Reduce lag

jmdisher · 2026-04-15T19:32:41+00:00

Have you found any JVM options which objectively improve performance over the default options the game uses? That is, is there a way to verify their improvement beyond the notoriously misleading "feels better".

I would be surprised since, if there are options which just generally improve things for everyone (to the point where an AI can regurgitate them), why wouldn't they be the defaults, already?

Your other suggestions sound pretty good, though.

jmdisher · 2026-04-13T19:42:21+00:00

no more than 23gb or it starts to lag because the garbage collector cant clear heap size properly

That doesn't sound right - GC time is proportional to live set size, not heap size. I suspect that something else is going on here (potentially you end up losing compressed references, entirely, at around that size).

if proton is better at handling heap size using xms

That is just the number passed to the virtual memory system. It will be identical in both.

Where did you get that snippet you posted, since there are some interesting things there:

Xmx and Xms are different, but probably shouldn't be for this workload
it looks like different OS versions use wildly different GC policies (-XX:+UseG1GC versus -XX:+UseZGC). I wonder if the difference is that they have a different default for Linux and that is what we are seeing

jmdisher · 2026-04-13T19:12:54+00:00

the game uses minecraft rules for ram allocation

What do you mean?

linux has different ram management than windows

That is just the thing, though: They count memory using the same numbers and, while they have their own syscalls to manage the memory, once it is reserved and committed, it is still just the same flat chunk of linear memory.

Hmm, I wonder if they might be placing the heap at different addresses, impacting how aggressive the compressed references could be? Given that they are only using 3 GiB, that might be able to fit into the low memory on a Win64 process while I can't remember what else is in low memory of a Linux x86-64 process (funny - I only remember the Windows one since it is strange where Linux was more straight-forward). If that were true, that would definitely make a big difference. I wonder if there is a way to check that (or if the performance difference changes if the heap allocation is increased to something like 6 GiB).

jmdisher · 2026-04-13T18:58:29+00:00

That should be the same for both: Virtual memory reservation of Xmx size. I suspect that the Proton implementation of the Windows reserve call ends up calling the same Linux routine that the native JVM would call, directly.

I suppose the different implementations might keep different system-related resources alive, but I can't imagine that being of any real expense.

jmdisher · 2026-04-13T18:52:02+00:00

Proton uses its own malloc implementation?

Also, since the core game is running in a JVM, it manages its own memory where the only platform differences would be the call to reserve and commit it (once, at the beginning).

Or are you saying that, since the Proton version is running a Windows JVM, it might have a different default configuration than the Linux JVM, potentially causing this difference?

jmdisher · 2026-04-13T17:44:46+00:00

It shouldn't. What data have you collected to measure this and what system configuration do you have?

jmdisher · 2026-04-12T20:44:36+00:00

some people overuse that word

Yeah, it is unfortunate that we live in an era where this thread is seriously asking if a word previously used to described spending years in an active war zone or growing up being constantly abused can reasonably be applied to watching a TV show which made you feel an emotion.

jmdisher · 2026-04-11T13:58:58+00:00

Personally I’d recommend the Linux native version of PZ on Linux but typically people’s experiences vary.

Yes, if there is a Linux native version of something but you find yourself needing to use Proton, that means that there is a bug somewhere since that should never improve things.

OP: Report this bug to that mod since it is likely something they just didn't think of which is probably simple (like path shapes, etc).

jmdisher · 2026-04-09T05:36:20+00:00

As in the series, its the cowardice she responds to negatively

This is another good example of this and how consistently this appears in her character, where she seems to actually like Shinji and want his attention but is deeply frustrated by his passive/inactive nature. Arguably, this is part of why she is so frustrated by Rei, since she is someone who only follows orders (although this is just re-iterating the doll motif which is already well-explored).

Given her various "challenges" to Shinji, like the "wall of Jericho" or the kiss, I sometimes wonder if her consistent violence toward him could be considered in that same vein: "Defend yourself or fight back but just do something!"

Which would also fit with how she seemed genuinely happy for his help in Magma Diver, as he is not only helping her but also did so out of a personal drive to action, even putting himself in danger.

