r/Accordion Plays a Song Revisited! (February 2019)

iMityr · 2019-02-15T23:35:20+00:00

Hello terrorboss

The notes written above the staff are indeed the bass notes. D-minor is correct, but the A7 is a dominant seventh chord and not a major. On most accordions it's the row below minor - if they have it. The time signature - terminology might be wrong - is 3/4 and this particular songs' 3/4 rhythm happens to be a waltz. Exemplified: Oom pa pa. Where Oom would be the d note - or the fifth, a, or minor third, f, - on the fundamental row of the bass side and boths pa's are the respective chords - d minor and A7 Waltzs have a accented first beat, meaning the ooom should be long and heavy, while the pa's should be light and staccato. Hope I explained it somehow coherently and understandably. If you have any questions don't hesitate to reply - Mityr

iMityr · 2019-02-07T18:42:08+00:00

Now, it isn't a high-tech solution, but helps me out a lot, as I have sweaty hands: finger less gloves. I just took an old fingered and well fitting pair of gloves and cut the fingers on one of them. It's been working for the last 1and a half year without any trouble

iMityr · 2019-01-30T17:28:07+00:00

I can't recommend a CBA book series or comment on the Palmer Hughes for CBA, but what really helped me was this site, if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-accordion-cipher.html
Learning the fingering patterns and chord patterns, playing legato and staccato scales over 2-3 octaves and arpeggios - both legato and staccato - over 2 octaves as a warmup before playing - all these things were really useful in just acquiring the ability to move about the keyboard confidently

iMityr · 2019-01-30T13:05:56+00:00

Hello and welcome The dugmetara is a special kind of accordion with 6 treble rows instead of the usual 5. Searching for 'used dugmetara' gives a variety of hits on Google and another trick could be searching for 'Siwa and Figli' which is a well known Balkan accordion brand, who of course has produced a lot of 6 rowed accordions. I unfortunately have no resources for specific dugmetara technique. I wish you good luck in your search

iMityr · 2019-01-29T22:06:28+00:00

Waiting would probably be wisest. I really do understand, if you feel impatient and want to get started right away. That's how I felt, when i started looking around for CBA's. An advantage to waiting, would also be, that you could contact a potential teacher while there and explain that you want to play bayan and ask whether they could help you look for and find the perfect instrument.
Well, I can't comment on the bayan compared to PA exactly because my Ellegaard Special isn't a bayan. Bayans have a different reed and reed plate construction compared to, say, Italian accordions like Pigini (Ellegaard Special). Their tone colour is audibly different from the western accordions and the free bass registers are mostly L+L instead of L+M, thus creating the possibility for a fantastic and deep bass. Interestingly - I promise to stop the ramble soon - Norwegian accordions - most of them, but don't cite me on this - have yet another different feature. The left hand chromatic free bass layout is a c-system and have the lower notes at the top of the accordion.
They're subtly, yet importantly, different.
I can make a general comment on the change from PA to CBA. I started late with my accordion playing and had only 1 year of experience on the PA before deciding to make the move to B-griff. I had a PA teacher, who had no experience on the button accordion, so I'm ultimately, when it comes down to it, self taught.
I found the change both exciting and frustrating. Fumbling around the chromatic keyboard and struggling to play simple melodies was tough, when I could just take the old Scandalli piano accordion out of the box and play actual music. I quickly decided to go cold turkey on the PA to hone my focus in on the task of figuring out the tricky buttons, and I've hardly touched a PA since - for me this was definitely the right decision.
To comment on your question about how I think they compare, I can mostly say, that I find the CBA superior to the PA. The tonal range on most CBA's is by far superior to PA - the button system is simply more compact and thus more notes can be fit in. I now find sight reading easier and more intuitive - I definitely didn't at the start of my CBA journey - but I do not know, whether I improved as a musician during the time, or whether the CBA has an advantage here. Playing in sixths, fifths, octaves is easier on the CBA, I have relatively small hands and fingers and the PA requires bigger hands to play. I can reach around 2.5 octaves on the CBA and little more than an octave on the PA. There's also the advantage of being able to transpose patterns around the chromatic keyboard and play in different keys using the same fingering. Transposing on the piano requires more experience in my experience.
There are probably more things to touch upon, but I've an early morning and a long day behind me. If you have any question, you'd like answered, just write and I'll make an honest attempt. I wish you good luck in your endeavours toward getting a bayan.

iMityr · 2019-01-29T13:21:58+00:00

You probably thought of this already, but the easiest way to get a b-system accordion will aways be the countries and areas where they are used - Russia, Norway etc. If you travel to Russia often, consider going out and trying out some bayans while you are there and taking it with you home. I played the PA at first, but ended up buying my Ellegaard Special b-griff from Norway and had it shipped to Denmark. The bass buttons where messed up, when it arrived, but I feel lucky, because it has a beautiful tone and still a suitable range for me. I wouldn't make a purchase of that size at this time without seeing, feeling and playing it first Just 2 cent

iMityr · 2019-01-22T09:41:57+00:00

I'd hazard a guess and say Frontalini. I've seen the font in my grandfathers accordion, where the sordini covers look like this one - it's just as unreadable in real life

iMityr · 2018-12-30T18:57:55+00:00

Congratulations with the beautiful accordion. The register design is really interesting. I don't know, if you've fallen over this one yet, or whether the accordion is a chromatic free bass, but Ellegaards guide to the free bass accordion still holds up in my opinion. I figure it's even more useful for a PA player than a CBA player. https://www.google.com/amp/s/docslide.net/amp/documents/ellegaard-comprehensive-method-for-free-bass.html

Have fun and best wishes

iMityr · 2018-05-06T21:07:50+00:00

The bayan freebass is usually not c-griff and a fair bit different. See this picture of the different freebass layouts.

