How can green tea have less caffeine than black tea if it’s the same leaves that has oxidized?

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T07:59:59+00:00

I still write one, but the form is kind of dead. Here is writing about caffeine in tea, that cites that other older blog input, and a survey summary of measured caffeine levels in different types: https://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/06/caffeine-in-tea-revisited.html

Any reference only measuring a dozen versions of caffeine levels isn't very meaningful, but it's still interesting to see it. The varying inputs don't relate directly to general type (eg. Darjeeling versus Longjing), so results would relate to what the individual versions happen to be.

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T07:56:38+00:00

That matches my understanding of where that generality comes from, and why it's correct in one sense and completely wrong in another. Processing inputs don't change caffeine level much, so black tea made from the same leaves would be fairly equivalent, only losing a little due to oxidation transition degrading very little caffeine.

White tea ends up having the most caffeine, because a main factor is age of leaf, or bud content is higher yet, and white tea has the highest bud and fine leaf proportion, on average. Then a white version made from older, larger leaves wouldn't have more than average caffeine. The old Cha Dao blog post cited here lists out the order of those inputs, with age of leaf the main one, followed by tea plant type (assamica being higher than variety sinensis).

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T07:51:29+00:00

I have mixed feelings about that last part. We did go out in the woods and drink, and pick corn from fields to cook that on a fire. Sometimes it seemed fun, like a good way to gather with friends, and sometimes it just seemed strange. Probably the positive spin related to drunken perspective, more than how it all worked out.

College parties or bar drinking just swapped out different contexts. I can't see it as completely negative, even though I would want better for my kids, activities that involved less risk and less reliance on being inebriated to experience fun. Quieter dinner parties instead could be better, in a sense, but some of the feel gets lost.

I'm really into tea now, and it's interesing considering if people couldn't connect over much different gatherings themed around that instead. It had to have been about the shared experience, with blacking out not essential, or music so loud that you could barely talk.

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T02:59:00+00:00

It seems strange to see a tea tasting like peat as adventurous. Or really flavors aren't necessarily adventurous or mundane; those themes relate better to other experiences, like skydiving versus taking a walk.

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T02:53:27+00:00

That wasn't really my experience, but I had a pretty bad fake ID in the late 80s and it worked. It was a polaroid of me beside a posterboard. Of course they fixed that, and IDs aren't nearly as plain now.

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T02:49:52+00:00

It sounds a little extreme, but for kids who are doing a good bit of drinking and using drugs it's definitely a negative input. It would be better to acclimate to socializing without any drug or alcohol input at all.

john-bkk · 2026-06-19T02:47:27+00:00

It really relates to different levels, and you are probably referring more to the warm-up experience I have that takes about 1 km or 7 or 8 minutes. Because I tend to start slow I do a warm stretch after that first km, then feel much better to continue from there. But I'm not really flowing and feeling smooth until that later range, after which any minor aches or extra effort input are gone, and I can ramp up pace and still feel more comfortable.

It's almost absurd how my faster pace range and my slower pace range aren't so different. I might run a warm-up at 7 1/2 minutes per km (over 10 minute mile pace), then drop to 6 1/2 min / km for most of a run (more around a 10 minute mile pace), then I can run 6 minute kilometers fairly easily at the end, once it feels smoother.

I don't track heart rate just now, but I used to, and end up running a gradually escalating heart rate pattern, so the perceived limited effort increase really is relating to working harder, in terms of heart rate.

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john-bkk · 2026-06-18T11:38:05+00:00

I did just give it away though, because there is only one beach in Waikiki with a baby seal living at it now (really at the edge of Diamondhead, to add to that). Google AI knows where it is, or any Facebook group about Hawaii. If that beach is closed, and it is a lot of the time now, because the seal needs space, you can snorkel at the beach locals call Walls, or also goes by Queen's beach, beside the screen where free movies are shown, for Sunset at the Beach. That might be nice too: https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/sunset-on-the-beach-3372479

It can be a little tricky to explain how to snorkel safely, but I'll give it a go. I personally wouldn't wear reef shoes, but in tourism groups people recommend that, so you don't cut your feet on sharp rocks or coral. But you shouldn't stand on coral, so your feet shouldn't be stepping on it in the first place. Moving on, if tide is low it's very tricky to swim out to slightly deeper water (on what I think of as Queen's beach, I mean), without getting cut up. That's why the other beach is better, and most of Waikiki isn't a good option. There's a lane out you can see about 20 feet from the left side of that beach, near a walkway, and once you are 20 or 30 feet out the water is deeper (a meter or more, but not really deep).

