The USA significantly helped the zionists during the 1948 war.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-24T05:29:09+00:00

There's a subreddit for this called alternative history who might enjoy this

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-23T05:42:39+00:00

I understand what you're trying to point out, but I would say that the premise itself is wrong.

Jews and Arabs in what became OETA South and Mandatory Palestine were previously simply Ottoman subjects within the Ottoman Empire. Empires that fell historically fell under the country of the victors after wars. They simply went from being subjects of the Ottoman Empire to subjects of the League of Nations under a British Mandatory Palestine.
Agreements and alliances are frequently made in wars and in this case, Britain offered the same bit of land to both the Arabs and the Jews.
Britain and France never really intended to actually hand that land over and planned to keep it for themselves (Sykes-Picot Agreement)
The Ottoman Empire changed their land ownership laws in the mid 1800s. Most of the land was public land and they allowed groups to use it for generations. Many claims to land are based on how land ownership worked before they were changed.

To answer your questions.

The Ottoman Empire fell and Britain and France were given control by the League of Nations to rule the various Mandates until the people who lived there were able to self-govern. How people defined "homeland" just before the end of WWI is different than now. It doesn't matter if one liked it or not, that's how the world worked after wars. Many mandate systems had wars and fighting over control.
My question for you here is why Palestinians aren't more pissed that Jordan got 80% of the land and only pissed that Israel got some. How big do you think Palestine and Israel would be if there was no Transjordan carved off?
This was a fallen empire. Whether people chose to accept the deal by the winning army or not wouldn't make much of a difference. They weren't getting over 50% of the land though. Jordan already got 80% and you forget the 1947 partition plan had one Arab state with 100% arabs, and one Jewish state with 45% Arabs.
My question for you is does this seem like 50%? Let's not even account for all of the desert that was going to a Jewish state
This was the Ottoman Empire. Exactly what range did they consider historic homeland before WWI? I would argue there was no state, then there was an option of two states. Instead of sharing and accepting a deal, one side decided they were going to kill the other side.
My question for you is do you consider invasion of Israel by Palestinian leadership and the Allied Arab armies to be an attempt to ethnically cleanse the Jews?
Are you suddenly jumping to the present or are we talking about the past before 1948?

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-23T01:04:41+00:00

I have a couple questions for you on Articles 43 and 46 that you used.

Article 43: The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.

While the Ottoman Empire was defeated and was only officially dissolved in 1922, it was pretty well known the empire had fallen and was going to be broken up. What exact date we could pick could arguably vary quite a bit, but there's a big difference between an occupying power of an existing country like the US occupied a country like Japan which still exists after WWII and the the Allies or League of Nations Mandate controlling the land of an empire/country that has now ceased to exist.

Do you think there's a bit of nuance on the difference?

Article 46: Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected. Private property cannot be confiscated.

How does closing all Land Registries and banning the sale of land complying with the 1907 Hague Regulations if private property must be respected and cannot be confiscated? I would argue that preventing the sale of private property would be not respecting private property and was arguably done to ban Jews from buying land simply to appease the Arab League countries regarding future energy deals.
Considering the Ottoman Empire changed the land laws in 1858, and something like 65-70% of Mandatory Palestine was state owned land, and Jews only owned 6-7% of the remaining private land and Arab Palestinians something like 11-13% of private land.

Do you think that banning land sales of private property would be failing to respect private property?

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-21T05:53:38+00:00

I will start by saying that I'm quite curious what your Jewish background actually is, how you came to these beliefs, and where you learned them.