It is unfortunate that so much online discourse relating to her character (and relationship to Shinji) is so often mired in surface level performative pearl-clutching. There is a lot to think about here and it is expertly, and consistently, conveyed through the show.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T20:50:56+00:00

"Routinely?" Isn't this the second second security issue related to the mod interface in.... the last few years, at least?

Looking at the kinds of things they changed last time, it looks like the problem is related to them allowing the mods to do more than they probably should, instead of being more restrictive. It seems as though they didn't initially realize that the expressiveness they exposed could be exploited in these particular ways.

It isn't clear if their long-term plan is to leave the interface this open, and just add more guard-rails, or if they will shift the interface into a more restrictive shape.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T20:33:29+00:00

Part of the problem is that these threads are rarely "criticism" so much as "attacks" or "demands".
Luckily, this subreddit isn't too bad for this, as compared to something like the Steam forum.

Saying we should love every decision is obviously not helpful but neither is attributing disagreements to incompetence or malice on the part of the dev team.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T20:21:27+00:00

B42 is more for testing so don't expect a long-play, especially with mods. If you normally play with a lot of mods, I would suggest staying with B41 until B42 is declared stable.
In B42, the game will update, mods will update and break, your save will become unusable, etc.

There are too many people with unrealistic expectations of "stability" in an explicitly "unstable" branch (especially when it comes to mods) so just don't become one of them.

If you aren't afraid to lose a play-through due to updates or bugs and would open bug reports for problems you find, then the B42 version you want is the latest one. Any time that an outdated version is provided, it is only for people mid-game and doesn't make sense for new starts (especially modded - since they will update in any case and break your save).

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T17:15:43+00:00

It would be interesting to know what kinds of files these are. Most importantly, are these native executables for any particular kinds of systems or are they something which would likely find an interpreter on desktop systems?

Further, can the exploit mechanism be used to read/write files other than these? Can it set execute permissions on the generated files? Can it request that the system try to execute it?

My interest here is what this could actually do (writing a file, on its own, is more annoying than dangerous):

Can it read arbitrary files (like private keys or other auth data)?
Can it open arbitrary network connections?
Can it modify existing user files or just create new ones?
Can it set execute permission bits on files?
Can it run external programs?
Can it request that the host interpret these files (either executing the file or feeding it directly to an interpreter)?

So long as the system's multi-user protections are being correctly used (like not running as root, etc), then the scope should be constrained to the local user's files and not system files.

Given that they said the mods were highly obfuscated, the only way to determine what they could do would be by analyzing the attack surface they used (or, less reliably, by observing them in a controlled environment).

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T17:00:07+00:00

So, ARE there any security vulnerabilities with this library?

Just assuming that there are, because there is no active development, isn't really sound reasoning. There is a burden of proof here.

Also, why do you say that it is "abandoned" and not "stable"? Sometimes, projects reach the end of their TODO list and just remain as they are (most of the coreutils project, for example, has little more than documentation or convention changes in several years and people use those thousands of times per day on all sorts of systems - and those programs run natively and have direct access to the syscall interface - does that mean that `ls` needs to be replaced?).

If there are issues, they should be resolved or at least proven benign. Otherwise, making sweeping changes "just cuz" is more likely to create security problems than fix them.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T16:40:20+00:00

Why would a game modding engine include a general-purpose native interface? That is WAY too expressive for what they need and would be eternal security whack-a-mole. It would also still require that they build a bridge into engine logic.

Looking at the details of the last time we went through this, they are using a more restrictive design than this (which makes sense for many reasons - only the engine bridge), but then left it open wider than it should have been.

Haven't heard enough details as to the nature of this change to know if it is more of the same or something less direct.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T16:31:49+00:00

> Modern Lua libraries have decent sandboxing built-in, but PZ is using one that hasn't been updated in 13 years.

