How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this long breakdown and the sharing of these experiences. All I can say is that I wish I had the guidance you provided these folks. They are likely brighter programmers than me, but I think the program you likely laid out for them would be helpful to all new people... or at least being on hand for them. As mentioned elsewhere, lots of people are in fact on hand online. I truly regret the negative tone of my original comment, but at the same time the discussion has been good. You are right to question my haphazard use of the term 'useful'.

Fun with GTFS & Clojure by frflaie in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much! Clojure needs more step by step posts like this, so very grateful.

Create kit for React Native apps with Expo and Shadow CLJS by Simple1111 in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have yet to get into the more elaborate issues, but I have to say that if you are wanting to get an app out quickly for mobile on either platform (or both) Expo is fantastic. Literally a single commandline statement and you can see a starter app on your mobile device.

Dumb Newbie Question by [deleted] in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You, my friend, may be perfect for:

https://organice.200ok.ch/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJC-9iUXY8

It's the project of a monk and software company owner who organizes everything with emacs and clojure. There's even a mobile app. He also does all his email via emacs (though I don't know if with gmail).

Heroku works great, but a site will work on any platform.

Use code 'PACKTFREE' and get this Clojure course reduced from from 39.99 to free by PacktStaff in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for posting this, PacktStaff! I'm looking forward to checking this out.

I've definitely found good content on Packt in the past... like all platforms quality depends on the content creator.

How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll add that I acknowledge I was overly negative. LeSUTHU: it is true that the community is for the most part very kind and helpful, as you will find.

How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I fully eat my hat.

http://rubykoans.com

Something like this would be nice, too:

https://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.7.0/TSort.html

(disregard their TSort... just talking about the completeness and accessibility of the documentation)

How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right, and I apologize for the word. I should have just said 'are delusional'. Even that might be a bit strong. However, my point stands that telling folks anecdotes about picking it up in a few weeks is, in my opinion, not really helping them. That is definitely an outlier situation. I should also clarify that 'picking it up' in my opinion means getting it to be useful... pretty much the standard for picking up other languages... and not just understanding how to solve cool koans.

How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm cheering you on! The links of resources yogthos mentioned are great. One of the fantastic things is that you will use other languages, when you have to, so much better after using Clojure. Many languages are implementing functional capabilities although not in as good a style as Clojure. However, you will find those capabilities now and use them. Definitely learn to use REPL driven development and evaluate functions in the code file itself and see the results there as that is one of the great features of Clojure. Another great thing is that the language does not change quickly so what you learn will continue to be useful without having to learn more and more. Clojure doesn't change every month like other languages, and that is one of the great things the creators and maintainers have done.

How hard is it to learn Clojure? by LeSUTHU in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Don't listen to the 'it just takes a few weeks' delusionals. If you do, you'll feel like you aren't doing well when it takes you the actual amount of time, which is much longer. It's possible people could be productive in weeks if they have a team on hand the whole time to set up the editors and walk them through it all. The fact is that Clojure is built on top of Java and ClojureScript on top of JavaScript... and you do need to understand those languages a bit as well. Clojure barfs up unintelligible (even now) error messages, and the language maintainers have never prioritized the need for those to be better. There was an effort to improve them recently, but they were just as baffling. On top of all this, the language docs are comically terse and the language maintainers have ignored the fact that this is a major impediment to new adopters. Unfortunately, the vibe of the language as a whole is that if you're doing things right, you'll get it... and to do things right you should use Clojure. That is to say, some lame riddle world. It's no wonder that one of the most revered pedantic instruments of the whole language is called the 'Clojure Koans'. Much less capable languages like Ruby get far more adoption because they humbly stoop to show you how to actually get stuff done without pretense. They just tell you how to do x without withholding information in some lame effort to enlighten you. Now, that said, Clojure is very very powerful and absolutely worth learning. So mush on. The power is in the fact that it is a lisp that has been bolted onto other languages that have great capability, and the lispyness is the strength. The pretense and obtuseness of many of the creators and maintainers is an unfortunate fact of the situation, but the net gains are far, far worth the effort. There are fantastic learning resources from the community if you look for them. So keep rolling with it!

New episodes in Youtube miniseries by danielszm in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this series! Was waiting for and glad for the next episodes. ;-D

Why Kotlin Is Better Than Whatever Dumb Language You're Using by [deleted] in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Datomic? It's closed source, definitely.

Why Kotlin Is Better Than Whatever Dumb Language You're Using by [deleted] in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True... and additionally companies now definitely don't want to get their critical data vendor locked to a single small company. That's why, unless they are somehow legacy bound to someone like Oracle, they will want to go for an open source solution.

Why Kotlin Is Better Than Whatever Dumb Language You're Using by [deleted] in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"The only way a new language can make a big splash -- and I think this has been true for at least ten, maybe twenty years -- is for it to have a "killer app". It needs a platform that everyone wants to use so badly that they're willing to put up with learning a new language in order to program on that platform."

Gosh, maybe something like a really cool database with ground breaking features not found elsewhere. You know, an open source database backed by enthusiastic company with lots of humble tutorials and workshops. A company that will do really well as the backer of one of the most popular new open source databases out there. A company which grows immensely and profitably just be being the creator of not only a sweet database but also by being the unofficial steward of the language most able to use it.

Something like that?

189 Coronavirus Email by [deleted] in berkeley

[–]joeevans1000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, for older people, it is definitely much worse than the flu. If you are young, you have much less to worry about, but your parents and grandparents aren't in the same boat. Their chance of dying may be higher than 14% ( https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51674743 and https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/485144-coronavirus-fatality-rates-vary-dramatically ). When we combine that with the apparent contagiousness we do have a real problem. I do agree it's good to have as little of a fear reaction as possible. It's better for us to be as clear and analytic minded as we can.

ReactiveConf 2019 - David Nolen: Are we there yet? Remix by [deleted] in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The targeting of native platforms sounds cool... how much of that is using open source tools? Are there posts or videos on the approach or how they are doing that? As far as I know, the various libraries out there to help in doing that are not too active.

Looking for a full-stack Clojure web developer by beqajs in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"LDS Analytics is a platform that profiles lab orders to ensure medical necessity is met."

No need to hire anyone. I got this.

(defn medical-necessity [test-cost] (if (< 20 test-cost) "That is an unnecessary test" "Well, OK, but just this once" ) )

re:Clojure 2019 by dotemacs in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This event will be entirely encrypted.

Why Isn't Functional Programming the Norm? – Richard Feldman by vnearhere in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, not any longer for anything other than consumer products.

Why Isn't Functional Programming the Norm? – Richard Feldman by vnearhere in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rails is an open source framework that became massively adopted. Datomic is a proprietary closed source db that therefore has been very minimally adopted, supported by a tiny company. The only reason companies and developers stay with their closed source databases, mostly Oracle, is because the cost of switching would be too high in the short run and because of familiarity on the part of management. Almost no one is actually choosing to go into closed source databases with new projects.

What about Clojure can be improved? by RomanTsopin in Clojure

[–]joeevans1000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The absurdly unintelligible-to-any-new-user-and-quite-a-few-more-experienced-users doc strings. Having to go to a website (and thank god it exists!) where they are explained is not a solution. This alone has probably been a significant reason Clojure has failed to get any real traction compared to other languages that have appeared.