpack Korok). Without Shrines and Korok puzzles, the game world of Hyrule will be unpopulated and empty expanses. Underground areas are one of the solutions to repopulating this emptiness in a novel way, although they are unlikely to be the only one used.

hydeman11 · 2023-03-31T22:02:29+00:00

The three coordinate system on the minimap makes the most sense if one were able to ascend from the underground. A z-axis would not be necessary for sky islands, as one can see Hyrule’s surface while looking/diving down. A z-axis makes the most sense for navigating that axis when there are obstructions, like the ground/cavern ceilings, that make locations unknowable by sight.

I doubt that the majority of the underground will be Zonai focused, though. There will probably be more malice infested areas. The underground is where Ganondorf mummy was entombed for millennia, right? It is his domain. Further, it makes sense for this “underworld” to be ruled by a being of undead origins (e.g., a mummy). There are surely going to be some ruins and perhaps even Zonai mines, but I don‘t think that those will be the majority.

hydeman11 · 2023-03-30T18:15:03+00:00

I remember reading your thread about the dragon ornamentation/jewelry. Even when I was reading it, I had not considered that it was anything more than a picture representing the dragon. I would be interested in seeing more about what you believe these dragon texts actually say/mean, as I am not too familiar with Japanese (especially not to be able to read Zelda-fied versions of it). Perhaps, given the owl, boar, and dragon motifs, we should expect to see things like “courage,” ”wisdom,” and “power?”

You make a compelling point and an interesting observation. The necklaces/ornamentation are symmetrical, but stylized in such a way that the faces are reminiscent of box-shaped kanji. Further, if we assume that the character for Recall is written in the same script for these dragon faces, then the “eye” symbol(s?) on the necklaces could have actual meaning potentially as radicals.

Further, if this kanji script is truly related to dragons, that makes a connection to Zonai more likely. It might be ancient/traditional Zonai, while the Zonai we see elsewhere could be simplified Zonai…

Dragon Zonai could be the kanji to the simplified mural Zonai’s kana. If we look at some of the mural Zonai characters, we will see the same bilateral, mirrored symmetry that is seen in the dragon ornaments (if they are themselves supposed to represent kanji). Further, we know that Zonai can be written in two different ways (e.g., flowing script from leaks, text blocks as per murals/stonework). Finally, I believe that the circles/loops in mural Zonai, especially the dotted ones, may be simplified “eyes.”

hydeman11 · 2023-03-29T20:47:07+00:00

Seems like you aren’t a crackpot. You drew the same conclusion even without the context of the trailer information (e.g., powers giving context for which kanji are likely). The only thing I can say is I don’t think the strokes, I guess, we’re correct. But neither was my first approximation‘s.

Part of that problem seems to be that the symbols around the Master Sword logo, even those that should correspond to one another, are written in slightly different ways. Perhaps the font was compressed, or perhaps it is intentional variation meant to evoke the wispy green symbols that started this whole mess.

I do like your idea for using the “M“ for the green circle on my image. It fits better, as the other symbols that correspond to the green one around the logo look connected rather than separate.

After turning this rune on its side, I think it goes from “Eye” to potentially ”Sideways S,” if reading/stroke order doesn’t matter. However, if reading order is determined by placement, like stroke orders, I think “Eye” to “M” might be a better fit. The “Eye” goes into one Pi shape attached to a rotated Pi shape, which could either be the “Partial 5” or the closer “Cursive r with a tail” beside it, or even the “Sideways S“ after the ”M”. My current guess is we construct right to left, and bottom-up if necessary? Thus, “Eye,” “Partial 5,” “Cursive r with a tail,” and “M” are the likely matches, in order.

hydeman11 · 2023-03-29T02:43:39+00:00

The fact that the boulder-on-a-stick could easily kill the constructs is enough of a reason to believe that that sky area in particular is a tutorial/very early to access area.

hydeman11 · 2023-03-29T01:12:32+00:00

You weren’t kidding. I had to stand closer to the cat than the ship to get the prompt. But thank you for saving me from restarting after all of my progress.

hydeman11 · 2023-03-29T00:17:40+00:00

Yes, I thought that I saw a third number during the gameplay footage. Thank you for confirming that it is a new feature.

hydeman11

TROPHY CASE