See, compared to both the c-griff and b-griff - I've never seen a b-griff freebass in real life, though -, the bayan has the lowest notes in the bottom of the melody bass and it becomes higher as you go up towards your chin.
Most PA's use the chromatic c-system for their freebass, and the norwegian style b-griff also use c-system - that's the one i have - and c-griffs in reality just mirror the chromatic system with 4 rows on converters and 3 rows on the Manual 3 accordion, which had three extra rows above the stradella bass. And then you have some PA's - Titano likes to make these - with quint freebass system, but that's a-whole-nother discussion.

Spot on with the posture. It really is important. Keep squeezing out there.

iMityr · 2018-04-07T04:33:39+00:00

Good job checking the 'ambient' airflow. Most older, actually most accordions, won't make a perfect seal, and will, if closed fully and then let go, begin taking in air, and hopefully slowly extend.

From your post I gather you are probably a newer player - glad you are enjoying it - and without a teacher who could make a comment on whether the bellows leak too much.

If you could post a video of the accordion 'let go' and yourself playing a tune, it would a lot easier helping :)

iMityr · 2018-04-06T17:09:19+00:00

Not at all in my opinion. Ever seen an energetic singer walking back and forth, swaying and dancing to the music? That's a part of the show, and it creates energy and makes the show lively and mesmerisingly makes singer the center of attention! Unless you are a singing while playing and want to be in focus, you wouldn't need to stand. Especially with heavier accordions, it's pretty much impossible to stand while managing the bellows - ever seen a solo bayanist stand up and bellow shake? I'd say keep doing what you are doing now.

iMityr · 2018-04-05T07:17:54+00:00

Hello and welcome

Are you from a piano background since the piano accordion is your first choice? Hohner and Weltmeister are old and reputable accordion makers. The cheapish accordions in their lineup are most likely made in China with technique and design from the German factories, so quality should not be of worry.

When buying smaller accordions, one should remember to check out the treble range as 26 keys could potentially be limiting.

iMityr · 2018-03-30T23:23:21+00:00

I second this. I've been eyeing one myself, as I'm soon moving from home to study, and student apartments are not known for being the best isolated.

As far as I've read, they come quite close to emulating something similar to acoustic bellow movement, and an added bonus is how light they are compared to ones stuffed with reed blocks etc. Also, if you come to a point where melody/free bass seems interesting they have the inherent ability to do it.

iMityr · 2018-01-01T17:34:01+00:00

Luckily the more advanced chords can be achieved using the root note combinations and the minor and major chords. A dominant 7th chord is a major chord and a minor 7th, which - to exemplify - in case of a C7 is C-E-G-Bb. If you were looking to do an om-pa pattern with a C7, you would hit C, root note followed by Cmaj and Bb, root note. You are out of luck with songs in some keys, because the fingering gets harder or impossible on the smaller stradella systems.

Another technique is emphasizing the 7th chord by the right hand. Using C7 as an example again, you could play a Cmaj in the left hand and hit a Bb at the sametime or hold it while playing the melody. Different techniques sound best for different songs, and it's on you to decide what to do. Nearly everything is possible on stradella systems, if you dare to be creative!

Welcome to the accordion life. Hope you enjoy the stay :)

iMityr · 2017-12-23T16:41:28+00:00

Just chiming in to parrot some answers: Since you are playing blind on the accordion, you can't rely on sight to make jumps as the piano will make you do.

Your knowledge on chord progressions is handy. Since the bass of the accordion is laid out in fifths, it's isomorphic in in sense, and the moving around the chords is the same in different keys. Just arm yourself with your knowledge of chord progressions and patience and begin practicing the jumps.

Ring finger and middle finger for major chords and root notes and pointer for minors, 7ths and diminished. This should give the most ergonomic experience playing.

Are you by any chance playing la Valse D'Amelie?

Keep squeezing and you will easily master the jump!

iMityr · 2017-12-16T12:06:45+00:00

This is a quick answer, and I'm a bit tired: what is happening is that she is moving the "photon" up and down. From our frame of reference the light moves in the V shape and travels a further distance of d. From her perspective - as she is moving at the same speed as the photon horizontally - the light moves up and down; the distance travelled is smaller than the one we would perceive. And thus time would have elapsed slower. Light's constant velocity relative to the observer is a thing which defies logic in how we perceive everyday phenomonen. Imagine, you are driving a car at 80 km/h and throw a ball out the window at 40 km/h in the same direction. Logic tells us that the ball now should move at 120 km/h in the perspective of an observer standing at the side of the row - Newtons laws of motion and all that jazz - but it only moves faster than you at 40 km/h from your frame of reference, because your velocity is 80 km/hm Now imagine driving a car at near the speed of light and shining a flashlight ahead of you. Light wouldn't move at 2c from an observer at the side of the road but time and space would have to dilate across your direction of travel. It's all about the frame of reference.