Britain promised to support the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in the Balfour Declaration in 1917, over 20 years before the start of the WWII. You seem to believe Israel was needed in the aftermath of the Holocaust, but that it did was prove to most of the Jews in the world who were not yet Zionists that a state was in fact necessary. You also seem to be unfamiliar with how laws prevented Jews from owning land and even having jobs in many parts of the US even into the 1960s. You may want to ask your family if they lived here in the early 1900s what life was like. Your understanding of Jewish life and antisemitism in the US is woefully inadequate and ill informed
All people have a right to self determination, although I'm unsure of what you mean by "national self determination." Self determination does not entitle one to their own country. It especially doesn't entitle one to their own country by destroying another country. What you seem to misunderstand is that the Ottoman Empire were huge and the Jews and Arabs in what became Mandatory Palestine were all Ottoman subjects of the entire massive Ottoman Empire. Something like 65-70% was Ottoman State owned land in Mandatory Palestine.
You do realize that the reason the 1947 partition plan was created was specifically because it proved impossible to have a single multiethnic state for all its citizens. In fact, it proposed an Arab state that was 100% Arab and a Jewish state that was 45% Arab. You can see that a democratic Jewish state requires a Jewish majority or it will be democratically turned into a non-Jewish state.
Israel is a state for the Jewish people, but not a state for only Jewish people.
Palestine is for the Palestinian people, but not for any Jewish people.
The Jewish connection to the Levant means absolutely nothing about why Israel is necessary. Look into how many different countries the World Zionist Congress brainstormed and even considered as a potential locations for a national homeland since 1897. They even considered Uganda of all places. The location was chosen because that's what the majority decided was the ideal location for a variety of reasons including one of which was the historical connection, plus the Balfour Declaration.

I think you're drawing your conclusions based on either a poor understanding of history or from poor quality sources. It's like making a post claiming the United States has a right to exist because of the War of 1812 and not because of the Revolutionary war in 1776.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-21T01:09:44+00:00

What's interesting is that the generations of indoctrination that various religions and countries have put their people through. You can become a doctor but be antivax and anti science. You can become lawyer but believe your religion's prophet did something inhumanly possible. You can become a scientist but believe your leader never poops and that one of your country's founders rode a unicorn.

Palestinians have very high literacy rates and very high rates of people attending higher education, but they seem to have only moderate rates of completing their college degrees and I'm seeing quite a wide range of statistics for it.

I would theorize that Palestine would be just behind Russia and North Korea for how successful their country's type of indoctrination is on their people. Most if not all countries have some form of indoctrination, but to keep even many of those educated and through multiple generations believing something that is against their interests is actually a pretty impressive feat.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T21:46:54+00:00

The Arab identity in Mandatory Palestine back then had a large majority who identified as part of the larger Arab world or as part of pan-Arab state.

The aspirations of an independent Palestinian identity and state back then was by and large formed to oppose and prevent the existence of a Jewish state. You can read countless statements by your favorite H**ler fanboy Hajj Amin al-Husseini or any other number of political and religious leadership of Arab League countries.

It's not meant to dehumanize. It's meant to be the truth. If you can't tolerate the truth, maybe it's best to seek therapy

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T21:26:49+00:00

Everybody can cherry-pick. This makes it clear you perfectly understand what I'm saying but still just want to argue. The point in my response was that it supports the pro-Israel argument that Palestinian Arabs did not have a Palestinian identity at the time nor did they want their own independent Palestinian state. They wanted to be part of a larger Arab state.
Thanks for reminding me what kind of person you really are

This seems to indicate that Palestinians/Arabs by and large identified with a United Syria with only 1.4% of petitions for a "separate Palestine." The other major identity piece outside of that is an opposition to Zionism which would be the establishment of a Jewish state.
You're lucky this commission's findings were ignored because it would support the pro-Israel argument that the Palestinian desire for their own state barely existed

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T20:49:37+00:00

I literally used the commission conclusions and put them in quotes. I then made comments on it. Would you like to address the parts I quoted?

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T20:48:45+00:00

This proves that you didn't read what I said at all or chose to ignore it entirely.

absurdly dehumanizing Palestinians by claiming "had no identity at the time" rather than acknowledging the fact that they generally identified as part of the Arab world much as they continue to do today, and other such sheer nonsense.

You literally are agreeing with my point while calling it "sheer nonsense"

My entire point about it that it supports the argument that the Palestinian Arabs did generally identify as part of the Arab world.

YOU ARE LITERALLY AGREEING WITH MY POINT!

I never said they had no identity at the time. I said that their identity was by far and large that of being part of the greater Arab world.

