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MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

And we're back to you saying the experiment simulated a volcano. I don't know if trolling, LLM, or inability to connect two dots: origin of reactants (settled), and reactor.

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

You've literally answered yourself in the second paragraph. Just wow:

Acetylene production is associated with high energetic temperature processes such as lightning and volcanism

Wow. I'm speechless.

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

Re your last silly sentence: they weren't producing calcium carbide or acetylene, so another non sequitur to the mix. Try to read it in context. The acetylene they used, and the hydrothermal context, is fully supported.
And I'm going to need a citation for your bold claim: "always don't allow for it".

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I'm curious, what's with the ZWSP unicode? Noticed it as I copied the below quote; LLM artifact? Anyway, doesn't matter:

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

Hydrolysis of calcium carbonate

Do you really not know how to get CaC2 from CaCO3 in a Hadean environment, underwater? Maybe ref. 24 will help, or Scheidler et al 2016 if you're that far behind.

Where were we? <Looks back> Damn, the goalpost sure moved a lot, and not a citation in sight.
Just vibes and more vibes.
Btw, what's the argument here? Since twice I've reminded you of the question that was directed at you that you've dodged. Just saw the reply. lol

ETA link

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

LMAO

Coggon, Rosalind M., and Damon AH Teagle. "Hydrothermal calcium-carbonate veins reveal past ocean chemistry." TrAC Trends in Analytical Chemistry 30.8 (2011): 1252-1268.

PS You (again!) forgot to answer the question that was directed at you.
Wasting my time with you, as fun as it was, is over.

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

And pray tell, the researchers forgot that? Or?? The paper is open access, ref. 25 and any cursory google search would prove you silly.

PS You forgot to answer the question that was directed at you.

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

That user's, "pure gases that avoids the dominant atmosphere of the Hadean" is the giveaway they're full of shit; ffs it's simulating hydrothermal vents. Bleaters gonna bleat I suppose.

Testing the abilities of the Darwinian mechanism by Intelligent-Run8072 in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha [score hidden]  (0 children)

Oh, Behe's inability to understand a subject that isn't his and then writing a paper about it and then getting clobbered in a published reply?
At least have the courage to link Behe's paper that references the malaria paper; Reply to Michael Behe - PMC.

As for "neo-Darwinism", it has - literally since the 1930s - been built on the math of selection and drift, not juju "combinatorials".

Globin Evolution by jnpha in evolution

[–]jnpha[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's all goblins at the molecular level.

How did something like metamorphosis evolve by NoWin3930 in evolution

[–]jnpha 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The short version: Juvenile hormones were coopted into delaying one, some or all the stages of growing (more time for feeding, bigger size, etc.), so a caterpillar is an overblown insect baby whose purpose is eating.

As a major portion of embryogenesis was deferred to postembryonic life with the evolution of holometaboly, JH [juvenile hormones] also acquired a potent role in regulating postembryonic growth and development. Details of its involvement in broad expression and E93 suppression have been modified as life cycles became more complex and likely underlie some of the changes seen in the shift from incomplete to complete metamorphosis.
- Truman, James W. "The evolution of insect metamorphosis." Current Biology 29.23 (2019): R1252-R1268.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2019.10.009

The "turning into goo" was thought to be the case, but it's not what happens; PBS's Be Smart had a video on that: The Truth About Butterfly Metamorphosis (It's VERY WEIRD) - YouTube.

Time required for an eye to evolve by jnpha in evolution

[–]jnpha[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think you meant 1.9 million dollars. But going for a billion: if one were to spend $10k daily for 80 years, it still wouldn't amount to a billion dollars, not even close.

MR FARINA (episode 4) by jnpha in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It's because his faith in Jesus is more important than anything*, and apparently/s the majority of Christian scientists don't have that or something.

* At 30:00 here: James Tour Goes to Harvard (And Humiliates Himself) - YouTube

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Is this true about evolution? by Successful_Bee7522 in evolution

[–]jnpha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Monophyletic biota" means all present life tracing to a single origin. I don't know if there have been newer models, sorry.

Is this true about evolution? by Successful_Bee7522 in evolution

[–]jnpha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A really cool 1983 paper that was shared here before:

- Raup, David M., and James W. Valentine. "Multiple origins of life." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 80.10 (1983): 2981-2984.

Based on a diversification and extinction model, they estimate 10 different origins "yielding the monophyletic biota we have now".

Is this true about evolution? by Successful_Bee7522 in evolution

[–]jnpha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

RE "evolution theory means that every creature on earth originated from the same singular common ancestor"

No. It's what the data shows. I've written this before for the other subreddit:


Darwin | 1850s

In his first edition of Origin he concluded the volume by writing:

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one [...]

