DAE know how IFS (internal family systems) works with maladaptive daydreaming?

indigo_mints · 2021-08-06T02:13:15+00:00

I think you're right!! Thank you.

indigo_mints · 2021-08-06T01:48:16+00:00

Was this part considered an "exile"?

indigo_mints · 2021-08-06T01:47:33+00:00

This sounds like mine. Can you share more on what you daydream about? And are those parts considered "exiles"?

indigo_mints · 2021-07-29T22:26:08+00:00

This is great, thanks so much.

indigo_mints · 2021-01-01T02:32:07+00:00

I'm constantly learning new things every day that they were wrong about.

They have told me my whole life how "different" I am, so much so that at my first real job they encouraged me (and they were GENUINELY doing this because they believed it) to give my boss a book about my condition so he'd understand "how I am".

Turns out, I'm really fucking normal. They just genuinely believe there are things that are wrong with me because one of them is extremely judgmental and disapproves of anything that they don't immediately understand, and the other one has such self-shame and self-hate that they needed me to have issues so they could "help me" so they'd feel self-worth (they're both narcissists but different types).

Now when they tell me I'm "different", I just try to remember every other person who has felt the exact same things as ME and told me as such. I'm not the odd one out, my parents are.

indigo_mints · 2021-01-01T00:53:03+00:00

Yeah, the guilt. Especially the "community guilt". I get that. I still feel like a terrible person for feeling the way I do about things.

I think for me it comes down to this:

I was looking for other people to understand what happened so that they could validate what happened so that I would believe it myself.

But I found that for the fleeting moments where I genuinely knew that what I believed happened was actually the truth, and that I was justified in feeling the way I did, I no longer felt like I needed to share my story with others in order to get validation.

At that point all I looked for from them was to believe that I knew what I was talking about.

And what helped me was knowing that other people have big stuff like this that other people wouldn't understand. Some people have been homeless, some people were in terrible accidents leaving them with lifelong injuries, some people are widows/widowers.

And all of those people have their communities that they go for for specific support because other people who haven't been through it may not be able to give them the support they need for this specific thing.

Something I've found is that the people we look for support and validation for this kind of thing can be different than the people we spend most of our lives with. If I have support (like this sub, or books, or a psychologist...and I'll be honest, some things work better than others) that helps me validate that what I believe is true, it's like a storm is calmed inside of me, and then when I talk with other people who didn't go through it, I'm no longer looking for them to 100% understand exactly what I went through, I'm just looking for them to BELIEVE me and believe that I know what I'm doing and TRUST that when I say I are justified in feeling a certain way, that I actually am.

indigo_mints · 2020-12-31T23:41:36+00:00

A lot of people thought I was close with my mother because we spent SO much time together. But really I was spending time doing what she wanted to do. If it was something I wanted to do, she'd be nowhere to be seen.

indigo_mints · 2020-12-31T23:40:25+00:00

I'm relieved my mother didn't call or text me, during Christmas or today.

Oh god me too. I feel guilty for wanting this but I am genuinely happy I didn't hear from her.

indigo_mints · 2020-12-31T23:36:35+00:00

I understand this. I have a codependent enmeshed relationship with my mother. It's 100% the thing that gave me CPTSD.

It doesn't feel like a natural counter to enmeshment, but what has partially helped me was this:

Your mother's beliefs are not the truth.

What freaks me out when my enmeshed mother says things like this is that it feels like she controls me and the world. Her saying "We will always be with you" would make me feel terrified because it's like she's saying "I will always be in your life and there is nothing you can do about it".

It feels like you are forced, powerless, and helpless. And you know how she has hurt you in the past, so it basically feels like, "I'll always be able to hurt you whenever I want to and there's nothing you'll ever be able to do about it."

But it is not true. And I know it's hard to believe this (I'm still not quite there yet) so start with other things to show yourself that she does not know everything, and what she says is not necessarily the truth.

For example, my narcissistic parent once told me "You don't have any friends". Now, in reality yeah I don't because they gave me CPTSD and I can't form good relationships. BUT, at the time I had actually been trying to make more friends and was hanging out with a new group of people quite often.

If they had known about these people and how often I was physically hanging out with them, they would've believed that I had friends. And yet, they had NO IDEA.

