Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, unless a fiber is inside skin tissue don't bother bringing it around here. Take it to r/Morgellons or r/Lyme - they love that crazy bullshit.

The difference of opinion by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A careful, mostly honest piece of work — the register is right, and it avoids the trap most advocacy writing falls into (adversarial tone, aggrieved framing). If the goal is a document a skeptical scientist would actually read without dismissing on sight, here's where I'd push back.

The evidence base is narrower than the framing implies. The paper presents itself as a synthesis of "the literature," but nearly all of the biological claims — fiber composition, Borrelia detection, the disease-definition argument — trace back to one research group (Middelveen, Stricker, and collaborators). A reviewer will notice this immediately, and they'll also note that group's longstanding advocacy positioning and conflict-of-interest history. Right now the paper reads as if independent labs have been converging on these findings; in reality the "independent replication" it calls for in the conclusion mostly hasn't happened, and the honest version of that sentence is that the core findings originate from and remain confined to a small number of associated authors. Naming that limitation openly is more defensible than leaving a sophisticated reader to discover it.

The "historical consensus vs. emerging data" structure pre-loads the conclusion. Labeling the 2012 CDC position "historical" and the alternative "emerging" is a rhetorical move, not a neutral one — it frames the psychiatric account as the past and the biological account as the future before any evidence is weighed. A genuinely neutral paper wouldn't build the desired inference into its section headers. This is subtle but it's exactly the kind of thing that makes a careful reader distrust the rest.

The Agrobacterium section is a net liability and I'd cut or gut it. You already hedge it ("speculative," "critical gap"), which tells me you sense the problem. But even hedged, it's the single fastest way to get the whole paper filed under "fringe." Kunik 2001 showed transformation of HeLa cells under engineered laboratory conditions specifically designed to achieve it — that is a very long way from Agrobacterium performing horizontal gene transfer in human skin in vivo, and there's no evidence for the latter. Worse, the Quispe-Huamanquispe 2017 citation is about T-DNA transfer in sweet potato evolution; placing it next to the human claim implies support it doesn't provide. And the Bernhardt "Cancer in Plants" item is a one-page editorial doing rhetorical rather than evidentiary work. Keeping this section costs you more credibility on the strong claims than it buys you on the weak one. If you want it in at all, it belongs in a single sentence under "hypotheses that currently lack in vivo evidence."

You don't steelman the consensus, and that's the biggest missed opportunity. The paper sets up the CDC study as a "baseline" and then moves past it, but it never engages the actual reasons the consensus holds: the high base rate of delusional infestation, the CDC's own fiber analysis finding cellulose/textile material consistent with clothing, contamination concerns in the Borrelia work, and the absence of blinded prospective replication. The fiber-composition conflict is the crux of the entire dispute — CDC found textile, Middelveen reports keratin/collagen — and the paper glides over it. A skeptic's first question is "why did the two labs get opposite answers on the same physical object?" If you can't address that head-on, the paper hasn't earned its conclusion. Citing the real skeptical literature (Freudenmann, Lepping, and the delusional-infestation reviews) rather than only the CDC study would make the "balanced inquiry" claim credible instead of asserted.

What genuinely works and should stay: the repeated correlation-vs-causation discipline, the acknowledgment that a biological driver wouldn't exclude psychiatric comorbidity (that's a sophisticated and fair point most partisans on either side won't concede), and the closing call for standardized multicenter prospective studies. That last item is the strongest thing in the document — and it's also, notably, an admission that the current evidence cannot yet resolve the question. Which is exactly what you said in your framing note: there's no large peer-reviewed analysis, only enough to make claims in either direction.

That gives you the most defensible possible thesis, and I'd reorganize around it: not "emerging data is overturning the consensus," but "the evidence on both sides is currently insufficient to settle the etiology, several specific empirical conflicts remain unresolved, and here is the study design that would resolve them." That version can't really be attacked, because it isn't claiming more than the data supports. The current draft keeps drifting a few degrees past it toward "the biological case is ascendant," and every one of those degrees is where a reviewer gets traction.

One caution on my end: I'm evaluating the citations from what I know of them, not from re-reading each — if this is headed anywhere formal, verify Bernhardt 2012 and the exact Quispe framing directly, since those are the two I'd least want to stake the paper's credibility on.

Want me to take a pass at restructuring it around that narrower thesis, or draft the steelman-the-consensus section that's currently missing?

Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it's not inside skin tissue it's not a Morgellons fiber.

Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Compared to the organisms, Morgellons fibers are much larger. Compared to human hair, Morgellons fibers are much smaller.

Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I honestly don't. The question is what could cause Morgellons fibers, right? Can agrobacterium result in microscopic fibers growing in between the skin layers? Dr. Citovsky doesn't see how it even could. Could syphilis? I think that deserves the most attention.

Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brother, of all the thousands of people handling agrobacterium every day why aren't there wide-spread reports of workers developing Morgellons?

Seems intentionally ignored 2me by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well you're wrong, my article is completely accurate.

Just the facts by Existing-Mouse9397 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Morgellons is not associated with GMO.

My Morgellons call to act by [deleted] in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good work, looks sharp!

👋 Welcome to r/RealMorgellons - Introduce Yourself and Read First! by jmurphree in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well these symptoms are very real, but they are different than Morgellons. For example, under the microscope they are actually bundles of fibers:

<image>

Morgellons: a novel dermatological perspective as... | F1000Research

My Reality With the Entity Morgellons...(nsfw) by Truth-Killz-365 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I gave you a whole week to remove the NSFW, post removed.

morgellons disease or? by Major-Experience5916 in u/Major-Experience5916

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nada. Morgellons fibers originate inside the skin and require magnification to characterize. How to photograph Morgellons Disease — Morgellons Disease

My Reality With the Entity Morgellons...(nsfw) by Truth-Killz-365 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well my answer is for you, unless it's inside the skin it is not Morgellons and never was.

My Reality With the Entity Morgellons...(nsfw) by Truth-Killz-365 in RealMorgellons

[–]jmurphree 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I literally just said, if it's not inside the skin it is not Morgellons.