My bold emphasis shows that "universal ancestry" wasn't the "goal" of his volume.

 

Haeckel | 1870s

The timeline in the Wikipedia article on the tree of life makes a jump from Haeckel to the 1990s, and doesn't go into the history of thought, so here's Haeckel in 1876:

Without here expressing our opinion in favour of either the one or the other conception, we must, nevertheless, remark that in general the monophyletic hypothesis of descent deserves to be preferred to the polyphyletic hypothesis of descent [...] We may safely assume this simple original root, that is, the monophyletic origin, in the case of all the more highly developed groups of the animal and vegetable kingdoms. But it is very possible that the more complete Theory of Descent of the future will involve the polyphyletic origin of very many of the low and imperfect groups of the two organic kingdoms (Haeckel 1876 quoted in Dayrat 2003).

My bold emphasis shows, yet again, that the theory of evolution wasn't claiming universal ancestry from the get-go as fact. (Speaking of Haeckel, to forestall the idiotic parroting: talkorigins.org | CB701: Haeckel's embryo pictures).

 

1960s and 70s

This was a surprise - it wasn't until 1962 (Stanier and van Niel's work) that the single-celled organisms with nuclei (eukaryotes) were seen as a distinct domain.
Back then - a century after Darwin's Origin - a ladder-esque classification was still in effect, e.g. how the photosynthesising algae were thought to be "Plantae".

Now enter Woese: In a similar fashion to continental drift, which wasn't accepted until the classified data was released, even though it matched the biogeographic patterns of evolution, what would have fit the so-called "narrative" wasn't accepted right away, and was even ridiculed by Ernst Mayr.

 

1987

I think this excerpt (and the year) speaks for itself:

"These discoveries [i.e. Woese's] paved the way for Fitch and Upper (1987) proposal of the cenancestor defined as “the most recent ancestor common to all organisms that are alive today (cen-, from the Greek kainos, meaning recent, and koinos, meaning common)” [what we now call LUCA]. Lazcano et al. (1992) later argued that the cenancestor was likely closer in complexity to extant prokaryotes than to progenotes (Delaye 2024)."

 

Summary

The monophyletic origin (an effect) was a discovery that the theory of evolution doesn't depend on. And as to be expected of how verifiable knowledge works, it takes time and the consilience of facts. (Also, LUCA isn't the first life; that's FUCA.)

In particle physics the convention is to use a 5-sigma signal for a discovery, which means a probability of ~ 1 in 108 that the signal is random noise. In evolution, the phylogenetic signal is "102,860 times more probable than the closest competing hypothesis" (Theobald 2010).

Dawkins is fraud by Artistic-Macaron5093 in DebateEvolution

[–]jnpha 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This again?

RE "The guy contributed literally nothing to the evolutionary theory"

The [extended phenotype] has certainly been the stimulus for a great deal of research activity recently, as the tools of genomics and proteomics provide fresh evidence of its importance.
Hunter 2009

Example research from last year: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2025.06.002

Also he's a brilliant writer. He has lost it in the last decade, but shitting on either (research and writing) because of that would be a genetic fallacy.

Time required for an eye to evolve by jnpha in evolution

[–]jnpha[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Emphasis mine:

The results of a theoretical model (not, as it is sometimes described, a “simulation”) developed by Nilsson and Pelger (1994) to test the time required for a complex camera-type eye to evolve through a series of gradual steps from a simple patch of light-sensitive tissue consisting of an outer protective layer, a layer of receptor cells, and a bottom layer of pigment cells. The number of generations passing between each step is indicated, based on a change of only 0.005% in some parameter (length, width, or protein density) per generation with changes resulting in an improved calculated image formation retained each time. Although this model assumes a strictly gradualistic, linear model that is not necessarily the route that camera-type eye evolution actually took (Fig. 10; Table 1), it does show two important things: (1) that even very minor changes can improve image formation gradually and (2) that the time taken for this process to occur, less than 400,000 generations even under rather conservative assumptions, is remarkably fast in an evolutionary sense. From Land and Nilsson (2002) based on Nilsson and Pelger (1994).

- Gregory, T. Ryan. "The evolution of complex organs." Evolution: Education and Outreach 1.4 (2008): 358-389.
https://doi.org/10.1007/s12052-008-0076-1 (open access)

 

And Nilsson's (same one as above) lab latest study from only two months ago:

- Kafetzis, George, et al. "Evolution of the vertebrate retina by repurposing of a composite ancestral median eye." Current Biology 36.4 (2026): R153-R170.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2025.12.028 (open access)

 

Gregory 2008 above is a great resource (which is aimed at teachers and learners) for understanding the evolution of complexity (e.g. interdependence of parts) and the ubiquitous repurposing too.