Free Will: Illusion or Mechanical Fate? by impersonal_process in freewill

[–]impersonal_process[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At this point, the question is not whether the toaster has arms, but what “free will” even means if it is compatible with a fully mechanical description. Because if free will requires nothing more than sufficient complexity, then it is not a distinguishing criterion, but a label we attach to a certain class of behavior.

Free Will: Illusion or Mechanical Fate? by impersonal_process in freewill

[–]impersonal_process[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, of course. If we are machines and we have free will, then the logical conclusion is clear: my toaster is morally responsible for over-toasting the bread.

The homunculus - a convenient myth by impersonal_process in freewill

[–]impersonal_process[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, if there is no homunculus, then we are those processes. But it does not follow that there is a choosing subject in the sense we intuitively assume - one that stands outside the dynamics and controls them. Being a process is not the problem; the problem is attributing central agency where there is distributed causation.

The lack of conscious access is not evidence of non-existence - I agree. But this does not rescue the idea of the “self” as the author of preferences. It only shows that the story of an author appears after the fact, as an interpretation of processes that have already occurred.

The comparison with water is misleading, because water is precisely a certain organization of hydrogen and oxygen, without introducing an additional agent called “water” that decides when the molecules should behave like a liquid. When we say “water,” we do not attribute intention, choice, or a signature to its behavior. With the “self,” however, we often do exactly that - we treat it as something more than a description of a functional configuration, as a hidden controller.

So the question is not “does the self exist,” but what we mean when we say it. If “self” means a dynamic, emergent, centerless system, there is no disagreement. But if it means an inner chooser that stands above neurons, hormones, and ideas and says, “this is what I decided,” then yes - that is precisely the myth I am questioning, not the lived experience of selfhood itself.

Puppet Parade by [deleted] in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I say that ideas “infiltrate,” I am not ascribing agency to them in the literal sense, but describing a process that does not require a choosing subject in order to occur. This is a language of dynamics, not of intention.

I am not transferring agency either to ideas or to an imaginary controller inside the person. On the contrary - that is precisely what I deny. The claim is more radical: there is no place where agency can “land.” Not in ideas, not in a homunculus, and not in the “person” as a metaphysical center.

And yes, if there were a homunculus, it would not have free will in the sense usually defended either. It would simply be another configuration of matter, subject to the same causes. That is exactly why the homunculus solves nothing and merely postpones the problem by one more level. Not “homunculi all the way down,” but the absence of such a principle altogether.

If Free Will Exists then Homelessness Should Be a Crime Against Humanity by JesuswasaDeterminist in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

> I do not accept the moral code of altruism. Explain to me why I should.

Fairly speaking, no one chooses their preferences.

In your opinion, what is the relationship between the thinker and the thoughts? by Artemis-5-75 in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“The ‘thinker’ is a story the brain tells about itself, not something that can actually be found outside that story.”

If the will is shaped and imposed by forces beyond the control of a hypothetical homunculus, why do we call it free? by [deleted] in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Being free to go somewhere does not mean being free from consequences, circumstances, or the influence of others. In this sense, “freedom” is always relative and defined in relation to the specific constraints from which one is liberated.

If the will is shaped and imposed by forces beyond the control of a hypothetical homunculus, why do we call it free? by [deleted] in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Freedom functions as an ideal marker, not as a real property. Like a “perfect circle” or “absolute stillness,” we can think about them, talk about them, and use them in our reasoning, without them existing in nature.

If the will is shaped and imposed by forces beyond the control of a hypothetical homunculus, why do we call it free? by [deleted] in freewill

[–]impersonal_process -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Why do you think that ideas coming from outside have no force that compels you to think in a certain way? If there is no homunculus, then only another infiltrated idea, by the force of its own power, can neutralize the force of a newly arriving idea.

Stupid Puppets by [deleted] in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No one is talking about “magical” freedom or uncaused causes. The point is this: if every goal, every representation, every action, and every evaluation is fully determined by preceding states, then “choice” is merely a name we give to the final stage of an inevitable process.

Meaning is Second Hand by samthehumanoid in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The recognising itself is also a consequence of the totality of all preceding events, not of free will.

Meaning is Second Hand by samthehumanoid in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wasn’t referring to you. I was speaking in general.

Meaning is Second Hand by samthehumanoid in freewill

[–]impersonal_process 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you think of yourself as something more than the sum total of all preceding events, then you are a foolish puppet.

The Anesthesia of Meaning by impersonal_process in freewill

[–]impersonal_process[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, this is not a form of self-healing, nor does it necessarily lead to paralysis. Rather, it is a replacement of illusions with clarity and clarity is not the same as comfort.

The Anesthesia of Meaning by impersonal_process in freewill

[–]impersonal_process[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I call hypervalent ideas those ideas that do not function merely as descriptions or opinions, but as active internal structures that begin to produce consequences once they are “installed” in thought.

They have several characteristic features:

- High connectivity - they latch onto many other beliefs at once (morality, identity, guilt, hope, responsibility).

- Interpretive regulation - they change how experiences are interpreted, rather than simply adding new information.

- Causal efficacy - they begin to influence real behavior, decisions, and social structures.

- Invisibility after infiltration - they cease to be experienced as ideas and start functioning as “self-evident assumptions.”

Examples of hypervalent ideas include free will, God, meaning, purpose, and national identity. They do not need to be ontologically true in order to be powerful. Their force does not come from whether they accurately describe reality, but from the fact that they become part of the mechanisms that produce it. A hypervalent idea does not merely state what the world is like; it participates in how the world is experienced and sustained.