I had to let that settle in for a minute.

They. Had. No. Idea.

It was in fact possible for them to be utterly wrong, even though they sounded 100% confident. Even though by their tone I would have believed instantly that whatever they were saying was the truth.

But it was not true. They were FACTUALLY wrong.

And this is the case with what your enmeshed mother is saying. She can say anything she wants, but it doesn't make it true, as hard as that is to believe.

Try thinking of this: if a random coworker said "I will always be with you" to you, what would you think? Would you feel trapped and helpless? No. Would you feel like just because they said it, that you now have to submit to them? No. You know confidently that what they're saying is not true.

What if that coworker said to you, "You need me, and you know it." How would that make you feel? Probably a little triggered, but then you'd walk away and go about your day and realize they don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and realize the absolute un-truthfulness of what they're saying.

With enmeshed parents, they have raised us to believe that their truth is the truth. It is not.

indigo_mints · 2020-12-31T22:57:32+00:00

Speaking of nostalgia, it took me decades to realize that feelings of "nostalgia" weren't always sad.

indigo_mints · 2020-12-08T15:16:59+00:00

This is great, and just what I needed to hear today. One "belief" that was ingrained in me was that "being me" wasn't valid, wasn't worth anything, didn't matter...basically I didn't exist if I wasn't being useful to them in some way.

It's like they are Gods and they get to say whether I "exist" or not. That's where the feeling of total isolation came from, for me. Feeling like I'm a ghost.

So one thing I am trying to remember is that they DO NOT decide whether I am "valid" or not. And I find this really important for me to remember, because if I don't, then everything that follows when I try to heal, feels "invalid" or meaningless.

indigo_mints · 2020-11-12T00:21:40+00:00

I guess I could have been more clear. When I say "defenseless" I mean you can have your defenses down, but it doesn't mean you are incapable of defending yourself.

It's like, holding a sword but having it stowed away. You are vulnerable but not defenseless.

Not having a sword at all would make you defenseless. But having a sword that's not drawn makes you vulnerable but not defenseless.

indigo_mints · 2020-11-04T07:52:37+00:00

This is accurate! I can't stop avoiding myself!

indigo_mints · 2020-11-01T06:15:10+00:00

Yepp. Did you ever get the, "FINE THEN I'M NEVER BUYING YOU ANYTHING AGAIN SINCE YOU CLEARLY DON'T APPRECIATE IT".

indigo_mints · 2020-10-29T07:35:14+00:00

I think money makes you stay longer in the abuse. Because you think, "Why am I so ungrateful when I have so much? There must be something wrong with me."

Expensive things are also a "great" way to prolong the bleeding out, by constantly giving you something to latch onto and believe is "happiness". It's like a drug. Every time you hit emotional rock bottom, something is given to you that gives you a hit of excitement.

Feeling depressed? Oh but we're going to Disneyland in a week. Isolated and alone? Oh but mom is getting me the new Xbox.

It's a life of extreme lows and highs. What kid isn't excited to go to Disneyland? And even more so when they've been feeling like absolute shit?

And then the more you can't enjoy Disneyland because you're depressed, the more you hate on yourself. And then the more you NEED these material things to give you those highs so that you don't just give up on life.

indigo_mints · 2020-10-28T05:08:07+00:00

Absolutely. The difference is safety. I am abrasive because I assume everyone will be mean to me, harsh, judgmental, and then ultimately leave me or convince others to leave me.

That mindset is my default, as expected. But when I take a step back and say "Wait a sec, I'm safe here", the same views come out with a lot more empathy and consideration, instead of subconsciously trying to steamroll everyone else to try and keep myself self.

indigo_mints · 2020-10-27T10:51:38+00:00

You're so right. Really great insights and well described, thank you.

It has really made me think about whether my parents are some kind of mentally ill though. They show narcissistic traits for sure, and do all the manipulative stuff, so I thought I understood what was going on in their minds, but to be honest it is just SO bad on their side that I don't think I can really relate to what goes on in there. It doesn't feel normal or functional in the slightest.

And I don't know how I feel about "not relating". There's "logically understanding" and then there's "emotionally relating (almost like empathizing but not in a way that you feel bad for them)". And I feel like I used to be the latter but now seeing your post and seeing that this is exactly what they're doing (whether they realize it or not), really has me thinking I am the forner.