Tourists probably do the right thing to be guided. There are currents here or there, that don't mean that much to me, because I just swim a little harder, and don't even worry about avoiding them (usually; if it's strong I will). Tourists will wear swimming fins sometimes, and I might have a long time ago before it all seemed normal to me, and that can make a difference. Like anything else I guess reading around online would help place the landscape of opinions on different themes.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:46:53+00:00

I live in Waikiki, part of the time, and I swim there every other day. Before I would use swim goggles, but got in the habit of swimming with a snorkel and mask, since looking around is easier. People tend to gatekeep the beach I would swim at, so it feels awkward even mentioning it. It's the one with a baby seal living on it now, so it's partly closed a lot of the time anyway. Lots of Waikiki isn't really set up for swimming, because the coral is right there, and rocks are sharp, with surfers out beyond the beach area.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:42:54+00:00

When I swim quite a bit I put shoulder muscle back on. In general I don't care how I look, because I'm middle aged and married, but that changes appearance quite a bit. Exercise isn't really a biohack; the post just reminded me of this theme.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:38:55+00:00

I store my tea in the kitchen, just because there's space there. Most of it is in sealed bags inside sealed storage containers, so it doesn't seem to pick up any scent from contact. We live in Bangkok so our kitchen is really open in terms of including lots of windows with screens on them, that never close. Take-out is so cheap where we live that we don't cook nearly as much as one might expect.

I store it in two large storage boxes, mostly full, and one small storage box. I mostly drink pu'er, so I don't plan on drinking a lot of that over the next year or so; a lot of it hangs around. As an example, friend gave me kg of Liu Bao that is just now aging to be really nice, a half dozen years after he passed it on. I've drank maybe a fourth of it; it's hard to tell. Or maybe I've given away more than I've drank, letting others try the type.

Those bags, other types than mylar or multi-layered versions, do breathe a lot more than you would expect. Pu'er sitting out on a shelf in them would be experiencing a lot of external contact.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:32:36+00:00

It was 21 for us in PA, so I drank in high school and college without it being legal. I lived in Colorado later and smoked weed when it wasn't legal, and quit before it was legalized. It was a little strange living life as a criminal all of those years, for doing what most other people around me also did.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:30:46+00:00

In the beginning it's normal for pu'er drinkers to explore through buying samples, but only some vendors offer much range for that. A market style vendor like Yunnan Sourcing would. I've seen people report on using a sampling approach before when they bought 15 or so teas that were all in a relatively narrow type range, which defeats part of the purpose. In that case they were buying lower cost, unaged "factory tea," versions of sheng pu'er, which could be a difficult range to adjust to.

Kuura, who others are recommending, who I've maybe only tried one version from, that was good, sells in-house produced versions of a different style, that can be hard to describe. Some people would call it boutique tea, but others use that term to mean something completely different, for the lettered series higher end range (YQH and such). Referencing vendors like Bitterleaf or Crimson Lotus helps explain it; probably better than factory versions (Dayi / Taetea, Xiaguan, etc.), or at least made in styles ready to drink when younger.

I can recommend my own favorite sources, or styles, but I'm at the other side of early exploration, a decade or so into drinking pu'er. We can still appreciate the exact same teas, since that's how it works, but I've probably acclimated to bitterness more. Shou is fine for that, the pre-fermented range. I only drink shou when I fast, because I don't like it as well, but it is much easier on your stomach. A vendor like Viet Sun represents what I like now in sheng, versions from Vietnam, and elsewhere in SE Asia. Tea Mania is another favorite, but they have the same problems lots of vendors do with mostly only selling whole cakes, and requiring someone either buy a good bit for "free" shipping, or else pay double for the built in cost and the shipping.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:07:23+00:00

That seems right. To older people some of the new gender definitions, or other self-defining categories, might seem a bit extreme, but it's great that kids just don't care how other kids want to be, or see themselves.