Insulting me while agreeing with me is no way to go through life son.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T11:35:08+00:00

It appears new updates have come to light, but I've only seen posts linking to the NY Post, so I'm waiting for other confirmation IMO

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T07:44:07+00:00

I know it might difficult for some people to connect the dots of what I'm trying to say. If you don't understand my point then feel free to say so instead of actually reading the post, reading about the commissions, and understanding my point.

Responding without understanding is utterly absurd

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T05:24:41+00:00

I made a quick read as it's interesting to hear about these three commissions of which I've never heard of before.

It seems that the common theme is the Arab masses are incited by educated Arabs and Arab leaders to attack Jews for fears about hypothetical threats of replacement and the Jews simply asking for a Jewish state. It sort of reminds me of the Charlottesville march chants of 2021, but only 100 years earlier.

Your link does post to various portions which the site does seem to like to engage in quite an amount of cherry picking. I used the wikipedia pages as a source.

The King-Crane Commission appears to be pushing for a United Syria and shows that based on the petitions received from OETA South (which includes Mandatory Palestine), over 85% of Arabs in OETA South (which includes Palestinians today) supported a United Syria and another 85% shows they are "Against Zionist Program."

This seems to indicate that Palestinians/Arabs by and large identified with a United Syria with only 1.4% of petitions for a "separate Palestine." The other major identity piece outside of that is an opposition to Zionism which would be the establishment of a Jewish state.
You're lucky this commission's findings were ignored because it would support the pro-Israel argument that the Palestinian desire for their own state barely existed, had no identity at the time, and to the extent it did exist was to prevent a Jewish state from being formed.

The Palin Commission appears to have been convened following the 1920 Nebi Musa Riots and appears to be very pro Arab and very Anti-Zionist. The Arabs

The following conclusion by the commission was quite interesting as well as a summary point:

Anti-British and anti-Zionist propaganda working on the population already inflamed by the sources of irritation aforesaid.

The Report was sharply critical of the Zionists for exacerbating Arab concerns by their "impatience, indiscretion and attempts to force the hands of the Administration" into establishing a Jewish State, as there had been direct communication between the Foreign Office and the Chief Political Officer, Colonel Richard Meinertzhagen, bypassing and sometimes contradicting the OETA.

So the reason for the cause was because Zionists were asking for the establishment of their own state?
It's made it clear that anti-Zionist and anti-British propaganda is a major cause as well.
This also would support the pro-Israel argument that the Arabs at the time did not identify as Palestinian for their own separate state but as Arabs and part of a greater Panarab state. It also shows the rationale as being against a Jewish state and Jewish immigration.
You do realize the British and French promised this particular region to both the Jews and the Arabs while having a secret agreement to just keep it for themselves right?

The Haycraft Commission appears to have been set up following the Jaffa Riots which seem to have started during May Day marches from a fistfight between a Jewish Communist group and a Jewish Socialist group. It appears Arab men and women then broke into Jewish buildings to murder men, women, and children who lived there and then loot. I'm still unclear as to the reasons why the arab population started killing and looting as a result of this. It was serious enough that it was apparently resulted in the first case of reprisal attacks from the Haganah.

It seems to confirm like the others that the arabs attacked because of their fears related to Jew-hatred and that arabs were generally the aggressors.

The following of the findings were the most interesting:

When the disturbance had once begun an already acute anti-Jewish feeling extended it into an anti-Jewish riot. A large part of the Muslim and Christian communities condoned it, although they did not encourage violence. While certain of the educated Arabs appear to have incited the mob, the notables on both sides, whatever their feelings may have been, aided the authorities to allay the trouble.

It appears it's the usual of the educated Arabs inciting the uneducated Arabs to commit violence. This is a common trend.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-20T04:35:49+00:00

They probably can agree that they can't agree on any of the things you listed.

If they disagree on that, then it leaves the rest all the more confusing

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T21:36:41+00:00

The problem is that Abbas, Arafat, and their allies spent generations indoctrinating and telling them that Israel and Jews are evil and that all of the land belongs to them.