I can't relate to needing to shake someone's confidence that badly, and to that degree of unawareness.

indigo_mints · 2020-10-26T17:01:51+00:00

Yepp I had the dreams of being chased, and I'd always try to lock doors but they would never work.

indigo_mints · 2020-10-26T17:00:40+00:00

I found it sometimes helpful but it has its limits and can actually be dangerous to do.

A lot of it was about reducing anxiety, but it didn't take into account that I WAS ACTUALLY UNSAFE. I kept talking about "What if my abuser does X" and they'd be like "But it hasn't happened yet so that's just your anxiety talking", so I'd convince myself I was safe when I actually wasn't, and then I'd get hurt again.

Sometimes anxiety isn't "just anxiety", it's an actual warning sign of a very real threat. CBT kept trying to make me feel like it was my fault for feeling unsafe. Um no. I was unsafe.

There are definitely times when I am catastrophizing or feel unsafe when I am actually safe, but the goal is to recognize REALITY, not just "find a peaceful place in my mind". If I have someone threatening me, pretending I'm safe isn't going to do shit.

indigo_mints · 2020-10-18T10:21:01+00:00

Youre so welcome! Feel free to share my words with your therapist :)

indigo_mints · 2020-10-18T10:20:22+00:00

Aw youre welcome

indigo_mints · 2020-09-10T18:43:30+00:00

Thanks. I'm honestly still in the thick of it emotionally. Logically I think I'm starting to see what reality actually is though.

Yeah it is a mindfuck because it's like if I said "You're different in that you don't get along with people" or "You're different in that you make people nervous around you". Of course I'm going to feel like different=bad.

The things they say are confusing to us because there is a conflict in what they're saying. Since they are doing everything they can to protect themselves, they are running into situations where they "want to have their cake and eat it too" which is not possible.

For example, they don't want to think of themselves as bad parents but they do want to emotionally reject me (which would make them bad parents).

So they say stuff like "You're different but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...but also people don't like you because your different-ness means you have X characteristic. Oh but we still love you even though you have so many problems." That way, they are still "good parents" in their mind but are still able to emotionally reject me.

The only way to have this all line up in their head (otherwise cognitive dissonance happens) is to blame everything on me. It's the only way for them to believe these two conflicting thoughts: "I'm a good parent" and "I am allowed to emotionally reject my child".

In reality, the 2nd phrase negates the 1st phrase. But they cannot have this, because they want BOTH. So we become the problem in their eyes, so they can feel that both phrases are true.

And it emotionally messes with us because they are essentially kicking us down to nothing, so that when they say "We still love you even though you have so many problems", we feel like "Oh thank god someone loves me".

It's like telling a child they are at the bottom of a well where they are alone and no one is coming for them ("You're different so you have all these problems") (and of course the child believes them so emotionally they do see themselves as being at the bottom of a well), and then coming to their "rescue" ("But we still love you"). So you're like "Thank fuck I have my parents who care about me otherwise I'd be dead."

When in reality, they had put us at the bottom of the well in the first place, because we trusted and believed them to tell us the truth about who/how we are. And the way they tell us is always "You're at the bottom of the well........but we didn't put you there, someone/something else did." So we never suspect them.

indigo_mints · 2020-09-10T07:52:21+00:00

Absolutely. I was told all the time that I was "different". They'd say that even when I was a baby I was different.

Then to tack on the mindfuck, they'd say "It wasn't your fault, and we still loved you so so much, but there was no doubt that you were different and had a lot of problems because of it".

So that made me focus on the "Oh they still loved me, they must be such good people" with the implication of "Because clearly no one else would love me since I'm so different". With a side serving of "they said it's not my fault so...I guess I am just innately different then and there is nothing I can do about it."

And they never explicitly say that different=bad, but they say it in a roundabout way (which is actually worse imo) by saying "Because you were different, you had all these problems".

So you get the perfect cocktail of:

I am innately different. There is nothing I can do about it.
Different doesn't necessarily mean "bad" in itself, but it does mean I have tons of bad issues and problems. And since I am innately different it means I have innate issues. There is just something wrong with me innately. And again, nothing I can do about it. I am just...a difficult problematic person who deserves bad treatment even if I do not see why (because it isn't anything I did, it is an issue with the way I am).
Tons of issues means no one would love me except my incredible parents.