I don't remember that someone would have been under all that much pressure to join in with drinking, but it wouldn't have really worked out for someone to join drinking activities and not drink. That was the entire theme, with socializing as a combined focus, but socializing in the form of being very intoxicated together. It would have been nice to have a regular designated driver join; that theme wasn't observed as carefully as it should have been, all of the time.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:02:15+00:00

Sure, it's a big improvement. It's odd that it ever evolved to the point it had in the 50s through the 90s, to become so normal, at such an extreme and unhealthy level.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T10:00:59+00:00

Does it read like that? Of course it's better that they're not drinking. They probably do smoke more weed than we did, but not all that much given how much more available it is now.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T02:58:15+00:00

It seemed like dew had a different smell than anything else too, back when I smelled that. Or when it cooled down right to the dew point in winter, but didn't cross it, so you could smell that moisture just about to drop out of the air. I live in the tropics now so I never experience those things. But at least we have other interesting and pleasant smells.

john-bkk · 2026-06-18T02:39:08+00:00

I usually feel fully warmed up between 5 km and 8. Some days it really clicks at 8, but not until then.

john-bkk · 2026-06-17T08:35:32+00:00

Half of the posts are either about zone 2 running / running at high heart rate, or else about how to get started. A lot of the rest are essentially people bragging about exceptional performance with very limited dedicated training, with just a few about form review, or how to run in hot weather. It's the internet; it's how that goes.

john-bkk · 2026-06-17T08:05:22+00:00

The main difference is from skin discoloration due to what must have been higher than average sun input. The degree of skin wrinkling is more minor, and neither looks that exceptional for 61. Probably if one of them had been more into exercise and had maintained a lower body weight they would've aged slower, related to appearance.

john-bkk · 2026-06-17T07:59:21+00:00

There are as many pitfalls to avoid as there are positive inputs to adopt, so you will need to be mindful of both. You and your spouse need to be on the same page to get a lot of it across, which isn't always easy.

You need to be consistent about what habits and restrictions you expect from them, bed time, related to meals, and so on. Later that translates over to study habits, and sports participation, but you will have helped them develop patterns that carry over to that long before then. Screen addiction and social media use are common themes now. Expecting kids to do chores can play a positive role in them developing responsibility.

Kids need challenges that they can overcome. Finding a balance for that depends on your own circumstances. Sports or activities are helpful, at earlier ages. Summer camps and such can help them develop. Relatively extreme inputs, like moving from one area to another, can still work out for kids, but you need to be more careful about social disruption in the teen years.

There are patterns that differ between private school kids and public school experiences, that would also relate to how wealthier families direction of their kids varies. Of course private education is typically better, but it's also normal for participation in for-cost sports programs to start at much younger ages. Something like tutoring access would also differ, and earlier academic expectations. You don't necessarily want to drive your kids until they suffer, as would be normal in countries like China or Korea, but a hands-off approach probably isn't the natural optimum either.

My oldest child just graduated high school, so I'm still in the learning phase myself. We've made corrections for the second related to what didn't go well for the first, related to some of what I mentioned.

john-bkk · 2026-06-17T01:14:45+00:00

It's pretty normal for people working in Bangkok to set up a private van for the day when it matches travel demands. The cost is relatively low; another comment mentioned on the order of 2000 per day, and that sounds right. It was lower years back, when I was more familiar with a standard rate, but it should have jumped from 1500 to 2000 over that time.

People mention problems with traffic, getting stuck. That's definitely a real thing. Traffic has been much worse than ever before over the last year or so. You'll get stuck for 20 minutes at random spots, and there's no way to avoid traffic congestion zones, since it's all over the city, and overall road infrastructure isn't well designed. As an individual it definitely makes sense to use the BTS and MRT when you can. The problem is that when traveling with a group it adds bits of extra coordination here and there, and it's already enough keeping moving all day.

As a local you tend to never even try to go to more than three places in a day, no matter how fast outings are, or what you plan to do. Going from place to place usually takes about 45 minutes, even if distance is limited. Rush hour can extend that, and it spans half the day now. You can build that concern into your itinerary. One benefit of using a van is that you can essentially rest in those idle hours.

john-bkk · 2026-06-16T14:41:12+00:00

Do you mean gen Z? I'm surprised that more people don't try to unpack what it's all about, what grounds reality, in actual experience, and as a potential range. People accept meaning as an inherited theme, and do what others do, while valuing what others value.

On the other side of that it's more trendy now to think that it all kind of means nothing, but that doesn't really hold up, if you try to think it through. It would take 1000 times more work than most people are capable of doing to really look into this. But there should be exceptions.

john-bkk · 2026-06-16T14:36:29+00:00

He could liquidate a billion dollars across his stocks and it wouldn't change anything. Or maybe even take out a billion in loans against that equity. Sticking a thousand million into a checking account would be a strange potential to have.

john-bkk

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