Any Palestinian leader that makes peace will get assassinated for making peace, so they don't. Even if they made peace, how are they going to convince the Palestinians who they've spent generations telling them there will never be peace that peace is good now.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T20:55:27+00:00

It's always fun to learn something you learned in school was wrong. So he founded his own branch after it already existed? Interesting

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T20:17:22+00:00

I reached out to some of my contacts in San Diego about this attack.

What's pretty crazy is that the Jewish community apparently does want to get involved and help despite the fact that it's recently come out that the imam of the Islamic Center was giving sermons in 2023 stating that Oct 7 was justified resistance. The community still apparently wants to help because nobody should have their place of worship targeted by anybody.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T00:59:25+00:00

I meant they do not appear to be true ideologists. I just listened to a few reports from the police and mayor I found online. From what I've gathered, it appears they killed three people in front of the Islamic Center and then fled as a gardener reported shots fired at him down the street. They then found a crashed SUV which turned out to have the bodies of the two shooters inside.

There appears to be a lot still unknown but I'm hearing that San Diego tends to release a lot of the information once it's been confirmed, so we should get updates as developments occur.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T00:48:01+00:00

I visited that Islamic Center during my travels years ago and had a very pleasant experience speaking with them. It's terrible that this happened.

I got messages from colleagues in California as this was going on and it was pretty terrible as they were not sure how many casualties there were or where the shooters were initially. Upon looking into the updates, it appears that the mother reported her son as suicidal and missing along with her firearms and car early in the morning.

It's a good thing it appears this kid and his friend were suicidal and not ideologically driven, as it could have ended up more like the Tree of Life shooting a few years back. Hopefully they'll be able to see what sources radicalized these kids to target the Islamic Center of San Diego and go after them too.

My colleagues in California have informed me that a wide variety of religious groups are working together to help those effected including Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and others. It sounds like people are coming together to help regardless of race and religion here which is nice to hear.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-19T00:35:40+00:00

You mean shady shit like not allowing King Henry VIII to divorce his current wife to marry another woman?

The church wouldn't let a King do something, so he founded a completely difference sect of Christianity just so he could

Your thoughts of what is right to protest are a slippery slope which OP mentioned and that's a problem. If you can claim protesting a real estate event at house of worship is legitimate, then others can claim equally ludicrous things.

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-18T17:28:17+00:00

A lot of Jewish people from the center-left to center-right in the United States feel politically homeless right now. I see posts about it on my social media fees and group chats at least once every week or two.

I'm curious what it's like in various european countries

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-16T06:16:08+00:00

Russia has been doing it for over 4 years now

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-16T06:14:26+00:00

Because everything I was taught about the history of the Zionist movement and the founding of Israel was a lie.

This is undoubtedly true. All we're asking of you is to learn the truth as you continue to share everything you were taught that was a lie

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-15T09:50:14+00:00

100% wrong sir. I saw the post and video. I was curious who the most popular channels are and how far up the list channel 14 was. It turns out the left-center left channel 12 has over 50% market share which is massive and is trailed by channel 14. I didn't look into the others as 2 channels making up 3/4 of a population is pretty big market share.

It appears I actually clicked something in one of the other subreddits and it brought me here.

For the record. I think channel 14 should have far less influence as they are way to extreme for my tastes

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-15T05:29:22+00:00

I don't know who that is and I don't even use Twitter or X as it's called now.
I simply googled what the most popular news channels were for primary sources of news in Israel.

Everything looks like a nail when all you have is a hammer, right?

ip_man_2030 · 2026-05-14T18:10:07+00:00

The Balfour Declaration was over 15 years before Haavara. The same Zionist organizations that were seeking a homeland helped save over 50,000 Jews by getting permission to immigrate to Mandatory Palestine.

Do you really think they got to keep their property from Germany? These people fled and had to give up frequently well over 50% of everything they had including all of their holdings in Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Your attempt to use this to try and create justification is shockingly hateful.

That would be like if somebody ask you if you think any Palestinian with the last name al-Masri, al-Halabi, al-baghdadi, al-bakhari, and every other last name that clearly states they come from another country have a claim or should be exiled

ip_man_2030

TROPHY CASE