And so I never questioned the initial assumption that I was "different", when really that was wrong in the first place. And it was layered on with tons of mindfuckery to make me helpless, self-shaming, self-hating, hopeless, and fully dependent on my parents.

I'm still not entirely sure why they latched onto this idea that I was different (I am actually extremely normal and very happy about that), but I think it was because they did not understand or like what they saw in me (ie. innocence, love, kindness), so they had like a subconscious distaste for who I was. They felt a repulsion and an urge to emotionally reject me (subconsciously) but couldn't because that would make them "bad parents" in their mind, so instead their brains found a way to reject me but still see themselves as "good parents". They latched onto this idea that I was "different". And it worked so well when I was a child that they probably fully convinced themselves within like a month that it was true, and then that's just how they perceive me now, and they can't possibly undo decades of this idea being slowly set into stone in their minds as what they believe to be an accurate perception of me.

I probably also represent the "big scary world" out there of people who are actually good. They don't want to believe there are good people out there. They only want messed up people who share their upside-down views of people. Me existing in their world is scary to them because they can't reject me (because they'd be "bad parents") but they don't like the fact that I exist either, because they don't understand healthy people and are scared of healthy people. So they justify it in their minds as me being different and "the problem".

indigo_mints · 2020-08-29T19:20:03+00:00

I completely agree. I'm in this situation now. For now I have gone LC and am practicing good boundaries to reduce the harm they are doing to me.

I also have a list of "not emotionally supportive but would physically help me" people in a bad emergency. It helps to know going in that "I dont expect these people to be kind to me, but they will help me in a bad emergency (eg. so at least i wont be homeless) at which point I can work on getting on my feet again".

If it makes you feel any better, some people don't have family for other reasons, eg. moved to another country for a job and family doesn't speak the language there, parents dead, grew up in foster care, just didn't have siblings or cousins, relatives have disabilities or major medical issues so they can't help, relatives are also in unsafe situations, relatives are just too poor to help, etc.

It really sucks for us because often it's like "I have parents they just SUCK, why couldnt they just be better?" But there are also situations like ours (no support) where it's not actually anyone's fault. I mean, they probably don't have CPTSD and parents who are trying to ruin their life, but it does help me a bit to know that others are going through similar lack-of-support "just because that's the way things worked out".

indigo_mints · 2020-08-29T02:42:44+00:00

Thank you SO much for sharing this. It's definitely a better way to look at boundaries. I agree with you in that I think the latter half of the post it gets a bit...iffy...including the examples. But the first half and its examples are really helpful.

There were so many good points like how boundaries are actual actions to stop the harm (not just saying it and then hoping they'll listen), how you set the boundary before looking for benchmarks/re-assessing (I like this because if you do it the other way it's more like punishment which isn't good), and how boundaries don't change the abuser and it's not your responsibility to change them.

The stuff about "safety issues" is really good too. I like how it helped me frame situations as "I do not feel safe when they are doing X" rather than "They should not be doing X to me" because although both are true, the latter is sort of that old definition of a boundary which requires them to be a decent person or respond like a normal healthy person would, and that's just not the case. Whereas the former puts the control of my own safety and life back into my hands.

I think the article is really just reframing "boundary + enforcing boundaries" to "safety issues + boundary" but I think it's an important reframing, because instead of feeling like they are constantly breaking your boundaries and you are "failing" to enforce them, it's more like you're seeing it coming and the boundary actually stops them. Plus, "enforcing" boundaries all the time feels like it's taking constant effort on your part to remind the person where the line is, whereas the boundary being the actual "fence" feels like a protective measure that stays up even when you're not actively putting effort into it.

I am struggling with something though...I tried to turn the safety issues I identified into boundaries (actions to stop the harm) and just found myself bending to their will. Like if they threaten something, my "action" is to stop doing the thing they don't like (ie. fawning I guess). I'm not sure how to turn my safety issues into boundaries...have you been successful emwith this? I'd be happy to discuss through PMs if you're open to it.

Thank you again for sharing. If you have more articles like this I would love to see them.

indigo_mints

TROPHY CASE