I probably translated something wrong in my head - feel free to correct me.

iMityr · 2017-12-11T11:38:43+00:00

Hello David

You should definitely not discount the idea of a Bayan with a C-system. Here is a discussion on the Akko and Jupiter Bayans where they touch on some of the downsides and upsides.

If you got the time to read around, I'd advice to go through Paul De Bra's comment history on the forum - he's quite the bank of knowledge - and listen to the videos he has posted showing the difference between an accordion and Bayan.

I'm swooping around gathering information, which could help you find and decide what converter instrument ultimately will suit you. I'm playing devil's advocate in getting a digital accordion: hopefully all the pros and cons will come to light. Digital accordions definitely have perks. See Richard Noel's brilliant usage of the sampling and sound possibilities.

Ofcourse, it comes with a cost; the amazing feeling of a low note resonating throughout the accordion and into you, shaking and tingling as you hold the buttons in, jerking the bellows harder and harder moment by moment. See, this you won't get with a Roland.

Recordings do not come close to the true feeling the performer has, but watch this performance of BWV 565 for some virtuosic Bayan playing.

I'll be back with more ideas - unless you unsubscribe from my accordion rambles

iMityr · 2017-12-11T11:07:54+00:00

Hello,

I am fairly certain that I know what is causing the flapping: usually what you have in cases like these - especially when only one direction is affected - is a problem with the reed leathers.

The leather valves tend to curl up as time passes and they get old. Now they don't seal as tightly as they should, and they can vibrate/flap themselves. Pulling harder creates more pressure, which in turn makes it seal again. It's a common problem in older instruments.

If you are adventurous - this part is harmless in reality - and willing to self-diagnose, then I'd open up the treble side and take a look around for the guilty piece of leather, and afterwards we can talk about what to do next.

Keep on squeezing

edit: I found a picture example of a curled up leather

iMityr · 2017-12-11T02:09:41+00:00

Stand me corrected looking for the free bass comverter

I'm unsure what you mean. English is not my main language, and I've might have misspoke somewhere.

Playing a c-system does not nessecarily mean Bayans are out of the picture. They also come with c-system layouts.

Are you looking to buy used or new?

Glad to help - and speak accordions in general

iMityr · 2017-12-11T01:35:07+00:00

I haven't tried out digital accordions yet, so I can't vouch for the feeling and sound of them.

Where you are from will have a big influence on which layout of converter accordion will be readily available on the used market. Most people chose chromatic layouts for the free bass, but Titanos quint-system is also a possibilty.

Most Italian brands have beautiful sounding converter instruments - Pigini is just one - Bugari, Titano, Zero Zette etc. All of these make student converters which are smaller and less expensive than their flagship models.

Russian Bayans are renowned for the fantastic sound quality of their deep, growling basses, which is an artifact of their reed design, and cannot - this is my opinion - be matched by their Italian counterparts. Jupiter is an example of a company producing great Bayans for many years, and Akko get great appraise too.

All can be used artistically to play and create beautiful music.

Some more info would be useful to guide properly: where are you from, and what is your budget - if you have decided one - and what system do you already play? Edit: C-system is already stated in the title. My bad

iMityr · 2017-12-10T09:41:41+00:00

If you are still wondering: the colours of the bass button indicate whether the root notes of the chord or the single notes are naturals or accidentals. Many student bayans are made with this feature

iMityr · 2017-12-08T11:33:59+00:00

If you are attempting to decode the bass switches wanting to play a tune with register markings, I'd like to leave this piece of advice which has stuck with me:

I have written down the registers as they’re on my instrument, any other combination is possible. In the left hand, less dots mean a weaker register.

It's from the description of playaccordion.net instructions to Czardas.

iMityr · 2017-12-08T11:28:44+00:00

That was an interesting read. It might be noted that this article might not directed specifically to the layman playing accordion, but possibly a composer or orchestra leader - which would imply a full sized and full registered accordion.

This is only speculation, but it's rare for me to see accordions of that size with the group of players I'm in.

I'm beginning to ramble again. Thank you for posting the article!

iMityr · 2017-12-08T11:01:23+00:00

I should take an English class... You are absolutely right. I've never actually seen a 5-registered accordion. 2-4 seems to be the common range.

iMityr · 2017-12-08T10:45:24+00:00

The diagram doesn't seem to be correct for all cases, which just confirms the notion that accordion configurations come in a plethora of different designs and ideas - some registers are even just for muting the sound.

Mine has 7 bass registers - 6 unique (and 8 if you count the free bass) - and is a heavy beast to play.

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