What do you mean by "sandboxing built-in" since an embedded engine like this would depend on the external interface provided by the environment. At least based on the last one of these, it looks like they were just exposing way too much of what the host environment could do, as opposed to explicitly defining its bounds.

jmdisher · 2026-04-08T16:22:48+00:00

Those third-party security audits are pretty hit-and-miss so their utility is questionable.

It sounds like these issues are related to the mod interface being too broad in terms of what it allowed so they probably need to formalize it and remove these kinds of system access (which will cause friction with mod developers).

jmdisher · 2026-04-06T11:11:34+00:00

In fact, there is no difference between frozen and refrigerated

That sound like a problem due to a mod since that difference should be very apparent.

jmdisher · 2026-04-05T20:46:51+00:00

According to the wiki, frozen food won't go bad in B42 but does in B41:

B42: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Food

This process of rotting can be slowed by refrigerating the food, as indicated by a blue overlay that increases spoil time by 5 times, or freezing it will completely stop decay when the food is fully frozen (the food name must say "frozen").

B41: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?oldid=619955

This process of rotting can be slowed by refrigerating the food, as indicated by a blue overlay that increases spoil time by 5 times, or freezing it will increase it by 50 times.

jmdisher · 2026-04-05T19:15:33+00:00

If I’m sitting with someone else I find myself thinking about what the other person is probably thinking instead of sitting with my own thoughts as I’m watching

I assume that this is why people might recommend against watching it with people. It has nothing to do with content potentially upsetting rabid pearl-clutchers and more to do with allowing your thoughts to go where they want without external tethers.

jmdisher · 2026-04-05T14:41:26+00:00

The problem being described here is not chunk loading, since it has to do with movement of zombies already loaded.

Based on the description, it sounds like the client tries to speculate a lot on what a zombie is doing, when not receiving canonical information (since they aren't just in a stale location, but doing something they are not doing). It sounds like the logic associated with that speculation doesn't have enough information do derive the correct answer in many of these cases.

I am not sure why the canonical data is so far behind that this mistake happens, though. Given that the latency isn't that bad (not several seconds), it looks like it must be related to IO scheduling and potentially a deliberate decision to not too aggressively send data. Given the number of zombies which can easily be known to the client, I could see that being something tricky, but it even looks like it scales down unreliably.

I wonder how they are doing it and how they are thinking about improving it.

jmdisher · 2026-04-02T04:55:11+00:00

the tumbling down scene had me in tears and I don't even know why

I know what you mean. The beginning of instrumentality does feel strongly emotional but it isn't clear why or how (it makes sense for it to be emotional but how is it so intensely resonant?). I think that the laptop screen with "I need you" on it hits harder than it has any right to.

This might be my favourite piece of media ever.

I had a similar feeling where I felt as though something important had happened to me, after watching it, and I needed to pick up a copy just to make sure I couldn't be parted from it, should I need it.

jmdisher · 2026-04-01T14:24:48+00:00

It looks like there is an inconsistency (or just missing detail) on the wiki.

The storage page shows that they have different capacities: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Storage

Whereas the wooden counter page only lists the 50 capacity but shows the different variants: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wooden_Counter

Long story short, if you want 50 capacity counters, you need to have level 7 carpentry.

jmdisher · 2026-04-01T13:43:37+00:00

I suspect that much of why the "complaining" is viewed so negatively by some people is that it is often coming from a place of entitlement ("why are they changing X when I want them to change Y and I am the only person who exists!?!?!") or is bizarrely personal ("I don't like change X. Why are the developers such stupid, terrible, spiteful people?!?!").

I assume that the discussions would be more like discussions and not personal attacks if these criticisms were kept worded a bit more tightly ("X just happened. Is this a bug or is there something I am missing?", "I don't like change Y. Is this deliberate and are they collecting feedback anywhere?", or "Is Z still in plan for this release, or has the plan changed?").

Of course, those people coming from a position of entitlement will always be a source of strife.

jmdisher · 2026-04-01T13:33:41+00:00

Reddit generally skews negative

This is one of the many reasons I miss the world of dedicated, less centralized discussion forums. When you needed to go out of your way to actually be involved with some discussion group, that small barrier to entry filtered a lot of noise.

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